Current FL Developments
May 22nd, 2016 at 9:45:36 AM
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Quote: LuckyPhow, from another threadSounds like an interesting subject to discuss, but best to discuss it on a separate thread somewhere else. But, I'm game.
I'm mighty new here, so I claim no particular knowledge of where might be best. That said, why don't you start a tread -- maybe in the "Other" subsection of the "Gambling Business" Forum. Something like, "Gaming Legal Battles in Florida," or something similar. No telling what info we might dredge from the folks at this site. I'll help by trying to answer your initial info request, and we'll see where it goes from there.
OK, here it is
I visit a brother once in a while in FL, not so far from Seminole Hard Rock Casino, Tampa , and would love for them to get a Craps Table and generally more table games. So I have tried to follow recent developments, but it seems like a lot of infighting and jockeying for position in the politics, complicated by what IIRC the Seminoles but also the racetracks have gotten in previous arrangements. It seems to be a delay in the inevitable, but what do you or anyone think about what we will seen in the end?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
May 22nd, 2016 at 10:07:48 AM
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Quote: odiousgambitOK, here it is
I visit a brother once in a while in FL, not so far from Seminole Hard Rock Casino, Tampa , and would love for them to get a Craps Table and generally more table games. So I have tried to follow recent developments, but it seems like a lot of infighting and jockeying for position in the politics, complicated by what IIRC the Seminoles but also the racetracks have gotten in previous arrangements. It seems to be a delay in the inevitable, but what do you or anyone think about what we will seen in the end?
My info is a few months outdated. But....
Last thing I remember happening down there is that the Seminoles renegotiated/renewed their compact to allow for these specialty games to come in (craps and real roulette). The reason for this being that the state run pari- mutuals (I THINK limited to dade and broward counties) would be allowed to have standard table games such as blackjack. I'm not sure if that part had been passed by the legislature. The reason for this would be to allow the state to continue to collect the gaming revenue taxes on the specialty games run by the Seminoles while gaining table games in the state run facilities.Under federal law, the state can only collect tax on games that are not allowed in the state run facilities. In this case that would be the specialty games...
I'm not sure what has transpired over the last few months, as I haven't closely followed... But that's what I believed to be the situation.
So to answer the question. I think eventually we will see full casinos, minus the specialty games, in some of the pari mutuals, and if allowed, bigger resort casinos at some of the new and established hotels like the margaritavile and the diplomat. Again however, I think that may be limited to dade and broward county.
.
May 22nd, 2016 at 10:22:47 AM
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The governor agreed to a new compact that allowed table games to continue, and craps and roulette (vegas style, not card craps or whatever ) to be added at their properties only. Not sure how that affected the racetrack and card room properties, but I don't believe they're offered house/banked games still, whatever else changed for them in this.
However ,the compact required approval by the Florida legislature, which refused to bring it to the floor in the last session, and adjourned without acting. So the Seminoles are running games under an expired compact, and nobody seems to know what happens next. I'm not sure why the state hasn't already shut down their non-slot activities; there was talk of it when it looked like the legislature was stalling. Must have come to some kind of interim agreement. Maybe not, and the state just isn't willing to enforce the sunset of the compact.
However ,the compact required approval by the Florida legislature, which refused to bring it to the floor in the last session, and adjourned without acting. So the Seminoles are running games under an expired compact, and nobody seems to know what happens next. I'm not sure why the state hasn't already shut down their non-slot activities; there was talk of it when it looked like the legislature was stalling. Must have come to some kind of interim agreement. Maybe not, and the state just isn't willing to enforce the sunset of the compact.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
May 22nd, 2016 at 10:33:20 AM
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What will we see in the end, after everyone in Florida stops fighting over whether or not this or that kind of gambling is allowed? My short answer is, I haven't a clue.
Others -- often vendors at the Southern Gaming Summit held each May in Biloxi -- who indicate they have (some kind of) an informed perspective say they expect more gambling, and more types of gambling, to come to Florida. But, more than 5 years ago they were telling me it would happen within 5 years, and it hasn't. But, they still tell me to expect it.
