Do other players affect the outcome?
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At Baccarat, it's another story. I tend to be the only one in the room winning at Bacc. so it comes down to "Who do I trust? ME!" and not wanting to be influenced by other players. You have some big bet ready for the Bank and some punk comes along and tosses a hundred on the Player, or some player who hasn't won a hand in the last five puts an even bigger bet on the Bank before you place yours, and it's hard for such events, especially as they pile up, to not affect your play.
So if possible I try to play earlier in the day before the high limit room fills with the drunks and other high rollers who seem to be there just to dump as much money as possible in as short a time as possible.
After all, Who put this thing together?
Quote: MDawgYou have some big bet ready for the Bank and some punk comes along and tosses a hundred on the Player, or some player who hasn't won a hand in the last five puts an even bigger bet on the Bank before you place yours, and it's hard for such events, especially as they pile up, to not affect your play.
Explain.
Quote: MDawgIn blackjack, I used to think that other players misplaying basic strategy affect the outcome but I've realized for some time that they do not, it's just another card exposed to keep track of for purposes of the count and flow. Other players no longer affect me whatsoever at the BJ player. I just do my thing.
At Baccarat, it's another story. I tend to be the only one in the room winning at Bacc. so it comes down to "Who do I trust? ME!" and not wanting to be influenced by other players. You have some big bet ready for the Bank and some punk comes along and tosses a hundred on the Player, or some player who hasn't won a hand in the last five puts an even bigger bet on the Bank before you place yours, and it's hard for such events, especially as they pile up, to not affect your play.
So if possible I try to play earlier in the day before the high limit room fills with the drunks and other high rollers who seem to be there just to dump as much money as possible in as short a time as possible.
After all, Who put this thing together?
Tiger, you play Baccarat but I don't know if you win regularly at it. I do. I simply do better when I am alone and making my own decisions versus having other players at the table: players who tend to be losing but will influence your betting decision, since Baccarat is not a forced bet game, you may decide to bet or not to bet, and then of course you pick which side to bet on. So obviously what other players do or don't do may influence you psychologically. I mean, you really want to bet the Bank and some guy comes in and tosses four five thousand dollar chips on Player, it shouldn't make any difference, but it does. Or someone tosses a small bet opposing you and it just throws you off.
As an aside, what I like about Bacc is that in Baccarat unlike BJ, you either win by the points or lose by the points, there is no busting, and especially, there is no situation where you bust and the dealer also busts but you still lose (which is part of the house advantage in BJ, the other being the ace on the bottom BJ). Plus also the fact that you may sit there and not even bet every hand, you may ask for as many free hands as you wish, or just bet the table minimum until you really want to bet.
While I ended up losing, it just shows how such small players can mess up the game.
Then you could watch me play Baccarat. In between your scrounging for free play, that is.
This last trip a friend of mine was visiting Vegas and came to see me play Baccarat, he said he "wanted to see the Master in action." I was a little worried about it actually, I thought what if he comes on one of those rare nights when I lose. I won over five K, easily, just while he was at the table, and then we got up and left. That was good. Maybe you'll arrive on a night when I'm killing the house BIG.
Quote: MDawgDark why don't you take the bus to Vegas, you're one of the few people on here whom I'd not be opposed to meeting, there are others, I like the Wiz of course, and TigerWu, and some others.
Then you could watch me play Baccarat. In between your scrounging for free play, that is.
This last trip a friend of mine was visiting Vegas and came to see me play Baccarat, he said he "wanted to see the Master in action." I was a little worried about it actually, I thought what if he comes on one of those rare nights when I lose. I won over five K, easily, just while he was at the table, and then we got up and left. That was good. Maybe you'll arrive on a night when I'm killing the house BIG.
Scrounging for freeplay has a better chance of succeeding.
and I would never take the bus from NY to Vegas. I would fly lol
....To verify my stories.Quote: MDawgI simply do better when I am alone and making my own decisions versus having other players at the table:
I volunteer the Wizard to watch you play the big limits Back and win like you claim. I'll contact him and direct him to this thread.Quote: MDawgDark why don't you take the bus to Vegas, you're one of the few people on here whom I'd not be opposed to meeting, there are others, I like the Wiz of course, and TigerWu, and some others.
Then you could watch me play Baccarat. In between your scrounging for free play, that is.
