VA: Slots now legal (2017)?!

this was at a bar I visited in VA this month (Nov).
you bring the ticket to the bartender and he redeems it.
one of the customers sitting at the bar said he won $400 on it.
this machine is just slots. no VP.

but I cant find anything on Google that says slots are now legal in VA?!

This company says the machine is in Compliance w/laws?
https://www.fourcompliance.com/qvscompliance

Company formed 10/13/2017? https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wy/2017-000772307
if so, that was quick turn around to get machines into locations

Are you sure they are actually slot machines and not simply electronic bingo in the style of a slot machine.

Bingo is legal in Virginia.

There's nowhere on the machine where it says "for entertainment only"?

do you appear to win 'games' or does it clearly show you win money?

any hint they wouldn't pay off if they didn't know you?

Quote: FleaStiff

Bingo is legal in Virginia.

Has to be charitable for bingo, and as far as I know the class II idea for slot machines is a no-go

Quote: 100xOdds

this was at a bar I visited in VA this month (Nov).
you bring the ticket to the bartender and he redeems it.
one of the customers sitting at the bar said he won $400 on it.
this machine is just slots. no VP.

but I cant find anything on Google that says slots are now legal in VA?!

This company says the machine is in Compliance w/laws?
https://www.fourcompliance.com/qvscompliance

Company formed 10/13/2017? https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wy/2017-000772307
if so, that was quick turn around to get machines into locations

It's hard to say that they are 100% above board.

1.) The, "Registered Address," is a box at a UPS store in Georgia. It's not a suite of any kind, despite what it says.

2.) The, "Agent Address," is an office-share (virtual office) location that can be had for as little as $100/month. These places do mail forwarding, act as an answering service and give you a physical address for when that is needed. In fact, the only real service required is the physical address, I think everything else could technically be optional.

3.) Corporate Creations Network (the agent) is just an online company that can be used to form an LLC online. There are many similar services, registering a Limited Liability Company is exceptionally easy to do in many states. You could have one in an hour, in some.

4.) Here is the business license for Queen of Virginia:

(Deleted-Can't attach without my name appearing on this computer)

Which is official, technically, but again, LLC's are easy to create. Wyoming is just registering them as an LLC, they don't give a crap what they do as long as they aren't doing it in Wyoming. See, virtually no information known/needed by Wyoming:

https://wyobiz.wy.gov/Business/FilingDetails.aspx?eFNum=255105013187109201134018042171200104108176118046

You just call the thing something and have a dedicated address. I think, "Suite," is just to make it look more official, it's a UPS box.

5.) Unless the law has changed, these would definitely constitute illegal gaming devices under Virginia code:

3. "Gambling device" includes:
a. Any device, machine, paraphernalia, equipment, or other thing, including books, records and other papers, which are actually used in an illegal gambling operation or activity, and
b. Any machine, apparatus, implement, instrument, contrivance, board or other thing, or electronic or video versions thereof, including but not limited to those dependent upon the insertion of a coin or other object for their operation, which operates, either completely automatically or with the aid of some physical act by the player or operator, in such a manner that, depending upon elements of chance, it may eject something of value or determine the prize or other thing of value to which the player is entitled; provided, however, that the return to the user of nothing more than additional chances or the right to use such machine is not deemed something of value within the meaning of this subsection; and provided further, that machines that only sell, or entitle the user to, items of merchandise of equivalent value that may differ from each other in composition, size, shape or color, shall not be deemed gambling devices within the meaning of this subsection.
Such devices are no less gambling devices if they indicate beforehand the definite result of one or more operations but not all the operations. Nor are they any less a gambling device because, apart from their use or adaptability as such, they may also sell or deliver something of value on a basis other than chance.


They say Authorized by the VA Office for Alcohol Beverage Control, which even if true, does not authorize them to operate for actual gambling purposes. They could theoretically operate, "For entertainment purposes," but the ABC doesn't authorize any forms of gambling---they lack the capacity to---the games would have to be approved by the VA Lottery Commission.

