ALERT: Rap concert at the Borgata on Monday
Quote: bobsimsVienna, Milan, Budapest, Tokyo. Is it not amazing how the self-flagellating white leftists of this country do such logical contortions to publicly deny the truth that even their deluded minds know to be true?
C'mon, quit mincing your words: call a spade a spade.
Quote: bobsimsVienna, Milan, Budapest, Tokyo. Is it not amazing how the self-flagellating white leftists of this country do such logical contortions to publicly deny the truth that even their deluded minds know to be true?
Hey, look! more safe large cities! You're going to have to explain how it's the left that needs to contort things. Those are cities where gun control laws exist and violent crime rates are extremely low. Your position is that gun control laws increase the instance of violent crime... Umm...I win?
Edit: also, I'm not personally a leftist, so I'm not personally insulted by your post. I hope you don't get suspended for it. I just get sick of the insanely weak arguments put forth by the right. Using suspect counts and not convictions to prove stats re: race and violence? Comparing Vermont and Detroit like they're equal except for racial demography? Claiming that Chicago is dangerous because of gun control laws when London's controls are stricter and London is safer. Your side can win this fight on the merits. Your arguments are so bad that they weaken your path to victory.
Quote: KeyserChicago is more violent because of the ethnicity of it's population. It's a rich and diverse culture, full of passion, but they definitely express themselves more violently.
Those Irish, man!
Quote: KeyserChicago is more violent because of the ethnicity of it's population. It's a rich and diverse culture, full of passion, but they definitely express themselves more violently.
Chicago isn't violent due to the ethnicity of its population. It's violent because there a boatload of gangs in town who constantly fight over territory in which to sell their drugs and solicit their prostitutes.
Quote: Gabes22It's violent because there a boatload of gangs in town who constantly fight over territory in which to sell their drugs and solicit their prostitutes.
Yes, I know. That's basically what I've said above. "It's a rich and diverse culture, full of passion, but they definitely express themselves more violently."
Quote: IntheknowAre we talking Muslems?
Some are, but the subject is blacks in America.
More specifically: do blacks commit a statistically disproportionate amount of crimes in America, as compared to whites?
Then, to the heart of the matter: if so: why?
So to what would you attribute the striking differences in rates of violent crime among cities with similar firearms controls?Quote: rdw4potusI just get sick of the insanely weak arguments put forth by the right. Using suspect counts and not convictions to prove stats re: race and violence? Comparing Vermont and Detroit like they're equal except for racial demography? Claiming that Chicago is dangerous because of gun control laws when London's controls are stricter and London is safer. Your side can win this fight on the merits. Your arguments are so bad that they weaken your path to victory.
Prior to federal gun laws enacted in 1968 gun purchases were relatively easy. A person during the height of the Cold War defected to The Soviet Union and threatened to renounce his citizenship. Upon return to the U.S. he bought a rifle through the mail that he later used to assassinate J.F.K. That person as you may know was Lee Harvey Oswald. It was after a few more high profile assassinations that the federal gun control act of 1968 was passed.
Many states and cities adopted there own gun control laws in an effort to stem firearm violence. And we all know just how well that has worked right?
A disproportionate amount of gun violence and other crimes are committed by poor Blacks who tend to live in the inner-cities. This is a fact like it or not.
One of the problems facing Blacks is a startlingly high out of wedlock birthrate. It currently is about 70%. In 1950 it was 20%.
A Black child being raised by a single mother has about a 50% chance of living in poverty.
A Black child living in a two parent home only has an 8% chance of living in poverty.
http://blackdemographics.com/households/poverty/
The children of unwed Black mothers face an uphill battle. They are far more likely to drop out of school commit crimes and repeat the cycle of single parent living in poverty.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/18/the-unbelievable-rise-of-single-motherhood-in-america-over-the-last-50-years/
I am afraid the answer to stopping much of the violence plaguing America today lies not in gun control but perhaps birth control.
