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Boz
Boz
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July 7th, 2018 at 5:30:47 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

Quote: 100xOdds

seen at soft opening:



lol


A week after opening:



seems like they cant keep the 'D' up :)



So Caesars is operating them already?
Boz
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July 7th, 2018 at 5:39:18 PM permalink
Great reports and info so far but Iím more interested in the AC situation in the winter of 19/20. Obviously the luster of 2 new casinos will wear off this fall and winter when AC is a empty other than holidays and some weekends if sports betting takes off.

Who will pull the trigger first on either throwing in the towel and closing or going all in and trying to get the remaining pool of NJ Gamblers? Nothing has changed to increase the number of visitors to AC unless someone can gain conventions, so obviously the math doesnít work.

AC is ghost town on winter weekdays and there no way it can support 9 casinos. So who blinks first?

Definitely will be interesting.
Jmarch79
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July 8th, 2018 at 12:18:54 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Great reports and info so far but Iím more interested in the AC situation in the winter of 19/20. Obviously the luster of 2 new casinos will wear off this fall and winter when AC is a empty other than holidays and some weekends if sports betting takes off.

Who will pull the trigger first on either throwing in the towel and closing or going all in and trying to get the remaining pool of NJ Gamblers? Nothing has changed to increase the number of visitors to AC unless someone can gain conventions, so obviously the math doesnít work.

AC is ghost town on winter weekdays and there no way it can support 9 casinos. So who blinks first?

Definitely will be interesting.



In my opinion, the market can withstand 8 casinos with no problem. Even all 9 if we can see decent growth, but I wouldn't bet we're going to see huge growth numbers in this particular gaming market.

My guess is CET closes the main Bally's floor and hotel. They keep the Wild Wild West open as an addition to Caesars.

My more detailed opinion is: I think without a doubt, Borgata will be fine. I do think Hard Rock will take a nice chunk of their share though. Which brings us to Hard Rock who I believe is secure as they have no public debt and big pockets. Harrah's should be fine as they captured a nice midweek business by adding the Waterfront Convention Center. On the same note, Ocean Resort should be fine as well. They have a massive amount of convention space and with the Hyatt affiliation (who will be selling their meetings) should be able to secure midweek business. Most think Ocean has no shot, but $200M in debt to service is a lot easier than $2.4B when it was Revel. Golden Nugget and Resorts have a core group of guests who are loyal. Both properties don't have a massive debt load and the past has shown can withstand the slower seasons. Resorts may even get nice boost being on the new 'it' side of town. Tropicana has always done well weekends and have invested a ton of money refreshing the place. With Eldorado Resorts just buying the joint, I'd imagine they have a solid plan. Finally, Caesars and Bally's - Caesars has a group of loyal players and believe it or not, gets a ton of high-end action. I think they're going to take a decent size hit to gaming revenues. Bally's is the one that really concerns me. I am not sure what they can do at this point.

The biggest screw-up the state and local government made (besides not cleaning up the city) is not investing in the airport. They have a market with almost 20,000 hotel rooms and could easily handle medium size conventions - MIDWEEK! Not all conventioneers will play on the gaming floor, but they have to eat, most will drink and they absolutely will be paying for their hotel rooms. If they would have invested in the airport so that the major airlines would want to fly into ACY, they could have absolutely attracted that midweek convention business that they desperately need. It is what it is at this point....I am going to remain bullish on the AC market and hope it makes a comeback.
aceofspades
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July 8th, 2018 at 4:57:41 AM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

*EXCERPT*

The biggest screw-up the state and local government made (besides not cleaning up the city) is not investing in the airport




Without cleaning up the city, it is difficult to attract conventions
beachbumbabs
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July 8th, 2018 at 7:38:04 AM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

In my opinion, the market can withstand 8 casinos with no problem. Even all 9 if we can see decent growth, but I wouldn't bet we're going to see huge growth numbers in this particular gaming market.

My guess is CET closes the main Bally's floor and hotel. They keep the Wild Wild West open as an addition to Caesars.

My more detailed opinion is: I think without a doubt, Borgata will be fine. I do think Hard Rock will take a nice chunk of their share though. Which brings us to Hard Rock who I believe is secure as they have no public debt and big pockets. Harrah's should be fine as they captured a nice midweek business by adding the Waterfront Convention Center. On the same note, Ocean Resort should be fine as well. They have a massive amount of convention space and with the Hyatt affiliation (who will be selling their meetings) should be able to secure midweek business. Most think Ocean has no shot, but $200M in debt to service is a lot easier than $2.4B when it was Revel. Golden Nugget and Resorts have a core group of guests who are loyal. Both properties don't have a massive debt load and the past has shown can withstand the slower seasons. Resorts may even get nice boost being on the new 'it' side of town. Tropicana has always done well weekends and have invested a ton of money refreshing the place. With Eldorado Resorts just buying the joint, I'd imagine they have a solid plan. Finally, Caesars and Bally's - Caesars has a group of loyal players and believe it or not, gets a ton of high-end action. I think they're going to take a decent size hit to gaming revenues. Bally's is the one that really concerns me. I am not sure what they can do at this point.

