DRich
DRich
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 3:04:11 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146



1.) The casinos think that they will lose the business of some smokers if they go non-smoking. (I'd hope this can be generally accepted as at least partially true)



I can tell you that revenue went down 50% in Las Vegas when they outlawed smoking at the slot machines in grocery stores.
Order from chaos
Mission146
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May 26th, 2021 at 4:13:02 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I can tell you that revenue went down 50% in Las Vegas when they outlawed smoking at the slot machines in grocery stores.



Game. Set. Match.

At least on Government doing it without there at least being a public vote. Thanks!
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Marcusclark66
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 4:34:03 PM permalink
So many people here are saying, if the patrons can't smoke they won't go to the casino?

That doesn't make sense and I don't think that's exactly true in most cases. Even though people smoke, they still go to the casino they just stop doing what they're doing, they run outside they smoke they come back in. Same as any other business such as movie theaters, shopping malls, bars that don't allow smoking and all kinds of other public or private businesses and public areas that do not allow smoking.

If your a chain smoker and you need a cigarette hanging from your lips every minute of the day that you're awake, maybe those type of people don't go to the casino but if they want to gamble they will go even if there's no smoking allowed.

I work in casinos that allowed smoking in the past and several years ago cut some of it out prior to C19 and the rest of our casinos cut smoking out right after C19. I see the same people that are smokers and heavy smokers still coming to the casino all the time.

Non Smoker With A Huge Value on My Respiratory System
Marcus Clark
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Last edited by: Marcusclark66 on May 26, 2021
Marcus Clark. Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66. *Professional Casino Security Expert. *Certified Company Firearms Instructor. *Certified Gaming Regulations Interpreter for Corporate Applications. *Tic-Tac-Toe Expert (Real Competitive Versions) & Mastering Chess. *Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club. *Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members. *Certified Casino Property Entry & Exit Point Analyzer *Baccarat Winning Session Record: 11 out of 11 & 1 out of 1 Mini Session. Baccarat Losing Session Record: 2 Losing Sessions.
Gandler
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 5:11:55 PM permalink
Quote: Marcusclark66

So many people here are saying, if the patrons can't smoke they won't go to the casino?

That doesn't make sense and I don't think that's exactly true in most cases. Even though people smoke, they still go to the casino they just stop doing what they're doing, they run outside they smoke they come back in. Same as any other business such as movie theaters, shopping malls, bars that don't allow smoking and all kinds of other public or private businesses and public areas that do not allow smoking.

If your a chain smoker and you need a cigarette hanging from your lips every minute of the day that you're awake, maybe those type of people don't go to the casino but if they want to gamble they will go even if there's no smoking allowed.

I work in casinos that allowed smoking in the past and several years ago cut some of it out prior to C19 and the rest of our casinos cut ut out right after C19. I see the same people that are smokers and heavy smokers still coming to the casino all the time.

Non Smoker With A Huge Value on My Respiratory System
Marcus Clark
Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66
Professional Casino Security Expert
Certified Company Firearms Instructor
Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club




I do not think that anyone is disagreeing that people will still not go to casinos if smoking was banned. I am not sure what being a firearms instructor has to do with this?

But, its more about options. I am sure that you see this first hand since you post that you also work security. People enjoy smoking when they play. Some are smokers. Some are like me "opportunistic smokers" (will smoke a few times a year when in social situations). I think that casinos should set their own policies, that can be 100% nonsmoking, 100% smoking, or smoking only in allotted areas. And, then people can choose which experience they most enjoy.

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think of smoking as an addiction, nicotine is an addiction. Smoking is just one means to satisfy this. And, I would never be a regular smoker. But, I am not worried about having a few smokes a year, if it kills me, something was probably wrong to begin with.... I think I had one cigar with a friend around Xmas, and I have not had a cigarette since pre-Covid. Everything in moderation. I do agree that smoking is terrible for you (nobody disputes this), I wish it was not, because it is very enjoyable, but its reality (I also agree that I avoid it because it lowers your cardio ability which worries me most, more so than the long term risks there are, even if that is short sighted). There are a lot of things I enjoy that are unhealthy so I either avoid or consume in extreme moderation (red meat for another example, food examples are endless and would get quite off topic).

The main reason I like smoking to remain in casinos, is because I like options. Once when I was in Texas I took a roadtrip with some friends to some casino (not in Texas), I honestly do not know the State, but somewhere within driving distance of Texas. And, the casino had no tobacco and no alcohol allowed (not just no free drinks, no alcohol at all). It was completely boring, no alcohol and no tobacco in a casino changes the experience more than you realize until you no longer have it (I honestly do not know if this was State Law, Tribal Law, or just casino policy, I don't even remember the State that this was let alone the casino). Casinos are not health spas (not for me anyway), when you try to make them such it takes out the intrigue of casinos. If people want casinos with no alcohol and no tobacco let casinos design themselves in this way, but don't force changes. I think separated smoking areas is a very fair solution. Many nonsmokers will not be satisfied until smoking is 100% banned, and many smokers want to smoke everywhere. Separate areas is a reasonable compromise (that I think the vast majority of smokers are also fine with if they think it though, because it precludes them about having to worry about offending people near them if they light up). I stand by my claim that the 75/25 split is very reasonable.
DeMango
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Mission146gordonm888
May 26th, 2021 at 5:22:24 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

I may be in the minority here, but I don't think of smoking as an addiction, nicotine is an addiction. Smoking is just one means to satisfy this.



Just wow, what a medical statement! Yep you be in the same minority as the Earth is flat.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
mcallister3200
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 5:22:37 PM permalink
Quote: Gandler

. Separate areas is a reasonable compromise (that I think the vast majority of smokers are also fine with if they think it though, because it precludes them about having to worry about offending people near them if they light up). I stand by my claim that the 75/25 split is very reasonable.



Separate areas is effectively what casinos in states or municipalities that donít allow it have done. Rather elaborate, semi indoor heated patio type things, essentially semi enclosed porches with slot machines. The difference is itís ACTUALLY a separate area. AC has areas, with poor enforcement, that are non smoking, but not smoke free areas because they are not really separate areas.
Gandler
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 5:37:09 PM permalink
Quote: DeMango

Just wow, what a medical statement! Yep you be in the same minority as the Earth is flat.



I really do not think I should be. Nicotine is highly addictive. Smoking itself is not. You can technically smoke many substances that are not addictive (such as herbal cigarettes used by nonsmoking actors in most modern films where they have to smoke as an easy example). I really do not think this is fair to say the act of smoking itself is not addictive to being convinced that the earth is flat. Yes, there are some rituals that smokers enjoy that play a psychological impact, but at the end of the day it is the nicotine that gets people addicted.

I think Electronic Vaping is a great tool for smokers who are addicted to both nicotine and the feel of smoking to get off of cigarettes, because it appears to satisfy both the need for nicotine and the rituals of smoking, but this is getting too off topic. I just don't think that statement is as controversial as you are making it out to be.

For example (hopefully this is not getting too political), the FDA is considering mandating that nicotine be removed from cigarettes. They are doing this because they know people will stop smoking cigarettes if there is no nicotine. This would essentially make everyone a nonsmoker overnight (they would switch to alternative nicotine products). I am not saying that I support this, but it is just evidence that it is the nicotine that people care about, not the act of smoking. I doubt this will be implemented in the near future regardless of my views (it will be challenged endlessly for decades), but its just to illustrate the point that it is the nicotine that is addicting. But, if cigarettes did not have nicotine, nobody would smoke them (okay maybe a handful of people would to prove a point, but you get the idea), it would be like taking caffeine out of coffee (and yes I am aware of decaf).


Quote: mcallister3200

Separate areas is effectively what casinos in states or municipalities that donít allow it have done. Rather elaborate, semi indoor heated patio type things, essentially semi enclosed porches with slot machines. The difference is itís ACTUALLY a separate area. AC has areas, with poor enforcement, that are non smoking, but they are not smoke free because they are not really separate areas.



I will admit enforcement does vary by casino. And, I honestly don't have a huge issue with that as somebody who thinks business should have the ultimate say on how to enforce their policies. Some casinos are quite strict to be fair, I have seen security jump all over people for having a quick pull of a vape in a nonsmoking area. It also probably depends on how busy it is, its hard to single out individual smokers when there are thousands of people wandering around. But, when it is the quiet season and people are dotted around its very easily to spot people violating the rules. I feel the severity of enforcement should be the discretion of management. For the most part most people follow the rules, and those that do not are usually an honest mistake (accidentally walking over the line with a cigar without realizing it etc.....)
DRich
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 6:12:59 PM permalink
Quote: Marcusclark66

So many people here are saying, if the patrons can't smoke they won't go to the casino?

That doesn't make sense and I don't think that's exactly true in most cases. Even though people smoke, they still go to the casino they just stop doing what they're doing, they run outside they smoke they come back in. Same as any other business such as movie theaters, shopping malls, bars that don't allow smoking and all kinds of other public or private businesses and public areas that do not allow smoking.

If your a chain smoker and you need a cigarette hanging from your lips every minute of the day that you're awake, maybe those type of people don't go to the casino but if they want to gamble they will go even if there's no smoking allowed.

I work in casinos that allowed smoking in the past and several years ago cut some of it out prior to C19 and the rest of our casinos cut smoking out right after C19. I see the same people that are smokers and heavy smokers still coming to the casino all the time.

Non Smoker With A Huge Value on My Respiratory System
Marcus Clark
Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66
Professional Casino Security Expert
Certified Company Firearms Instructor
Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club



The difference is that if the smoker does come to the casino he doesn't stay very long. Many smoking patrons were only playing 30% of their usual handle after the law changed.
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TDVegas
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Mission146
May 26th, 2021 at 11:09:54 PM permalink
There might be some short term decline...but the basic conclusions are the economic effects are minimal on smoking bans. I take studies like this over anecdotal reporting. No insult intended.

https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3837&context=thesesdissertations
DeMango
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Mission146TDVegas
May 26th, 2021 at 11:20:38 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

There might be some short term decline...but the basic conclusions are the economic effects are minimal on smoking bans. I take studies like this over anecdotal reporting. No insult intended.

https://digitalscholarship.unlv.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3837&context=thesesdissertations



Great article, only need to read a few pages to realize smoking needs to cease ASAP, because there will be neglible monetary effects for casinos.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.

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