Foxwoods Pai Gow Tiles - New Side Bet "Bonus Spin"

Hi all!

Recent trip to Foxwoods to play some Pai Gow tiles and I got curious as to why the Pai Gow tiles tables had been modified with bonus buttons in the table and a progressive screen attached to the corner of first base. Spoke with the pit boss and they confirmed that, within the next couple weeks (as of November 19, 2019), Foxwoods would be offering a side bet on all Pai Gow titles named "Bonus Spin."

The bonus bet is $5 and the player must have a qualifying pair in hand of Gee Joon, Teen, or Day to spin a virtual wheel. The pair does not have to be played together, just have to be in the hand. If a player has two qualifying pair in hand, it's still just the single spin.

There was no indication as to what the wheel spins would contain for payouts, but the one sheet that he showed me did indicate a progressive jackpot. I took a photo of both sides of the one sheet, but can't post it here as I've not reached my post threshold to share links...

The odds of getting any of the three pair must be fairly low, but I've yet to try to figure out this number. Without knowing what the wheel holds, it will be a little while before figuring out a house edge on this bonus. First thoughts, it seems like an easy $5 rip for the casino. Has anyone seen this bonus anywhere else??

Additionally, Foxwoods does not allow a 10% bump on the player's bet when banking, should anyone be curious about that.

Cheers!

It would be fairer to allow the other two tiles in the player's hand to determine the prize rather than the spin of a wheel. Another idea is to include the dealer's hand (e.g. any four pairs, any three pairs, any two pairs) as this creates an opportunity to offer a jackpot.

e.g.
(A) Top two pairs (GJ and Teen)
(B) Two pairs (from GJ, Teen, Day)
(C) Pair with other two tiles deciding the prize
(i) Second pair
(ii) Wong, Gong or Hi 9.
(iii) Another other 9 (I'm guessing you don't split the pair if the other two make a 9).
(iv) Other totals 0 - 8 (note many of these will result in the original pair being split).

c.f. https://wizardofodds.com/games/pai-gow-tiles/pair-fortunes/

I look forward to the full set of rules.

Speaking of pai gow side bets, I seem to recall a discussion of a side bet based in part on the colors of the tiles. Was I dreaming this or does anyone know more details?

Quote: Wizard

I look forward to the full set of rules.

Speaking of pai gow side bets, I seem to recall a discussion of a side bet based in part on the colors of the tiles. Was I dreaming this or does anyone know more details?

AC NJ has fire and ice side bet, which is:

all white -- 34 to 1
all red -- 999 to 1

https://www.nj.gov/lps/ge/docs/TempRegs/FireandIcewagertext.pdf

For PG and PGP I always thought it would be fun to bet on if you'll receive the dragon's head or tail (1st or 7th hand). It seems a shame to waist that ritualistic dice shake (although an RNG is less a big deal). Off top of my head, payoffs would be something like...

Head or Tail bet pays 5:1
Cover Head and Tail pays 2:1 (maybe 3:2)

I can't believe no one has side bets on the dice totals in Tiles. Seems like a no-brainer.

I think they might do something like this in some other countries, but I don't think it's anywhere in the U.S.

Quote: spires

... The odds of getting any of the three pair must be fairly low, but I've yet to try to figure out this number. Without knowing what the wheel holds, it will be a little while before figuring out a house edge on this bonus. First thoughts, it seems like an easy $5 rip for the casino. ...

I find the chance of getting one or more of the three pairs to be 1302/35960 ~= 3.6%. So there is a greater than 96% probability you will lose a side bet, and that's that.

Quote: sodawater

AC NJ has fire and ice side bet, which is:

all white -- 34 to 1
all red -- 999 to 1

https://www.nj.gov/lps/ge/docs/TempRegs/FireandIcewagertext.pdf

wizard can i request the EV of this bet?

Hopefully I can count how many Red and White tiles there are.. if so I get it as a fairly bad bet.

Tile	Number
5-5	2
3-3	2
2-2	2
6-5	2
6-3	1
6-2	1
5-3	1
5-2	1
3-2	1
Total White	13
4-4	2
1-1	2
Total Red	4

	Perms	Odds	Contribution
White	715	34	24 310
Red	1	999	999
Loser	35 244	-1	-35 244
TOTAL	35 960	-27.628%	-9 935

Quote: charliepatrick

Hopefully I can count how many Red and White tiles there are.. ...