The biggest screw-up the state and local government made (besides not cleaning up the city) is not investing in the airport. They have a market with almost 20,000 hotel rooms and could easily handle medium size conventions - MIDWEEK! Not all conventioneers will play on the gaming floor, but they have to eat, most will drink and they absolutely will be paying for their hotel rooms. If they would have invested in the airport so that the major airlines would want to fly into ACY, they could have absolutely attracted that midweek convention business that they desperately need. It is what it is at this point....I am going to remain bullish on the AC market and hope it makes a comeback.



ACY airport is actually one of the best in the country, and can accept virtually all aircraft flying. The FAA Technical Center is there, and so they get all the best, cutting-edge equipment installed first or close to first, so the FAA can do long-term testing and maintenance training.

The longest runway is 10,000 ft, which works for every pax jet flying in the US. Landing minimums are below 300' and 1/2 mile visibility , and takeoff minimums 1/4 mile viz, all very standard.

Airlines have tried regular routes many times. The passengers aren't there to sustain them. I'm quite sure ACY would expand their terminal to more gates if the demand was there. But gates aren't necessary. Planes can simply load and unload to the ramp.

The issues are:

Philadelphia is only 50 miles away. There's a train, shuttles, and rental cars to AC. PHL has major air carrier service. It's not cost effective for airlines to serve both.

DC is 4 hours drive. NYC about the same. Lots of buses from both, lots of people want a car in AC. Local transportation in AC sucked last time I was there, and I'm not aware it's improved. So people drive.

AC is a regional destination. Hardly anybody flies in from further away than they can drive.

And, yeah, the place is a pit with a few casinos. The airport is ready, willing, and able to take a lot more traffic than it gets. But as a destination, it runs far behind Vegas, Orlando, NYC, a dozen others that offer variety and a complete resort experience.
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Jmarch79
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July 8th, 2018 at 7:50:14 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

ACY airport is actually one of the best in the country, and can accept virtually all aircraft flying. The FAA Technical Center is there, and so they get all the best, cutting-edge equipment installed first or close to first, so the FAA can do long-term testing and maintenance training.

The longest runway is 10,000 ft, which works for every pax jet flying in the US. Landing minimums are below 300' and 1/2 mile visibility , and takeoff minimums 1/4 mile viz, all very standard.

Airlines have tried regular routes many times. The passengers aren't there to sustain them. I'm quite sure ACY would expand their terminal to more gates if the demand was there. But gates aren't necessary. Planes can simply load and unload to the ramp.

The issues are:

Philadelphia is only 50 miles away. There's a train, shuttles, and rental cars to AC. PHL has major air carrier service. It's not cost effective for airlines to serve both.

DC is 4 hours drive. NYC about the same. Lots of buses from both, lots of people want a car in AC. Local transportation in AC sucked last time I was there, and I'm not aware it's improved. So people drive.

AC is a regional destination. Hardly anybody flies in from further away than they can drive.

And, yeah, the place is a pit with a few casinos. The airport is ready, willing, and able to take a lot more traffic than it gets. But as a destination, it runs far behind Vegas, Orlando, NYC, a dozen others that offer variety and a complete resort experience.



Thanks for the details on ACY...very informative. While I agree it could never do the convention numbers of the cities you mentioned, it could still do a nice amount. This is where the local convention/visitors authority would get involved. The ACCVA would offer these groups incentives to come to AC and bring their medium to large-ish conventions to AC. That would literally be their primary role. It is not rocket science and cities have done it in the past - extremely successfully.

No one is discounting the fact the city is in the pits (hence why I said the airport was the biggest problem besides them not cleaning up the city.) They need to make that priority #1, but if the local government would get their heads out of their you know whats, they could really turn that city around for the better.
mcallister3200
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July 8th, 2018 at 7:54:50 AM permalink
As of now, it is about the most pointless regional airport in the country.
GWAE
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July 8th, 2018 at 12:45:48 PM permalink
Quote: aceofspades

Without cleaning up the city, it is difficult to attract conventions



That does not play a factor with conventions. I am going to be there in Aug for a large corporate convention. They dont care about rest of the city. 1 big factor though is getting there. It is not easy to fly in
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Sandybestdog
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July 9th, 2018 at 4:25:31 PM permalink
I went to the openings and hung around for a few days. Ocean was nice. I had never gone to the Revel. I did find the circular floor layout a little confusing. I could never quite figure out where I was. I hope it does well. The new owner seems like a good guy.

Hard Rock was also nice. You could hardly tell it was the same place as the Taj. They spent a lot of money on it.

You could tell both places didnít just reopen from when they closed. They were very clean, even the parking garages(hint hint, Ballyís) and had great lighting. I despise paying for parking, so the free parking was great. The lines were very long to get a players card, so I skipped that. There did seem to be a lot more people getting cards and walking around and not as many playing. Plenty of $10-15 blackjack tables open.

One thing I donít like about AC in general is it seems really difficult to get anything to eat there. I mean literally. I go there to gamble. I couldnít care less about fancy restaurants. Both places seemed to have a lot of sit down places. I literally just want a place that I can go order a beef fried rice without getting ripped off and eat it. The struggle is real.
rsactuary
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July 9th, 2018 at 9:18:33 PM permalink
Quote: Jmarch79

While I agree it could never do the convention numbers of the cities you mentioned, it could still do a nice amount.



The company I worked for did a huge convention at Harrah's AC last year. The benefit of AC was that it could handle the thousand or so people, with hotel rooms that were far cheaper than what was available in Philly or NYC (where I would estimate 50% of those 1000 people live).

It was well run, and they sure made some money in the casino off of us.

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