Poll

7 votes (41.17%)
6 votes (35.29%)
3 votes (17.64%)
No votes (0%)
1 vote (5.88%)
2 votes (11.76%)
8 votes (47.05%)
4 votes (23.52%)
No votes (0%)
6 votes (35.29%)

17 members have voted

Mission146
Mission146
Joined: May 15, 2012
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March 3rd, 2018 at 6:55:50 AM permalink
Greetings!

My most recent, "People in Gambling," article takes a look at our President, Donald J. Trump, and his time as casino builder/owner/President/shareholder in Atlantic City:

https://wizardofvegas.com/articles/people-in-gambling-donald-trump/

I get the political stuff out of the way pretty early on and try to come up with an overview of his time in the city and what he accomplished that I think is, "Fair." We also explore the many bankruptcies of his casinos in the city, what precipitated them and why they both made sense and were by design...to some degree.

Ultimately, I conclude by giving Trump some credit for everything that he accomplished, so I hope anyone with an interest in A.C. will take the time to give this a read and hopefully enjoy it.

I've also set up another poll, multiple options can be chosen and only the first few are at all serious.
Vultures can't be choosers.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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March 3rd, 2018 at 8:06:45 AM permalink
I missed the poll choice about
"Lied to his investors, over-promised and over-sold, screwed his employees and contractors."

Specific to events building his casinos, as told in his Art of the Deal book with pride, not meant to be a political comment.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mission146
Mission146
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March 3rd, 2018 at 8:12:37 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I missed the poll choice about
"Lied to his investors, over-promised and over-sold, screwed his employees and contractors."

Specific to events building his casinos, as told in his Art of the Deal book with pride, not meant to be a political comment.



Naturally, this is definitely not meant to be a political thread...at least...to as much of an extent as it can avoid being.

I agree that he oversold and overpromised, but his goal was to get the casinos built and that's what he did. I'm also curious as to more detail as the investors to whom you're referring. The bondholders? The bonds had an interest rate of 14%, so that's pretty inherently going to represent a not insignificant likelihood of default. The result is that the bondholders ended up as shareholders in the casinos via, "Structured Bankruptcy."

I mean, if you're saying his plan was immoral and wrong, then that's one thing. I can't really argue with that. I'm just saying that he had a plan and executed it over and over again while people continued to invest with him. At a certain point, you have to think the bondholders would know what's going to happen.
Vultures can't be choosers.
beachbumbabs
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beachbumbabs
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Mission146Froide
March 3rd, 2018 at 9:32:35 AM permalink
Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.

Taj build was dead. Dusty huge lot sitting idle. He was broke and overextended, notes due. But he had a Fish in the line. He booked a lunch at the finest restaurant in AC that overlooked the work site from a high angle, and made sure they were seated at the window.

He spent money that he didn't have, for just that day, and hired several large construction machines (graders, concrete drum trucks, whatever) and a bunch of day laborers. Handed them tools and hard hats, and told them all to look busy and productive.

So the guy showed up, Trump showed him what and where in great detail while they ordered and ate, busy busy busy worksite, acted like he had all the money he needed, just wanted to treat him to a good lunch. They guy talked Trump into "letting him invest".

He, along with the rest, lost his investment (I'm told) in one of the bankruptcies.

Told me EVERYTHING I ever wanted to know about Trump. I wish it had told those of you who still buy his bs. We don't need this guy.

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

How much of a con man do you have to be, to have gone 8 billion in the hole? How bad of an actual businessman do you have to be, to have resources and investors like that in the early 90s and be that far upside down? And he didn't even pay his contractors and employees! Labor is generally 35-60% of overhead, depending on the business. Where did the money go?
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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March 3rd, 2018 at 10:20:45 AM permalink
Driving to AC from Pennsylvania without directions isnít all that hard. Pretty much a single road.
RogerKint
RogerKint
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RS
March 3rd, 2018 at 10:26:03 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs


Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."



...and then he ate a baby.
100% risk of ruin
Mission146
Mission146
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March 3rd, 2018 at 10:29:51 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Driving to AC from Pennsylvania without directions isnít all that hard. Pretty much a single road.



I really meant from the Marina properties to the Boardwalk ones and any place you might want to go in between. (Like Chelsea II Pizza!)
Vultures can't be choosers.
Mission146
Mission146
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March 3rd, 2018 at 10:34:01 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.

Taj build was dead. Dusty huge lot sitting idle. He was broke and overextended, notes due. But he had a Fish in the line. He booked a lunch at the finest restaurant in AC that overlooked the work site from a high angle, and made sure they were seated at the window.

He spent money that he didn't have, for just that day, and hired several large construction machines (graders, concrete drum trucks, whatever) and a bunch of day laborers. Handed them tools and hard hats, and told them all to look busy and productive.

So the guy showed up, Trump showed him what and where in great detail while they ordered and ate, busy busy busy worksite, acted like he had all the money he needed, just wanted to treat him to a good lunch. They guy talked Trump into "letting him invest".



I get all of that, I'm just saying that he accomplished what he was trying to do in the end. Besides, that guy should have figured that if Trump had the thing financed at a hugely positive expectation that he wouldn't need, "Investors." Why would I want other people to invest in an enterprise that I have financed if I think it is a sure thing?

Quote:

He, along with the rest, lost his investment (I'm told) in one of the bankruptcies.



If it was through the bonds, he would have ended up with a stake in the property, not that said stake would have necessarily went well...

Quote:

Told me EVERYTHING I ever wanted to know about Trump. I wish it had told those of you who still buy his bs. We don't need this guy.



I didn't vote for him.

Quote:

Fwiw, heard yesterday there's a story Ivanka used to tell. Ivanka was 8 so whatever year that was. She came out of a Trump property with her dad, going somewhere, and just outside the door was a homeless man on the sidewalk.

"See that man, Ivanka?" Trump asked, pointing him out. "Well, he's 8 billion dollars richer than your daddy."

How much of a con man do you have to be, to have gone 8 billion in the hole? How bad of an actual businessman do you have to be, to have resources and investors like that in the early 90s and be that far upside down? And he didn't even pay his contractors and employees! Labor is generally 35-60% of overhead, depending on the business. Where did the money go?



I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I just know that businesses succeed and fail every day and many of them initially finance or re-finance by selling junk bonds and taking high-interest loans. Anything after the Taj Mahal seems like a, "Shame on me if you fooled me twice," sort of thing.
Vultures can't be choosers.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Mission146
March 3rd, 2018 at 11:22:46 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


I don't know the answers to any of those questions. I just know that businesses succeed and fail every day and many of them initially finance or re-finance by selling junk bonds and taking high-interest loans. Anything after the Taj Mahal seems like a, "Shame on me if you fooled me twice," sort of thing.



Smart developers use as much of OPM as possible. Nobody invested in his bonds that did not want that nice, 14% return. How many projects anywhere go bad? The Stardust lot is still empty, how many loans went bad there? Why should Trump be held to a different standard I would ask?

For that matter, how is Trump different than the folks who overstated income to buy a home they could not afford in 2005?
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
AxelWolf
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Mission146Froide
March 3rd, 2018 at 11:51:46 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Saw an interview taped about 25 years ago, where he told a story on himself in the "I'm such a clever guy, I pulled THIS off" way.
?

He must be a VERY clever guy. Apparently, Trump should have gone to prison long ago, but instead of going to prison he became the president.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪

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