6.) I find no record of them being reviewed or authorized by the AG. I am similarly unsurprised that they offer no such documentation regarding same on thyeir one-page website.

So, there you go.

SHORT VERSION: No way this is legal. Some Counties/Cities/Municipalities may turn a blind eye as is sometimes done elsewhere, though.

Replace these with "bingo pinball machines" and you have just described a number of places in California. The machines themselves don't pay out; some guy behind the counter "buys the games back." It's quite illegal (and there are stories of the machines being demolished when found), and I have a feeling these are just as illegal.

In Wisconsin, bar slot machines work by awarding credits. Those credits are used to purchase prizes. Those prizes are bought back by the operator for cash. It'd be like if an arcade "sold" a stuffed animal for 50 tickets and then bought it back for $20. That structure seems to comply with the letter of VA's laws.

Quote: rdw4potus

In Wisconsin, bar slot machines work by awarding credits. Those credits are used to purchase prizes. Those prizes are bought back by the operator for cash. It'd be like if an arcade "sold" a stuffed animal for 50 tickets and then bought it back for $20. That structure seems to comply with the letter of VA's laws.

Not a lawyer, but I agree that it might. I’m not sure about the buyback aspect because it refers to, “Merchandise credit.” A few Ohio truck stops have something similar with their Cherry Masters, but you actually have to get merchandise.

Internet Sweepstakes stores pop up all the time. They generally close before they get shut down. One opened on Long Island about two years ago. The operators seemed proud of the 85% payback the machines offered. They were gone in about three months.

Here is a link to one of their FAQ pages
http://www.sweepstakesmachines.com/faq

Took screenshot from another bar in va

Slots?
Heck, Virginia will soon have a full fledged casino.

1982..."tribe" files for recognition.
2015... tribe gains federal recognition.
2018... tribe announces intent to acquire reservation land and construct a large casino though so far its all nothing but drawings.

Expected to have financial impact on National Harbor casino owned/operated by MGM. MGM was denied permission to intervene in legal proceedings involving tribal recognition, the court ruling that economic impact did not grant any status to appear before the Dept. of the Interior regarding tribal matters.

See Washington Post
Pamunkey Tribe

Wow 33 years to get recongnition.

so this time what did the 'skill' seem to be about?

Quote: FleaStiff

Slots?
Heck, Virginia will soon have a full fledged casino.

1982..."tribe" files for recognition.
2015... tribe gains federal recognition.
2018... tribe announces intent to acquire reservation land and construct a large casino though so far its all nothing but drawings.

Expected to have financial impact on National Harbor casino owned/operated by MGM. MGM was denied permission to intervene in legal proceedings involving tribal recognition, the court ruling that economic impact did not grant any status to appear before the Dept. of the Interior regarding tribal matters.

See Washington Post
Pamunkey Tribe

thought the same then read more about the Pamunkey Tribe last year.

not going to happen about federally recognized reservation land thanks to a law from last decade.
(or maybe it was from the 1990s?)

There is a STATE recognized reservation of mostly riparian land and associated wetlands.
The tribe must BUY land and the federal government has agreed to recognize a certain amount of it as federally recognized Reservation Land which will be in the Indian land trust.

I think the casino will be real but not quite as soon as MGM fears or the tribe hopes.

there's definitely a buzz. Article mentions the issue,

Quote: article

A location outside the reservation would have to be approved by the U.S. Bureau of Indian Affairs. It would have to be land that was once home to the tribe

for some reason "on the reservation" is not in the plans. They have to buy a spot and get approval both.

Definitely check out the image

https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2018/03/19/there-could-be-competition-coming-for-mgm-national.html

The state recognized reservation is largely swampland or not much better than it. They want to select a site and the get the Bureau of Indian Affairs of the Dept. of the Interior to register that parcel as part of the federally recognized land trust. Until that is done no one is going to advance funds to build a casino in the swamps.
And the tribe sure does not have seven hundred million dollars in its construction kitty. After paying for all those lawyers and lobbyists the tribe doesn't have jackxxxx in its treasury.

