Thread Rating:

Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 1:56:18 AM permalink
So in my home country i play blackjack at a casino which i think has great blackjack rules. I would like an opinion about how good these rules are for card counting because i personally think they are pretty good. The rules are :
Number of decks: 6
Dealer stands on a soft 17
Player can double on any first two cards
Player can resplit to 4 hands
Player can resplit aces.
There is no hole card so player loses all to a natural BJ.
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3 to 2.
When you hit 21 with 777 you get 2 to 1 not 1 to 1
They cut about 2 decks from 6 (2 decks won't be dealt)


And lastly what i think its really valuable is that you can wong in without ANY problem. And from my experience they don't seem to know about card counting or at least they don't care about it because i'm pretty obvious when I count cards and i have never been backed off or received any heat. Is this casino a goldmine or am i just overestimating it? Looking forward to your answer wizard.
OnceDear
OnceDear
  • Threads: 63
  • Posts: 7476
Joined: Jun 1, 2014
September 26th, 2022 at 2:16:11 AM permalink
Quote: Lucky5o3

So in my home country i play blackjack at a casino which i think has great blackjack rules. I would like an opinion about how good these rules are for card counting because i personally think they are pretty good. The rules are :
Number of decks: 6
Dealer stands on a soft 17
Player can double on any first two cards
Player can resplit to 4 hands
Player can resplit aces.
There is no hole card so player loses all to a natural BJ.
No surrender
Blackjack pays 3 to 2.
When you hit 21 with 777 you get 2 to 1 not 1 to 1
They cut about 2 decks from 6 (2 decks won't be dealt)


And lastly what i think its really valuable is that you can wong in without ANY problem. And from my experience they don't seem to know about card counting or at least they don't care about it because i'm pretty obvious when I count cards and i have never been backed off or received any heat. Is this casino a goldmine or am i just overestimating it? Looking forward to your answer wizard.
link to original post


Germany?
The doubling and splitting rules are good, but the No hold card is not so good.
What makes this attractive is the penetration.
I wouldn't call it a goldmine unless you have a pretty massive bankroll, and mostly lots of free time. You won't see too many hands with good enough count and opportunity to wong in and bet big, maybe a few hands per hour. Then your wonging in will be conspicuous. Similarly if you min bet and then ramp up with the count, you'll be conspicuous again.
Sounds a good game to play recreationally with some fun counting along the way.
Psalm 25:16 Turn to me and be gracious to me, for I am lonely and afflicted. Proverbs 18:2 A fool finds no satisfaction in trying to understand, for he would rather express his own opinion.
Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 2:31:10 AM permalink
Thank you for your answer. No not Germany, a country in Eastern Europe. From experience wonging in has never been a problem. I've sat there with a drink in my hand sometimes for 20 minutes counting cards without betting and then when a good count comes i bet. The one time i had a problem wonging in was with the other players who said i ruined the flow of the cards by opening one more hand in the middle of the game.
ksdjdj
ksdjdj
  • Threads: 94
  • Posts: 1707
Joined: Oct 20, 2013
September 26th, 2022 at 2:54:18 AM permalink
Quote: Lucky5o3

(snip)
And lastly what i think its really valuable is that you can wong in without ANY problem. And from my experience they don't seem to know about card counting or at least they don't care about it because i'm pretty obvious when I count cards and i have never been backed off or received any heat.
(anip)
link to original post


I may be wrong, so wait until other people on this site confirm or not, but below is what I have for the "Wong in / out" style bettor.

"Wong in" : ~1/6 of the time, when TC = > 1.
"Wong out": ~5/6 of the time, when TC < 1.
Average EV: about +1/94***

***: I looked at it again, and this time about +1/118 was the EV figure that I got (so I guess we will have to wait for someone else to check it).
Last edited by: ksdjdj on Sep 26, 2022
Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 5:23:07 AM permalink
Quote: ksdjdj

Quote: Lucky5o3

(snip)
And lastly what i think its really valuable is that you can wong in without ANY problem. And from my experience they don't seem to know about card counting or at least they don't care about it because i'm pretty obvious when I count cards and i have never been backed off or received any heat.
(anip)
link to original post


I may be wrong, so wait until other people on this site confirm or not, but below is what I have for the "Wong in / out" style bettor.