Florida's gaming environment is complex. Jai-alai has lost about 100% of its former popularity. Dog tracks have few bettors and many folks are concerned about treatment of the dogs. Some horse tracks make money, but others would close if they didn't receive $$ from slots and card games played on the property. Declining horse track "stakes" (paid to the horse owners) adversely impact the horse breeding industry, which is big in Florida. The Seminole tribe in Florida wants Craps and Roulette, but no additional competition. Disney, also with deep pockets, wants no additional gaming in the state.
That leaves state government. The state agency responsible for providing gaming oversight probably does the best it can with Florida's patchwork collection of gaming laws. But, it is poorly equipped to do the job right, and it gets scant support from either the Governor or the Florida Legislature. And, since state government doesn't do the job right, it now must defend its actions -- good or bad, right or wrong -- in several complex legal battles. I sometimes read the court decisions, briefs, and depositions. My take is that those driving the bus haven't a clue. It almost makes some of the testimony embarrassing to read. (No good examples at hand right now, but stay tuned. I'll keep an eye out.)
Sorry to have to tell you, but I haven't a clue about what we will see in the end. Folks in the industry -- selling goods and services to Florida's gaming establishments -- continue to tell me in the (hopefully, not too distant) future we should expect to see more gaming and more types of gaming. However, I'm a gambler. And, I'm not betting one way or the other on this one. Not yet, anyway.
Others -- often vendors at the Southern Gaming Summit held each May in Biloxi -- who indicate they have (some kind of) an informed perspective say they expect more gambling, and more types of gambling, to come to Florida. But, more than 5 years ago they were telling me it would happen within 5 years, and it hasn't. But, they still tell me to expect it.
Florida's gaming environment is complex. Jai-alai has lost about 100% of its former popularity. Dog tracks have few bettors and many folks are concerned about treatment of the dogs. Some horse tracks make money, but others would close if they didn't receive $$ from slots and card games played on the property. Declining horse track "stakes" (paid to the horse owners) adversely impact the horse breeding industry, which is big in Florida. The Seminole tribe in Florida wants Craps and Roulette, but no additional competition. Disney, also with deep pockets, wants no additional gaming in the state.
That leaves state government. The state agency responsible for providing gaming oversight probably does the best it can with Florida's patchwork collection of gaming laws. But, it is poorly equipped to do the job right, and it gets scant support from either the Governor or the Florida Legislature. And, since state government doesn't do the job right, it now must defend its actions -- good or bad, right or wrong -- in several complex legal battles. I sometimes read the court decisions, briefs, and depositions. My take is that those driving the bus haven't a clue. It almost makes some of the testimony embarrassing to read. (No good examples at hand right now, but stay tuned. I'll keep an eye out.)
Sorry to have to tell you, but I haven't a clue about what we will see in the end. Folks in the industry -- selling goods and services to Florida's gaming establishments -- continue to tell me in the (hopefully, not too distant) future we should expect to see more gaming and more types of gaming. However, I'm a gambler. And, I'm not betting one way or the other on this one. Not yet, anyway.
May 22nd, 2016 at 10:58:26 AM
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Quote: beachbumbabsThe governor agreed to a new compact that allowed table games to continue, and craps and roulette (vegas style, not card craps or whatever ) to be added at their properties only. Not sure how that affected the racetrack and card room properties, but I don't believe they're offered house/banked games still, whatever else changed for them in this.
However ,the compact required approval by the Florida legislature, which refused to bring it to the floor in the last session, and adjourned without acting. So the Seminoles are running games under an expired compact, and nobody seems to know what happens next. I'm not sure why the state hasn't already shut down their non-slot activities; there was talk of it when it looked like the legislature was stalling. Must have come to some kind of interim agreement. Maybe not, and the state just isn't willing to enforce the sunset of the compact.
I agree with your summary of some of the recent events. One of the court cases was brought by the state to force Seminole casinos to remove their table games. The Seminoles sued, saying the state allowed table games about everywhere that were supposed to be available only to the Seminole properties. By allowing player-dealers, the state was not acting in good faith, thereby voiding the Compact. I think the two lawsuits were merged.
I get reasonably good info from Florida Gaming Watch. Understand, however, the site is largely the work of one of the big Florida law firms active in various legal actions. The site focuses on news, gaming agency rule changes, and similar (mostly) factual information.
May 22nd, 2016 at 1:43:50 PM
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For me the answer is SWA. Fly to MSY or MEM, rent a car and drive to the best craps games in this country. Disagree? Tell a Vegas dealer you want to buy the 5. Deer in the headlights look is returned.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 22nd, 2016 at 1:52:24 PM
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I agree. Only in MS can you buy the 5/9.
May 23rd, 2016 at 1:00:10 AM
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Quote: whodatI agree. Only in MS can you buy the 5/9.
Don't forget, vig on win only!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
February 17th, 2017 at 6:44:26 PM
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Now for some positive gambling news
My local casino
The Seminole Hard Rock Tampa (6th or 7th largest casino in the world. Big because no competition)
Have been charging 10 bucks for parking the last 6 months
Is returning to free parking
yippee
I have not been there in over 6 months
Now may pop by for their good buffet :-)
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/free-parking-returning-to-tampas-hard-rock-casino-due-to-customer-concern/2313506
My local casino
The Seminole Hard Rock Tampa (6th or 7th largest casino in the world. Big because no competition)
Have been charging 10 bucks for parking the last 6 months
Is returning to free parking
yippee
I have not been there in over 6 months
Now may pop by for their good buffet :-)
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/free-parking-returning-to-tampas-hard-rock-casino-due-to-customer-concern/2313506
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
February 18th, 2017 at 2:59:12 AM
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Quote: terapinedMy local casino The Seminole Hard Rock Tampa (6th or 7th largest casino in the world)
Alas, my local casino is the Seminole Immokalee, a tiny little dump.
February 18th, 2017 at 7:07:17 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffAlas, my local casino is the Seminole Immokalee, a tiny little dump.
I think I checked out that casino once
Was interested in playing poker
No games going on but a few players waiting
Because I showed up, they had enough to start a game
Yea that is small when the Hard Rock Tampa usually has at least 30 full poker tables
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
February 18th, 2017 at 9:41:20 AM
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You can buy the 5 and 9 in PA and vig on win.
Expect the worst and you will never be disappointed.
I AM NOT PART OF GWAE RADIO SHOW
February 18th, 2017 at 1:25:17 PM
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Quote: GWAEYou can buy the 5 and 9 in PA and vig on win.
That alone, would pay for the parking. But FL casinos, on land, have no craps.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
March 5th, 2017 at 1:18:42 PM
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We have had Pai Gow poker in Tampa but it was just at the Hard Rock.
Kind of pricy, 20 minimum bet usually
Pai Gow poker at Derby Lane poker room in St Pete FL just started up
5 dollar min, no commission, no fortune bet
Its a game I enjoy a lot.
Its fun in that there is some thinking and I like handling cards and setting hands
Kind of pricy, 20 minimum bet usually
Pai Gow poker at Derby Lane poker room in St Pete FL just started up
5 dollar min, no commission, no fortune bet
Its a game I enjoy a lot.
Its fun in that there is some thinking and I like handling cards and setting hands
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
March 11th, 2017 at 12:58:51 PM
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This one of the best games in the country
House has an edge of course
But
Its so so slight
No commission pai gow poker
House edge just on ties
5 min
5k max
Put 30k on the table and you can bank
House has an edge of course
But
Its so so slight
No commission pai gow poker
House edge just on ties
5 min
5k max
Put 30k on the table and you can bank
Last edited by: terapined on Mar 11, 2017
Its just a forum. Nothing here to get obsessed about.
March 30th, 2017 at 4:50:24 PM
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House and Senate Bills differ ... court cases also looming.
Current Situation:
http://news.wfsu.org/post/gambling-bills-advance-distance-remains
Current Situation:
http://news.wfsu.org/post/gambling-bills-advance-distance-remains
March 30th, 2017 at 7:26:33 PM
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Quote: FleaStiffHouse and Senate Bills differ ... court cases also looming.
Ugh! Please don't remind me. The state's leadership acting like Keystone Cops chasing their own tails. What an embarrassment.
March 31st, 2017 at 3:13:28 AM
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It occurs to me that other states led the way, setting good and bad examples of how to introduce gambling, yet Florida's motto seems to be "we do it our way" and they made a dog's breakfast out of it
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
March 31st, 2017 at 5:24:14 AM
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Its all a question about reality.
Orlando is high crime, high drugs, high gangland, but its still the place of MONEY, Disneyland therefore there will be no non-Disney compatible activities such as crime drugs gangs or gambling. Those with money will bring it to Florida for Disney, not for gambling not for Disney and gambling, just for Disney.
Versus
Disney is fading glory. Real world is drugs, crime,gangs, gambling. Let the money flow to casino owhers.
Versus
Disney is fading glory. Let the money flow to casino owners but not thru the Seminoles.
Orlando is high crime, high drugs, high gangland, but its still the place of MONEY, Disneyland therefore there will be no non-Disney compatible activities such as crime drugs gangs or gambling. Those with money will bring it to Florida for Disney, not for gambling not for Disney and gambling, just for Disney.
Versus
Disney is fading glory. Real world is drugs, crime,gangs, gambling. Let the money flow to casino owhers.
Versus
Disney is fading glory. Let the money flow to casino owners but not thru the Seminoles.
March 31st, 2017 at 7:52:42 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffIts all a question about reality. Those with money will bring it to Florida for Disney, not for gambling...not thru the Seminoles.
Yes. All that you said and more.
- Whatever happens in Florida, the Seminoles cannot wind up with less than before, otherwise the Compact is voided.
- Like them or hate them, IMHO the Seminoles have tried to negotiate Compact amendments in good faith, including continuing to pay the state's percentage of gaming revenues when recent court cases say that is not necessary.
- Florida -- when it can get its act together at all -- has played fast and loose with the requirement that parties negotiating the Compact must act in good faith. If memory serves (and I can probably find a reference), Florida's attorney general commented publicly that the state, indeed, had negotiated the original Compact with the Seminoles in good faith. But, she asserted, that requirement does not apply to AMENDMENTS to the original Compact.
- "Whoa! Is that even possible?" one might reasonably ask. In Florida, that crap is "business as usual." We have a governor who, prior to running for public office, took the Fifth Amendment 50+ times when his medical services company was investigated for medical payment problems. Who then used his fortune to buy his way into office, rudely pushing every other Republican primary candidate out of the way and far outspending his Democrat opponent. And his running mate as Lieutenant Governor had to resign after being linked to a statewide veteran's "charity" that apparently enriched only the operators. Get outta the way, New Jersey! Here comes Florida as the champion of corruption.
- But, guess what! The Office of Indian Gaming (in the US Dep't of Interior) has put everyone on notice that it hasn't been pleased with what it sees. And, it carries a big club. That is, unless some new Sec'y of the Interior appointed by our new president decides, "Hey, all this looks OK to me. Business as usual in Florida, so no problem."
- And the legislators are looking at ways to have more direct impact on decisions by judges by things like term limits, etc. Because who likes to have some durn judge decide you didn't do your homework right when you rewrote the Seminole Compact (or screwed up other state gaming regulations).
Are we having fun yet? Or, what?
May 2nd, 2017 at 3:34:20 PM
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The current in-progress legislation (Senate Bill 8) has gone to committee, and the two chambers of state government are in negotiations right now. There are some interesting developments that are pretty easy to follow here: flsenate.gov/Session/Conferences/2017/Gaming
As of April 26, both the house and senate currently agree to allow legit craps and roulette tables in all 7 Seminole tribe casinos. Good news for anyone looking to play these games in FL, assuming the agreement holds in the final legislation.
Still no agreement yet on:
-Allowing commercial facilities to operate slot machines via any county voter referendum.
-Allowing 1 or 2 new commercial casinos with house-banked card games in the Miami area.
I wish there was a provision to establish a state gaming commission...Florida could really use one.
As of April 26, both the house and senate currently agree to allow legit craps and roulette tables in all 7 Seminole tribe casinos. Good news for anyone looking to play these games in FL, assuming the agreement holds in the final legislation.
Still no agreement yet on:
-Allowing commercial facilities to operate slot machines via any county voter referendum.
-Allowing 1 or 2 new commercial casinos with house-banked card games in the Miami area.
I wish there was a provision to establish a state gaming commission...Florida could really use one.
Last edited by: Caiman on May 2, 2017
May 15th, 2017 at 4:35:18 AM
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I think this is the more appropriate thread for the recent post I made elsewhere.
Miami Commissioners nixed any type of casino in Miami by a vote of six to zero on two ordinances. These are legally preliminary votes and may reflect a tactical move rather than a true political sentiment.
Full details in Miami Herald and local Miami publications.
Disney interests in Orlando do not want there to be a 'toe hold' for any Sin City in Florida, they certainly don't want Orlando to become a Sin City even though its a high crime city now.
Miami Commissioners nixed any type of casino in Miami by a vote of six to zero on two ordinances. These are legally preliminary votes and may reflect a tactical move rather than a true political sentiment.
Full details in Miami Herald and local Miami publications.
Disney interests in Orlando do not want there to be a 'toe hold' for any Sin City in Florida, they certainly don't want Orlando to become a Sin City even though its a high crime city now.
May 15th, 2017 at 7:06:54 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffMiami Commissioners ... n
More precisely, Miami Beach Commissioners. No resort casinos out on the beaches.
As for the rest of Miami-Dade County, we're still waiting to see if all the checks clear before other city and county commissioners vote for or against casinos. Places that don't have natural amenities, such as beaches, may want casinos and the money they bring. Maybe, just maybe.
May 15th, 2017 at 5:07:42 PM
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Senate bill 8 was killed right around the time I made that post on May 2. Chambers could not reconcile differences. Now the tribal compact and lawsuits related to player-banked games and expansion of slots remain up in the air. What a mess...
May 15th, 2017 at 5:20:42 PM
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I understand time ran out on compromise as the lege session ended. When is the next legislative session?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 16th, 2017 at 5:42:22 AM
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Quote: DeMangoI understand time ran out on compromise as the lege session ended. When is the next legislative session?
Next regular session of the Florida legislature is next March. But, a special session could be called at any time by the governor.
May 16th, 2017 at 2:59:11 PM
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Wow! Nice work if you can get it!
Will we see you next week?
Will we see you next week?
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 16th, 2017 at 4:18:16 PM
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Quote: DeMangoWow! Nice work if you can get it!
Will we see you next week?
You probably won't see me next week, if that's what you're asking. But, I'm puzzled as to why you ask. Trip report on my April-May Biloxi trip is (slowly) coming together. Next Biloxi trip is currently scheduled for late August (just prior to Labor Day).
I don't suppose there are enough folks to make a WoV Biloxi get-together work. But, I'd support any attempt to do one.
May 16th, 2017 at 4:39:53 PM
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With all the complaints coming from Vegas punters you would figure more would travel to Biloxi. They used to make great commercials for the Gulf Coast, several mayors joining in, and broadcast on FL TV stations. They should rebroadcast them on Vegas TV!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 16th, 2017 at 5:08:03 PM
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Quote: LuckyPhowYou probably won't see me next week, if that's what you're asking. But, I'm puzzled as to why you ask. Trip report on my April-May Biloxi trip is (slowly) coming together. Next Biloxi trip is currently scheduled for late August (just prior to Labor Day).
I don't suppose there are enough folks to make a WoV Biloxi get-together work. But, I'd support any attempt to do one.
I think a WoV South could well work in Biloxi. I bet we could get at least a dozen to come out.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
May 16th, 2017 at 5:25:12 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabsI think a WoV South could well work in Biloxi. I bet we could get at least a dozen to come out.
Works for me!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 17th, 2017 at 9:49:38 AM
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I think that's a fine idea, Babs! Although, I'm not sure I can make it out there in the near future. Convincing Mrs. Joeman might be a formidable task as well! ;)Quote: beachbumbabsI think a WoV South could well work in Biloxi. I bet we could get at least a dozen to come out.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
January 14th, 2018 at 4:34:38 PM
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WOV-South might be a nice idea but NOT on the New Port Richey Sun Cruz boat packed with NY retirees and slot machines. Although Ive never been sure if this was operating and whether it was a shuttle or a day cruise, it seems there FIFTY aboard and authorities rescued 49 of them when fire broke out today.
January 15th, 2018 at 6:51:37 AM
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Strange.
Fire broke out only 300 feat from shore and water, although cold, was only waist deep.
Fire broke out only 300 feat from shore and water, although cold, was only waist deep.
January 17th, 2018 at 4:46:37 AM
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Backstory on fiery boat: http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/Here-s-the-backstory-of-the-Pasco-casino-boat-operator-whose-ship-caught-on-fire_164556601
Shoestring operation that used the SunCruz name by agreement with the infamous SunCruz entity related to the Gambino family in NYC. Claimed the right to continued use of the SunCruz name for commercial purposes despite having no connection to the Gambino related murder of the founder of the SunCruz company after Gambino family showed up as "new partner, zero buyin'.
Also operated under name PairofDice, Paradise, et. al running boat out of St. John's Pass shopping center. Opened shore based bingohall, faced local political pressure, ran boat without preventative maintenance program.
Shoestring operation that used the SunCruz name by agreement with the infamous SunCruz entity related to the Gambino family in NYC. Claimed the right to continued use of the SunCruz name for commercial purposes despite having no connection to the Gambino related murder of the founder of the SunCruz company after Gambino family showed up as "new partner, zero buyin'.
Also operated under name PairofDice, Paradise, et. al running boat out of St. John's Pass shopping center. Opened shore based bingohall, faced local political pressure, ran boat without preventative maintenance program.
January 17th, 2018 at 7:11:43 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffBackstory on fiery boat: http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/Here-s-the-backstory-of-the-Pasco-casino-boat-operator-whose-ship-caught-on-fire_164556601
Shoestring operation that used the SunCruz name by agreement with the infamous SunCruz entity related to the Gambino family in NYC. Claimed the right to continued use of the SunCruz name for commercial purposes despite having no connection to the Gambino related murder of the founder of the SunCruz company after Gambino family showed up as "new partner, zero buyin'.
Also operated under name PairofDice, Paradise, et. al running boat out of St. John's Pass shopping center. Opened shore based bingohall, faced local political pressure, ran boat without preventative maintenance program.
Locals in the area have many “stories” to tell about this operation, but none are verified by me and I wouldn’t feel right posting them. Let’s just say, player beware.
January 18th, 2018 at 5:13:31 PM
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Quote: BozLocals in the area have many “stories” to tell about this operation, but none are verified by me and I wouldn’t feel right posting them. Let’s just say, player beware.
Aw, c'mon, Boz. I live on the East Coast so I have the lovely (really) Victory handy. No idea what they're running over there. Only a few odd stories here and there about the barge.
I'm appalled a woman actually died in this fiasco.
A 12 foot drop into shallow water? How would the Captain think that was a good idea? People break bones falling that far. Maybe it was the best of several bad options, but the water wouldn't cushion you at all, let alone sharp debris that might be on the bottom. Geez. Need 4-5 feet to work with, getting shallower.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
January 18th, 2018 at 5:21:32 PM
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I don't think anyone who took the plunge thought it was a good idea, just better than not doing it, Thick dark smoke, intense heat, fast-moving fuel fed fire. Jump and hope no one lands on top of you.
NOTE:
Victory casino ship: Free boarding and two free drinks on Fan Appreciation Day...tomorrow the 19th. Just register for it by clicking on their facebook link for either day or night cruise,
NOTE:
Victory casino ship: Free boarding and two free drinks on Fan Appreciation Day...tomorrow the 19th. Just register for it by clicking on their facebook link for either day or night cruise,
January 18th, 2018 at 5:56:42 PM
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Quote: beachbumbabsAw, c'mon, Boz. I live on the East Coast so I have the lovely (really) Victory handy. No idea what they're running over there. Only a few odd stories here and there about the barge.
I'm appalled a woman actually died in this fiasco.
A 12 foot drop into shallow water? How would the Captain think that was a good idea? People break bones falling that far. Maybe it was the best of several bad options, but the water wouldn't cushion you at all, let alone sharp debris that might be on the bottom. Geez. Need 4-5 feet to work with, getting shallower.
My Florida place is “close” to this area and of course I inquired about the casino. Nothing good to be heard. Nothing was said about the boat taking you there, but I think the captain did the best he could with a boat on fire. Time will tell if it was just an accident or cutting corners. I hope it was the former.
January 19th, 2018 at 5:07:30 PM
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It seems they already have a replacement boat? Where did it come from?
I still don't know if there is an offshore casino on some sand bar or the gambling is on the boat but only in international waters,
Seems its appeal is the five dollar minmum as opposed to Tampa's 25.00 minimum. Craps was only Friday and Saturday.
Website seems mysteriously similar to old Moss Marine's Big M casino boat that closed several years ago.
Strange.
I still don't know if there is an offshore casino on some sand bar or the gambling is on the boat but only in international waters,
Seems its appeal is the five dollar minmum as opposed to Tampa's 25.00 minimum. Craps was only Friday and Saturday.
Website seems mysteriously similar to old Moss Marine's Big M casino boat that closed several years ago.
Strange.
January 19th, 2018 at 7:15:41 PM
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I have never been on that boat. My impression/understanding is that the casino boat is normally anchored in international waters, while the shuttle boat/boats move players between the port and the casino. This reduces/eliminates the lost gaming time experienced when using the casino boat as a shuttle.Quote: FleaStiffI still don't know if there is an offshore casino on some sand bar or the gambling is on the boat but only in international waters.
January 23rd, 2018 at 2:17:52 AM
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Casino said to be nine miles offshore which I do not think is "international waters' but don't know for sure.
Captain of boat at time of fire had a history of drunk driving offenses but not for several years.
Casino company will make no additional statements about the accident, the boat or its captain,
Captain of boat at time of fire had a history of drunk driving offenses but not for several years.
Casino company will make no additional statements about the accident, the boat or its captain,
January 23rd, 2018 at 2:40:33 AM
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November vote in Florida on constitutional amendment re casino gambling,
Both Seminoles and Disney related interests funded the measure . 800,000 signatures got it on the table.
Sixty percent of voters in November must vote yes to pass the amendment.
Both Seminoles and Disney related interests funded the measure . 800,000 signatures got it on the table.
Sixty percent of voters in November must vote yes to pass the amendment.
January 23rd, 2018 at 5:05:31 AM
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Quote: FleaStiffCasino said to be nine miles offshore which I do not think is "international waters' but don't know for sure.
Like most American coastlines, the State of Florida has authority out 3 miles on its Atlantic Ocean seacoast. But, because of strange historic provisions of Spanish law, Florida has authority out 9 miles on its coast along the Gulf of Mexico.
January 23rd, 2018 at 5:48:27 AM
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Just better to stay away from something like this.
January 23rd, 2018 at 7:21:15 AM
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For sure. Yes, two days a week they have an actual craps game at a real table with low minimums, but if its a sloppily run, shoestring operation with insufficient fire suppression equipment its best to just go to the nearby Tampa Seminole joint or save your money for a while and go to Biloxi.Quote: speedycrapJust better to stay away from something like this.
Five dollar minimums are nice, fires are not.
January 26th, 2018 at 7:46:17 AM
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I don't want to beat this to death but I was curious about the ONE death but no one else has serious injuries and only real concern for the others was borderline hypothermia due to cold water immersion.
Hospital was going to transfer victim to a burn center but did not know what if anything in the smoke could have affected the victim so significantly. Prior to any such transfer being made, the victim died.
Hospital had been informed of a boat fire, large quantity of thick black smoke, cold water immersion. Apparently no one had specifically informed the hospital of a bare-footed trek across barnacle encrusted obstacles in order to reach shelter.
Coroner expects several more weeks of testing and will not make interim reports.
Looking more and more like it was an extreme reaction to a barnacle related toxin despite only minor bruising on the feet rather than a reaction to a component of the smoke,
On=edit: It seems it was the toxin that was affecting the throat and her breathing muscles, she had merely complained of her feet hurting but did not say anything about the intensity of the foot pain. This of course is more reasonable an explanation than one person having a fatal reaction to smoke and everyone else having only extremely mild reactions to the smoke and its many components.
Hospital was going to transfer victim to a burn center but did not know what if anything in the smoke could have affected the victim so significantly. Prior to any such transfer being made, the victim died.
Hospital had been informed of a boat fire, large quantity of thick black smoke, cold water immersion. Apparently no one had specifically informed the hospital of a bare-footed trek across barnacle encrusted obstacles in order to reach shelter.
Coroner expects several more weeks of testing and will not make interim reports.
Looking more and more like it was an extreme reaction to a barnacle related toxin despite only minor bruising on the feet rather than a reaction to a component of the smoke,
On=edit: It seems it was the toxin that was affecting the throat and her breathing muscles, she had merely complained of her feet hurting but did not say anything about the intensity of the foot pain. This of course is more reasonable an explanation than one person having a fatal reaction to smoke and everyone else having only extremely mild reactions to the smoke and its many components.
Last edited by: FleaStiff on Jan 26, 2018
January 30th, 2018 at 2:32:12 AM
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I mean we are all gamblers here and we look to the percentages involved. I forget when it is 50 whether you double or half the number to get it on the basis of 100 but whether it is 2 percent or 0.5 percent, it sure is an extreme result and that is why I was suspicious of one death versus eight people who only shivered in the cold but were fine when they got a blanket and some hot coffee.Quote: FleaStiffThis of course is more reasonable an explanation than one person having a fatal reaction to smoke and everyone else having only extremely mild reactions to the smoke and its many components.
50 passengers, 8 taken to hospital for hypothermia not smoke inhalation, no specialists called, no one admitted to the hospital, all 8 released from the ER fairly promptly. Then one of the 50 shows up hours later and winds up kicking the bucket while awaiting an ambulance and some paperwork.
It was JDLR on the math. And it was JDLR on the causation. I've seen firemen that had to be dragged out by two fellow firefighters and dragged to a respirator. Smoke inhalation problems set in right away they don't set in hours later and get worse slowly. Someone in her forties doesn't die from a smoky fire while all those retirees in their sixties live through it.
February 3rd, 2018 at 4:50:55 AM
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Federal judge has stayed all state court actions involving the incident.
Federal judge has ruled that all claims and settlements must be filed by March 23rd.
Total amount the casino company can be held liable for is 23,700. That is the total for all claimants, not each of them, The boat was destined for international waters so the company is allowed to proceed under maritime laws rather than Florida tort laws even though most injuries were received within fifty feet of shore.
Federal judge has ruled that all claims and settlements must be filed by March 23rd.
Total amount the casino company can be held liable for is 23,700. That is the total for all claimants, not each of them, The boat was destined for international waters so the company is allowed to proceed under maritime laws rather than Florida tort laws even though most injuries were received within fifty feet of shore.
February 13th, 2018 at 3:54:59 AM
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Millions riding on gambling in Florida legislative/courts/lobbyists/Tribe/Voters showdown.
Craps and Roulette (as table games, not pseudo-slots) a distinct possibility.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article199619024.html
Tribe insisting on stricter enforcement of slots and cards at racinos that no longer have races, but Tribe wary of casino competition in its existing Miami area monopoly.
Craps and Roulette (as table games, not pseudo-slots) a distinct possibility.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article199619024.html
Tribe insisting on stricter enforcement of slots and cards at racinos that no longer have races, but Tribe wary of casino competition in its existing Miami area monopoly.