This last trip a friend of mine was visiting Vegas and came to see me play Baccarat, he said he "wanted to see the Master in action." I was a little worried about it actually, I thought what if he comes on one of those rare nights when I lose. I won over five K, easily, just while he was at the table, and then we got up and left. That was good. Maybe you'll arrive on a night when I'm killing the house BIG.
Quote: MDawgDark why don't you take the bus to Vegas, you're one of the few people on here whom I'd not be opposed to meeting, there are others, I like the Wiz of course, and TigerWu, and some others.
Then you could watch me play Baccarat. In between your scrounging for free play, that is.
This last trip a friend of mine was visiting Vegas and came to see me play Baccarat, he said he "wanted to see the Master in action." I was a little worried about it actually, I thought what if he comes on one of those rare nights when I lose. I won over five K, easily, just while he was at the table, and then we got up and left. That was good. Maybe you'll arrive on a night when I'm killing the house BIG.
I hope you wouldn't be opposed to meeting me, even though I have sparred with you a bit. I would be fascinated to watch you play, actually. I always meet up with various/random WoV members. In Austin. In Dublin! In Niagara Falls. In North Carolina. When I next go to Vegas if our trips coincide .....?
t does NOT influence results, it influences resolve. if you have been winning and following your decisions, it is hard to make a modest bet on your choice when some walks up and puts five grand on the line for the opposite choice.Quote: GandlerHow would other player bets influence baccarat results?
I recall a thread here about superstitions, and I came in and posted that no superstition affects anything unless you allow it to. But, in the end, most of us do allow superstitions to affect us, and in the same way we are often affected by the play of others.
Quote: sabreI hate those roving bands of punks in public casinos that sit in open table spots and bet their own money. They should be the first ones up against the wall when the revolution comes.
Sabre you would be surprised how many players argue, convincingly, that such "roving bands of punks" are shills. I don't believe it, but the fact that many high rollers do believe it is food for thought. Ever seen "The Cooler"? such casino shills did use to exist. I don't think they exist anymore, but others would disagree. Did Coolers ever really cool the cards? of course not, but still, they existed as casino shills.
SooPoo I don't particularly recall any sparring between us so it must not have been very vitriolic, and in any case I didn't ban you I still see your posts so whatever you have to post I must consider worthwhile.
Shills were commonly used to 'open' tables and get the action going early. Shills were NEVER used as closers
Quote: MDawgSo obviously what other players do or don't do may influence you psychologically. I mean, you really want to bet the Bank and some guy comes in and tosses four five thousand dollar chips on Player, it shouldn't make any difference, but it does. Or someone tosses a small bet opposing you and it just throws you off.
I see what you're saying, but then this logic could be applied to literally any game.
Quote: MDawgDark why don't you take the bus to Vegas, you're one of the few people on here whom I'd not be opposed to meeting, there are others, I like the Wiz of course, and TigerWu, and some others.
I won't be in Vegas again until next Spring sometime, but I might take you up on that offer if our schedules align...
You're playing blackjack, you place your bet. The guy next to you bets - whatever. Once you have gotten over the fallacy that his play affects the long term outcome of the shoe, and accept that all that really matter are the count and flow of the cards, it doesn't take much if any effort to just play your game. It's you against the dealer. Your cards won't be the same as the other players' anyway.
But Baccarat, you're three banks into a progression and have been pressing your bet. Now some guy who is at your table looks at the prior play and decides for whatever reason that the bank isn't going to go any more. Or say, he never thought it was going to go past one anyway, and has been betting against the Bank the whole time. It's easy to say that such actions won't affect you, but they will. At a minimum it might make you back down on your press. Anyway, right or wrong all I will say is that when I have really cleaned up the most on long bank runs, long player runs or long chops, I've been either the biggest player at the table, or alone. When you're talking about a game where people may bet against each other, it always affects your resolve in some way.
Some Bacc. players even come in there and plead with you not to bet against them, or turn it into a testosterone contest. None of that is conducive to clear decision making, especially for someone like me who tends to win at Baccarat and doesn't want to be influenced by losers.
I don't really play Craps anymore, but the table is cheering, everyone's winning, pass after pass, and some bozo comes in and tosses a nickel on the Don't. You're telling me that doesn't put a damper on things?
Quote: MDawg
But Baccarat, you're three banks into a progression and have been pressing your bet. Now some guy who is at your table looks at the prior play and decides for whatever reason that the bank isn't going to go any more. Or say, he never thought it was going to go past one anyway, and has been betting against the Bank the whole time. It's easy to say that such actions won't affect you, but they will. At a minimum it might make you back down on your press. Anyway, right or wrong all I will say is that when I have really cleaned up the most on long bank runs, long player runs or long chops, I've been either the biggest player at the table, or alone. When you're talking about a game where people may bet against each other, it always affects your resolve in some way.
I don't play bacc that way. If I want to bet on bank, I will, and same with player. I don't press, though, I just flat bet. If other players at the table are giving me crap for it, I would either ignore them or just leave. But like I said, I uphold the same principles no matter what the game is. If I want to bet on black at roulette, I will, even if 20 other people at the table are betting red.
Listen, if you were playing a coin toss truly 50-50, no house edge, would you expect to ever win anything flat betting? So how could you win anything flat betting with a house edge in place.
Of course, what gamblers who have never won at Baccarat will never understand is that Baccarat is not the same as a coin toss, roulette wheel, craps roll - the cards are fixed and if you have a good shoe, you may really clean the house out. It would be like if the slots wheels were fixed to follow a certain pattern and simply by happening to show up at a certain time you would be guaranteed a big win, versus each slots pull being an entirely independent event. You routinely hear of millions won in Baccarat, happens every week in the big casinos, you don't hear about that happening much in BJ, craps or roulette.
Quote: MDawg
Listen, if you were playing a coin toss truly 50-50, no house edge, would you expect to ever win anything flat betting? So how could you win anything flat betting with a house edge in place.
I don't gamble to win. I gamble for entertainment.
I just wouldn't find losing money entertaining, however it happened. Of course, the casino industry is built around delivering fantasies in exchange for YOUR risked money, but I see through all that and would quit if it ever got to be net negative. Not saying I need to win every time, but as long as I'm ahead I'll keep at it, and not fix what isn't broken as far as my methods.
Quote: FleaStifft does NOT influence results, it influences resolve. if you have been winning and following your decisions, it is hard to make a modest bet on your choice when some walks up and puts five grand on the line for the opposite choice.
That makes no sense to me.
If somebody is such a large player and is bothered by other players, ask for a private table?
But, it should not effect resolve unless I am missing something? Other bets laid down should be irrelevant?
BTW private table is for those with a minimum $500K line (at some casinos $250K will do it). I am not there, nor would want to be. I do fine with my $50K lines.
And also BTW, some of those private table players are so superstitious that they won't allow anyone to stand behind them or even watch when they are playing. I'm not like that, by any means, but I just prefer to play alone.
And also, these days I am not necessarily the big player if you read my posts carefully you'd understand that this is part of the problem. The big player gets to open the cards. The smaller players generally follow the big player, although there are some punks, as mentioned, who toss a single black chip on an opposing bet just because. I don't follow anyone, I do my own thing, but opposing bets and inability to open the cards myself, and stop and go action as the game slows down due to drunks, usually do not inure to my benefit.
In fact I had this sequence of cards that last night on the last trip (the night where I started the late morning up about 60K over all for the entire trip, ended the night dumping 36K, leaving me at plus 24K for the entire trip) where I could have ended up FAR ahead but didn't bet right, and it might have been partly due to another player's stepping in. There was a sequence when it went Bank Bank Player Player for over ten hands in a row, five sets, just so easy 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2. I bet every single hand once I got it, and won for a thousand a hand, which was ten grand, but after the first few this guy stepped in and plopped a five thousand chip on the same side, no big deal, didn't affect me after all he was betting with me, but he actually said to me, "If you bet ten thousand, you can open." It was more of a good natured taunt, than anything else, but in this case he was actually Right, I was betting far too low during a sequence when the shoe was mirror perfect. He bet only the one hand, won, and left, but while he was gone and I was winning a K a hand I kept telling the pit boss, "I'm saving the casino money," and he'd reply each time, "We appreciate it." It was like an inane Abbott and Costello routine. As this was going on I really knew that I was being none too smart and needed to step it up, even a few K per hand, which would have placed me far enough ahead to quit for the session ahead for the day, but instead I kept playing the same single K stupidly, winning ten grand but ending up not far enough ahead to call it a day (not quite at where I started the day), which in the long run ended up causing my demise for that session, because later during a different shoe when the shoe was horrible I bet big and lost repeatedly, and finally just gave up and quit.
This was a session where a friend of mine who was playing at an adjoining table later claimed with conviction that "it was all fake" that all the other players had been shills, but he's a conspiracy theorist I don't buy any of that. The reason I lost that night was due to player error, I bet big when the shoe s*cked, and played small when the shoe was easy and following easy to follow patterns. And part of the reason was due to confusion from series of weird high betting players who kept coming in and throwing money around randomly, mostly losing but also sometimes even winning a few big hands in a row.
I know I play best alone, I mean I had WEEKS of sessions playing more or less alone where I walked away ahead EVERY SINGLE TIME. There were a few sessions where I won even playing with others, but for the most part the presence of the moths circling my light is detrimental. None of those other players is winning, so why would I want to be around them.
Again, if you are a Craps player and understand the analogy of the table is cheering, pass after pass is happening, and some bozo comes along and throws a nickel on the Don't, then you would get part of what I am getting at, Baccarat-wise.
Also, how much did that plot of real estate in maxpens head cost?,;)(
Ask a silly Q get a silly A.
Scrounging for loose change under the bus seats has a better chance of sucsess.Quote: darkozScrounging for freeplay has a better chance of succeeding.
Quote: AxelWolfI volunteer the Wizard to watch you play the big limits Back and win like you claim. I'll contact him and direct him to this thread.
you know what your problem is?
you don't have intuitive skills
all you have is math and that isn't all that much
you're never going to be a high roller 𝑩𝑰𝑮 𝑷𝑳𝑨𝒀𝑬𝑹 like md and have a large entourage fawning over you if all you have is math
you don't understand the 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒑𝒐𝒘𝒆𝒓 𝒐𝒇 𝒊𝒏𝒕𝒖𝒊𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 - there are things in this world that cannot be explained with logic and math
I have felt it too. sometime I just knew I was going to win a hand at BJ - but I didn't have that intuitive power all of the time
instead of looking for a small math edge you should be looking for a large 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐞𝐝𝐠𝐞
you need to step up your game if you want to be 𝐁𝐈𝐆........................😄 😄 😄 😄 😄
Quote: lilredroosteryou know what your problem is?
you don't have intuitive skills
all you have is math and that isn't all that much
you're never going to be a high roller 𝑩𝑰𝑮 𝑷𝑳𝑨𝒀𝑬𝑹 like md and have a large entourage fawning over you if all you have is math
you don't understand the 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒑𝒐𝒘𝒆𝒓 𝒐𝒇 𝒊𝒏𝒕𝒖𝒊𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 - there are things in this world that cannot be explained with logic and math
I have felt it too. sometime I just knew I was going to win a hand at BJ - but I didn't have that intuitive power all of the time
instead of looking for a small math edge you should be looking for a large 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐮𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐯𝐞 𝐞𝐝𝐠𝐞
you need to step up your game if you want to be 𝐁𝐈𝐆........................😄 😄 😄 😄 😄
Because when i plays, i dont choose to sit but stand all the time, and not.... not what you think that standing will bet that kind of small amount, i normally bet 5k to 10k in 1 hand of bac.
Mostly i stand because of speed i able to scout few table and move around to make my choice, 2nd when i sit i have to focus on 1 shoe and lose most of the time.
So i choose to stand playing around and almost everytime i bet there are some small fish pull their chip back or swap side, some even look at me like this guy are crazy.
If i choosed to sit table, my checkin capital about 100k start up to 200k.
For easy to understand how player affect others players bet decisions, example: you play win lose win lose, then someone bet 10 , 9wins out of 10hands, so his next bet will you follow or you dare to side opposite?.
Its human decision and when there is chances that will increase your win rate even there is no math support you will still believe it till you lose and you will blame something again.
Math in gambling is alll about big data and if you cant play longer than 10hours a day, the math dont help you but skills.
My best history was a day winning 200k with 20k buyin then left 1k at last, maybe its luckiest day that everyone around my table watching me like WTF left 1k and go up to 100k in 1shoe.
I still remember that i had my buyin 20k up and down. But i still profit, somehow dunno what make my mind to keep betting and losing and left me 1k and there is other players look at me and say call it a day, then i just put the last 1k and boom it become 100k after the shoe ended.
Afterward from 100k form up to 200k because so easy.
There others players all said " we all waiting for your bet" and no one move and then i say i want to go grab a drink and they are so worried about me leaving and so someone come and offer me what i want to drink, however i left all my 100+k chips on the table and walk out direct to the bar to grab a drink.
You know it when you will win and that sense just come in, i was very suprised that when i bet that side getting 1point after and won or having 0point but didnt lose, me myself also very suprised how it happening when your sense connected the game you playing.
Of course its not something we can repeat or do at anytime, but that kind of power existed.
And no again, that not the only day i have that kind of wins, normal my goal are 10x or 20x based on my capital size and most of the time i able to achieved.
But 1k to 100k 100xtime, or 1000% in return, that break my own records.
Hope my story wont boring any of you and yes again, players playing suck will affect others players on the same table, we can avoid it by not bet the hand, but what i choose to do is bet asap when everyone still thinking, so my bet wont affect by others.
Thank you
Quote: HunterBBQI totally agreed with player betting opposing will affect other players decision.
Because when i plays, i dont choose to sit but stand all the time, and not.... not what you think that standing will bet that kind of small amount, i normally bet 5k to 10k in 1 hand of bac....
But 1k to 100k 100xtime, or 1000% in return, that break my own records.
Hope my story wont boring any of you and yes again, players playing suck will affect others players on the same table, we can avoid it by not bet the hand, but what i choose to do is bet asap when everyone still thinking, so my bet wont affect by others.
Thank you
Here we go again:
Welcome new user. Please don't stop your high stakes betting because the casinos would like their money back and there would be no better read here than how you gave it.
Thank you for giving hope to we mere mortals that we too can become massively wise and wealthy.
We need more whales. Bring on the blubber.
Quote: HunterBBQplayers playing suck will affect others players on the same table
I totally agree. If the guy in first is getting a hummer from the girl in 2nd, it has a massive effect on me at third.
Quote: billryanIt appears the boards are finally getting those whale type posters that were so desperately lacking. Who doesn't want to hear about strangers turning 10,000% profits on a regular basis.
We need more whales. Bring on the blubber.
*Blabber.
Quote: HunterBBQ
Math in gambling is alll about big data and if you cant play longer than 10hours a day, the math dont help you but skills.
Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to more of this type of in depth analysis from you.
I'm sorry, I got you confused with Mendoza.Quote: HunterBBQI totally agreed with player betting opposing will affect other players decision.
Because when i plays, i dont choose to sit but stand all the time, and not.... not what you think that standing will bet that kind of small amount, i normally bet 5k to 10k in 1 hand of bac.
Mostly i stand because of speed i able to scout few table and move around to make my choice, 2nd when i sit i have to focus on 1 shoe and lose most of the time.
So i choose to stand playing around and almost everytime i bet there are some small fish pull their chip back or swap side, some even look at me like this guy are crazy.
If i choosed to sit table, my checkin capital about 100k start up to 200k.
For easy to understand how player affect others players bet decisions, example: you play win lose win lose, then someone bet 10 , 9wins out of 10hands, so his next bet will you follow or you dare to side opposite?.
Its human decision and when there is chances that will increase your win rate even there is no math support you will still believe it till you lose and you will blame something again.
Math in gambling is alll about big data and if you cant play longer than 10hours a day, the math dont help you but skills.
My best history was a day winning 200k with 20k buyin then left 1k at last, maybe its luckiest day that everyone around my table watching me like WTF left 1k and go up to 100k in 1shoe.
I still remember that i had my buyin 20k up and down. But i still profit, somehow dunno what make my mind to keep betting and losing and left me 1k and there is other players look at me and say call it a day, then i just put the last 1k and boom it become 100k after the shoe ended.
Afterward from 100k form up to 200k because so easy.
There others players all said " we all waiting for your bet" and no one move and then i say i want to go grab a drink and they are so worried about me leaving and so someone come and offer me what i want to drink, however i left all my 100+k chips on the table and walk out direct to the bar to grab a drink.
You know it when you will win and that sense just come in, i was very suprised that when i bet that side getting 1point after and won or having 0point but didnt lose, me myself also very suprised how it happening when your sense connected the game you playing.
Of course its not something we can repeat or do at anytime, but that kind of power existed.
And no again, that not the only day i have that kind of wins, normal my goal are 10x or 20x based on my capital size and most of the time i able to achieved.
But 1k to 100k 100xtime, or 1000% in return, that break my own records.
Hope my story wont boring any of you and yes again, players playing suck will affect others players on the same table, we can avoid it by not bet the hand, but what i choose to do is bet asap when everyone still thinking, so my bet wont affect by others.
Thank you
I'm not liking the new you.Quote: michael99000Welcome to the forum. Looking forward to more of this type of in depth analysis from you.
One way that it does influence the outcome is that, win or lose, if some moron that is annoying in any way (drunk, being stupid, trying to hit me with the dice since I bet the darkside) influences things because he wrecks my good time.