I think there are actually five red tiles. I thought there were only four red tiles until I noticed that one of the 5-tiles is red.

See https://wizardofodds.com/games/pai-gow-tiles/.

Quote: charliepatrick

Hopefully I can count how many Red and White tiles there are.. if so I get it as a fairly bad bet.

Tile	Number
5-5	2
3-3	2
2-2	2
6-5	2
6-3	1
6-2	1
5-3	1
5-2	1
3-2	1
Total White	13
4-4	2
1-1	2
Total Red	4

	Perms	Odds	Contribution
White	715	34	24 310
Red	1	999	999
Loser	35 244	-1	-35 244
TOTAL	35 960	-27.628%	-9 935

Start over. 5 total red tiles.

^ Thanks - it's the page I had looked at but didn't spot the 4-1 tile at the bottom (even though I saw the 3-2 one!)

Tile	Number
5-5	2
3-3	2
2-2	2
6-5	2
6-3	1
6-2	1
5-3	1
5-2	1
3-2	1
Total White	13
4-4	2
1-1	2
4-1	1
Total Red	5

	Perms	Odds	Contribution
White	715	34	24 310
Red	5	999	4 995
Loser	35 240	-1	-35 240
TOTAL	35 960	-16.504%	-5 935

Quote: spires

Hi all!

Recent trip to Foxwoods to play some Pai Gow tiles and I got curious as to why the Pai Gow tiles tables had been modified with bonus buttons in the table and a progressive screen attached to the corner of first base. Spoke with the pit boss and they confirmed that, within the next couple weeks (as of November 19, 2019), Foxwoods would be offering a side bet on all Pai Gow titles named "Bonus Spin."

The bonus bet is $5 and the player must have a qualifying pair in hand of Gee Joon, Teen, or Day to spin a virtual wheel. The pair does not have to be played together, just have to be in the hand. If a player has two qualifying pair in hand, it's still just the single spin.

There was no indication as to what the wheel spins would contain for payouts, but the one sheet that he showed me did indicate a progressive jackpot. I took a photo of both sides of the one sheet, but can't post it here as I've not reached my post threshold to share links...

The odds of getting any of the three pair must be fairly low, but I've yet to try to figure out this number. Without knowing what the wheel holds, it will be a little while before figuring out a house edge on this bonus. First thoughts, it seems like an easy $5 rip for the casino. Has anyone seen this bonus anywhere else??

Additionally, Foxwoods does not allow a 10% bump on the player's bet when banking, should anyone be curious about that.

Cheers!

This sounds a lot like the Kount Kustom bet CET properties had rented on some BJ tables. $5 flat bet, taken at start (spots lit). Ace dealt paid 1 for 1. Blackjack got you a wheel spin. Wheel had about 16 partitions, valued from $50 to $165, and a jackpot of a Kustom Harley that never seemed to hit.

There was a whole addition to the table needed, with a wheel and a control panel hooked into the lit spots. If you got a spin, they passed you a little box with a button to start the wheel.

Maybe the distributor is trying to re-purpose the equipment.

Quote: charliepatrick

^ Thanks - it's the page I had looked at but didn't spot the 4-1 tile at the bottom (even though I saw the 3-2 one!)

Tile	Number
5-5	2
3-3	2
2-2	2
6-5	2
6-3	1
6-2	1
5-3	1
5-2	1
3-2	1
Total White	13
4-4	2
1-1	2
4-1	1
Total Red	5

	Perms	Odds	Contribution
White	715	34	24 310
Red	5	999	4 995
Loser	35 240	-1	-35 240
TOTAL	35 960	-16.504%	-5 935

Thanks, Charlie,

Can I ask why you used permutations instead of combinations? Order doesn't matter for the tiles.

Quote: sodawater

Thanks, Charlie,

Can I ask why you used permutations instead of combinations? Order doesn't matter for the tiles.

He did use combinations. Combin(32,4)= 35960

Mathematically the "Fire and Ice" bet seems a foolish wager to make and yet, artistically, there is great beauty in the concept. It's very ... Pai Gow-ish (if that makes sense).