"Wong in" : ~1/6 of the time, when TC = > 1.
"Wong out": ~5/6 of the time, when TC < 1.
Average EV: about +1/94***

***: I looked at it again, and this time about +1/118 was the EV figure that I got (so I guess we will have to wait for someone else to check it).
link to original post



so average advantage is + 1/118 that means 0.8%. That doesn't seem bad
aceside
aceside
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 453
Joined: May 14, 2021
September 26th, 2022 at 5:46:05 AM permalink
I just analyzed this game. The house edge is about 0.45%. This game is good for recreational playing because the edge is low, but probably not good for counting because the cut card is not placed deep enough. It is not good for wonging either because there will not be many rounds for you to profit each shoe.
Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 6:36:05 AM permalink
Would you mind sharing a picture of the analysis? For example a game with the rules as mentioned above with a 1000 bankroll and betting strategy : 10 dollars at TC +1
20 at TC + 2, 50 at +3 and 80 at +4 (only playing positive counts)
aceside
aceside
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 453
Joined: May 14, 2021
September 26th, 2022 at 6:56:04 AM permalink
I don't have a picture, but here is how I analyzed this.
Use this Wizard calculator to find the house edge:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/calculator/

For the 7-7-7 bonus part, the probability of the player getting a 7-7-7 hand is 0.0004. However, among these player's initial 7-7 hands, you will roughly hit 50% of them. This means that this bonus reduces the house edge by 0.0004/2=0.02%. It's tiny.
Last edited by: aceside on Sep 26, 2022
IWannaBeAP
IWannaBeAP
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 78
Joined: Aug 22, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 11:27:59 AM permalink
I've been to casinos in Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Sweden, and EVERY single casino I saw, uses continuous shufflers. No exceptions. So are you sure you can even count there to begin with?
Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 26th, 2022 at 12:04:34 PM permalink
Yes my friend i think i know the difference between a csm and a shoe.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
  • Threads: 60
  • Posts: 5037
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
Thanked by
Lucky5o3anjelsazonova
September 26th, 2022 at 3:54:26 PM permalink
I also analyzed this game, without including the rule that 777 pays 2:1, and I got a player EV of -0.4505%. However, the rule "777 pays 2:1" is listed here BJ Rules Variations as being worth about +0.03% to the player.

So, I would estimate a player EV of -0.421% for this set of rules. That is a good game.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
Lucky5o3
Lucky5o3
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 9
Joined: Sep 26, 2022
September 27th, 2022 at 2:17:56 AM permalink
Thank you Gordon. So does anybody know how to calculate your advantage against the house for every true count at this specific table? Does it increase in average with 0.5% per TC like any other table with different rules? so at TC +1 i would have 0.5%-0.421% = 0.079% Advantage at TC + 2 i would have 0.421% advantage at TC + 3 0.921% and so on ?
aceside
aceside
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 453
Joined: May 14, 2021
September 27th, 2022 at 6:08:56 AM permalink
I haven’t played European no hole card games, but I can imagine these games are relatively harder to count than American games. I guess not many people have worried about your question.
Deadsh0t
Deadsh0t
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 27, 2022
September 27th, 2022 at 8:09:41 AM permalink
Sock post redacted
Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 27, 2022
aceside
aceside
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 453
Joined: May 14, 2021
September 27th, 2022 at 9:00:19 AM permalink
The house edge for this game is 0.43%. There are several reasons why this ENHC game is relatively harder to count. Let me just name a couple here. I heard many European games have early surrender rules, but this game does not. For counters, surrender is the most important rule to explore but it is missing here. Doubling down and splitting less often in ENHC is another reason.
Deadsh0t
Deadsh0t
  • Threads: 0
  • Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 27, 2022
September 27th, 2022 at 9:12:21 AM permalink
sock post redacted
Last edited by: OnceDear on Sep 27, 2022
  • Jump to: