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odiousgambit
odiousgambit 
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May 22nd, 2016 at 9:45:36 AM permalink
Quote: LuckyPhow, from another thread

Sounds like an interesting subject to discuss, but best to discuss it on a separate thread somewhere else. But, I'm game.
I'm mighty new here, so I claim no particular knowledge of where might be best. That said, why don't you start a tread -- maybe in the "Other" subsection of the "Gambling Business" Forum. Something like, "Gaming Legal Battles in Florida," or something similar. No telling what info we might dredge from the folks at this site. I'll help by trying to answer your initial info request, and we'll see where it goes from there.



OK, here it is

I visit a brother once in a while in FL, not so far from Seminole Hard Rock Casino, Tampa , and would love for them to get a Craps Table and generally more table games. So I have tried to follow recent developments, but it seems like a lot of infighting and jockeying for position in the politics, complicated by what IIRC the Seminoles but also the racetracks have gotten in previous arrangements. It seems to be a delay in the inevitable, but what do you or anyone think about what we will seen in the end?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
mrsuit31
mrsuit31
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May 22nd, 2016 at 10:07:48 AM permalink
Quote: odiousgambit

OK, here it is

I visit a brother once in a while in FL, not so far from Seminole Hard Rock Casino, Tampa , and would love for them to get a Craps Table and generally more table games. So I have tried to follow recent developments, but it seems like a lot of infighting and jockeying for position in the politics, complicated by what IIRC the Seminoles but also the racetracks have gotten in previous arrangements. It seems to be a delay in the inevitable, but what do you or anyone think about what we will seen in the end?



My info is a few months outdated. But....

Last thing I remember happening down there is that the Seminoles renegotiated/renewed their compact to allow for these specialty games to come in (craps and real roulette). The reason for this being that the state run pari- mutuals (I THINK limited to dade and broward counties) would be allowed to have standard table games such as blackjack. I'm not sure if that part had been passed by the legislature. The reason for this would be to allow the state to continue to collect the gaming revenue taxes on the specialty games run by the Seminoles while gaining table games in the state run facilities.Under federal law, the state can only collect tax on games that are not allowed in the state run facilities. In this case that would be the specialty games...

I'm not sure what has transpired over the last few months, as I haven't closely followed... But that's what I believed to be the situation.

So to answer the question. I think eventually we will see full casinos, minus the specialty games, in some of the pari mutuals, and if allowed, bigger resort casinos at some of the new and established hotels like the margaritavile and the diplomat. Again however, I think that may be limited to dade and broward county.
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beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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May 22nd, 2016 at 10:22:47 AM permalink
The governor agreed to a new compact that allowed table games to continue, and craps and roulette (vegas style, not card craps or whatever ) to be added at their properties only. Not sure how that affected the racetrack and card room properties, but I don't believe they're offered house/banked games still, whatever else changed for them in this.

However ,the compact required approval by the Florida legislature, which refused to bring it to the floor in the last session, and adjourned without acting. So the Seminoles are running games under an expired compact, and nobody seems to know what happens next. I'm not sure why the state hasn't already shut down their non-slot activities; there was talk of it when it looked like the legislature was stalling. Must have come to some kind of interim agreement. Maybe not, and the state just isn't willing to enforce the sunset of the compact.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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May 22nd, 2016 at 10:33:20 AM permalink
What will we see in the end, after everyone in Florida stops fighting over whether or not this or that kind of gambling is allowed? My short answer is, I haven't a clue.

Others -- often vendors at the Southern Gaming Summit held each May in Biloxi -- who indicate they have (some kind of) an informed perspective say they expect more gambling, and more types of gambling, to come to Florida. But, more than 5 years ago they were telling me it would happen within 5 years, and it hasn't. But, they still tell me to expect it.

Florida's gaming environment is complex. Jai-alai has lost about 100% of its former popularity. Dog tracks have few bettors and many folks are concerned about treatment of the dogs. Some horse tracks make money, but others would close if they didn't receive $$ from slots and card games played on the property. Declining horse track "stakes" (paid to the horse owners) adversely impact the horse breeding industry, which is big in Florida. The Seminole tribe in Florida wants Craps and Roulette, but no additional competition. Disney, also with deep pockets, wants no additional gaming in the state.

That leaves state government. The state agency responsible for providing gaming oversight probably does the best it can with Florida's patchwork collection of gaming laws. But, it is poorly equipped to do the job right, and it gets scant support from either the Governor or the Florida Legislature. And, since state government doesn't do the job right, it now must defend its actions -- good or bad, right or wrong -- in several complex legal battles. I sometimes read the court decisions, briefs, and depositions. My take is that those driving the bus haven't a clue. It almost makes some of the testimony embarrassing to read. (No good examples at hand right now, but stay tuned. I'll keep an eye out.)

Sorry to have to tell you, but I haven't a clue about what we will see in the end. Folks in the industry -- selling goods and services to Florida's gaming establishments -- continue to tell me in the (hopefully, not too distant) future we should expect to see more gaming and more types of gaming. However, I'm a gambler. And, I'm not betting one way or the other on this one. Not yet, anyway.
LuckyPhow
LuckyPhow
Joined: May 19, 2016
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May 22nd, 2016 at 10:58:26 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

The governor agreed to a new compact that allowed table games to continue, and craps and roulette (vegas style, not card craps or whatever ) to be added at their properties only. Not sure how that affected the racetrack and card room properties, but I don't believe they're offered house/banked games still, whatever else changed for them in this.

However ,the compact required approval by the Florida legislature, which refused to bring it to the floor in the last session, and adjourned without acting. So the Seminoles are running games under an expired compact, and nobody seems to know what happens next. I'm not sure why the state hasn't already shut down their non-slot activities; there was talk of it when it looked like the legislature was stalling. Must have come to some kind of interim agreement. Maybe not, and the state just isn't willing to enforce the sunset of the compact.



I agree with your summary of some of the recent events. One of the court cases was brought by the state to force Seminole casinos to remove their table games. The Seminoles sued, saying the state allowed table games about everywhere that were supposed to be available only to the Seminole properties. By allowing player-dealers, the state was not acting in good faith, thereby voiding the Compact. I think the two lawsuits were merged.

I get reasonably good info from Florida Gaming Watch. Understand, however, the site is largely the work of one of the big Florida law firms active in various legal actions. The site focuses on news, gaming agency rule changes, and similar (mostly) factual information.
DeMango
DeMango
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May 22nd, 2016 at 1:43:50 PM permalink
For me the answer is SWA. Fly to MSY or MEM, rent a car and drive to the best craps games in this country. Disagree? Tell a Vegas dealer you want to buy the 5. Deer in the headlights look is returned.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
whodat
whodat
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May 22nd, 2016 at 1:52:24 PM permalink
I agree. Only in MS can you buy the 5/9.
DeMango
DeMango
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May 23rd, 2016 at 1:00:10 AM permalink
Quote: whodat

I agree. Only in MS can you buy the 5/9.


Don't forget, vig on win only!
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
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February 17th, 2017 at 6:44:26 PM permalink
Now for some positive gambling news
My local casino
The Seminole Hard Rock Tampa (6th or 7th largest casino in the world. Big because no competition)
Have been charging 10 bucks for parking the last 6 months
Is returning to free parking
yippee
I have not been there in over 6 months
Now may pop by for their good buffet :-)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/free-parking-returning-to-tampas-hard-rock-casino-due-to-customer-concern/2313506
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
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February 18th, 2017 at 2:59:12 AM permalink
Quote: terapined

My local casino The Seminole Hard Rock Tampa (6th or 7th largest casino in the world)


Alas, my local casino is the Seminole Immokalee, a tiny little dump.

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