Came across a Richmond Times-Dispatch editorial

Quote: link

opponents could face an uphill battle. Federal recognition means that tribes are, in effect, sovereign and self-governing nations. They can establish casinos essentially by right

The tribes that don't get casinos, in other words, do not have enough cred from the Feds... getting recognition only from "congressional legislation that bars tribal gambling endeavors". Must have been what happened to the Narragansetts, whose casino plans definitely got shot down a long time ago [just one tribe I had heard about, there must be others].

Starting to sound like a matter of time in this case

http://www.richmond.com/opinion/our-opinion/editorial-is-casino-gambling-coming-to-virginia/article_003ffbeb-d745-5a7f-aac3-e82a0a09c134.html

Quote: 100xOdds

this was at a bar I visited in VA this month (Nov).
you bring the ticket to the bartender and he redeems it.
one of the customers sitting at the bar said he won $400 on it.
this machine is just slots. no VP.

but I cant find anything on Google that says slots are now legal in VA?!

This company says the machine is in Compliance w/laws?
https://www.fourcompliance.com/qvscompliance

Company formed 10/13/2017? https://opencorporates.com/companies/us_wy/2017-000772307
if so, that was quick turn around to get machines into locations

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling-outside-vegas/eastern-us/28471-pennsylvania-skill/5/

Sounds like the same thing we discussed here. Skirting the law with the adding of "Skill". In PA you don't see as many as you did a year or so ago because the profits dried up when players figured them out. State Police, who enforce bars had better things to do than go after these guys so they are still around in some bars. No clue how Virginia looks upon these, but it would be nice to have a par sheet or results to see returns. I will say those pitching them are promising big returns to bar owners who place them, which tells you something if you are actually looking to play one.

Quote: Boz

https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling-outside-vegas/eastern-us/28471-pennsylvania-skill/5/

Sounds like the same thing we discussed here.
Skirting the law with the adding of "Skill".
In PA you don't see as many as you did a year or so ago because the profits dried up when players figured them out.
State Police, who enforce bars had better things to do than go after these guys so they are still around in some bars. No clue how Virginia looks upon these, but it would be nice to have a par sheet or results to see returns.

yes, EXACTLY the same games!

what do you mean players figured them out?
HOW?!?!

yeah, would love to see what the house edge ranges are for these games.

Quote: Boz

I will say those pitching them are promising big returns to bar owners who place them, which tells you something if you are actually looking to play one.

Explain?

Players figured out they can’t win, I.e. they lacked the skill to win. What skill that is needed, who knows. Like some have said, it could be like the skill stop needed on kids games to win a large prize where you have to stop the light at the right time. Looks easy but you are always just missing.

The route companies pushing the games are telling potential placement locations like me enough to tell me the return is low. He stated he has never had a losing week at a location and he owns a large vending company. Try and say that with a VP route. He provides great information but won’t give me details on the bells and whistles. Only that placements and returns are down since they were initially hot when first released.

I hope that helps answer some of your questions. These are by no means similar to a regular slot machine.

rumor has it that the VA version of these slots shut down after X amount of use/coin-in till the state comes in and does an inspection

Pamunkey tribe going to try again with 660 acre parcel in New Kent County just acquired by Illinois truckstop-gaming
company.

www.dailypress.com/news/politics/dp-nws-pamunkey-and-20180421-story.html

Recent article about "Queen of Virginia" slots:
https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2019/08/13/games-of-skill-or-illegal-slots-as-gaming-machines.html

but still cant find what the range of possible returns for the machine is.
ie: typical slot machines found in Vegas and Atlantic City have a return range usually between 85% - 96%

hm..



from that flyer, it looks like these 'skill based' slots might no longer be legal soon