And yes this holds true for ALL races.....
Quote:
One of the problems facing Blacks is a startlingly high out of wedlock birthrate. It currently is about 70%. In 1950 it was 20%.
A Black child being raised by a single mother has about a 50% chance of living in poverty.
A Black child living in a two parent home only has an 8% chance of living in poverty.
http://blackdemographics.com/households/poverty/
The children of unwed Black mothers face an uphill battle. They are far more likely to drop out of school commit crimes and repeat the cycle of single parent living in poverty.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/12/18/the-unbelievable-rise-of-single-motherhood-in-america-over-the-last-50-years/
I am afraid the answer to stopping much of the violence plaguing America today lies not in gun control but perhaps birth control.
And yes this holds true for ALL races.....
Indeed.
Parenting in America has become an adversarial process, at least when people are not living together.
The current arrangement of establishing a high child support obligation coupled to meting out insignificant amounts of visitation time to the obligor are a recipe for anger, frustration and resentment.
Not that I see "a better way to do it."
An intact couple who commit to raising a child can devote twice the time and twice the income to the process, and that ain't a bad thing; nor is them being on the same page, working for a common goal, and not imploding while engaging in their own version of "War of the Roses."
Quote: MrVSome are, but the subject is blacks in America.
More specifically: do blacks commit a statistically disproportionate amount of crimes in America, as compared to whites?
Then, to the heart of the matter: if so: why?
Didn't Jimmy the Greek have the answer?
Do blacks commit more crimes then whites no matter how you slice it? Yes
Black children are income to black women. That has a lot to do with it.
Welfare keeps the black populace down. Many make a life out of collecting welfare. Why work?
Quote: Intheknow
Do blacks commit more crimes then whites no matter how you slice it? Yes
I assume you mean per capita? or violent crimes? Those would also be dubious claims, but they'd at least be less silly than what you actually said...
Quote: MrVSome are, but the subject is blacks in America.
More specifically: do blacks commit a statistically disproportionate amount of crimes in America, as compared to whites?
Then, to the heart of the matter: if so: why?
The fact that most blacks have iq that make them borderline retarded has alot to do with it. Beyon that I think that blacks are geentically predisposed towards cowardly criminality, parasitism, and evil, hey hey.
Quote: soxfanThe fact that most blacks have iq that make them borderline retarded has alot to do with it. Beyon that I think that blacks are geentically predisposed towards cowardly criminality, parasitism, and evil, hey hey.
http://www.break.com/video/guy-with-taser-accidentally-tazes-himself-bracelet-2840995
It's a rich an diverse culture. We need to accept the fact that they just choose to express their views and passions more violently.
Quote: soxfanThe fact that most blacks have iq that make them borderline retarded has alot to do with it. Beyon that I think that blacks are geentically predisposed towards cowardly criminality, parasitism, and evil, hey hey.
Ridiculous nonsense there, soxfan.
My opinion: when we are born, we are all pretty much the same, other than skin color.
It is our environment, our family, our education, our life experiences which determine how we develop.
Nurture, not nature.
Quote: rdw4potusI assume you mean per capita? or violent crimes? Those would also be dubious claims, but they'd at least be less silly than what you actually said...
I'd bet you live in Lilly white suburbia. Try living in West Philadelphia for 6 months your attitude would change after the sixth time your car was broken into within one month.
Quote: IntheknowI'd bet you live in Lilly white suburbia. Try living in West Philadelphia for 6 months your attitude would change after the sixth time your car was broken into within one month.
There are reasons I live in an area where I don't have to park my car outside and this is one of them. Last summer I left my car outside by my office in the Old Irving Park Neighborhood in Chicago (Think halfway between Downtown Chicago and O'Hare right off the expressway) because I met my girlfriend for a dinner and we just left my car there overnight because we were going right by there the next day. I come back the following day and my catalytic converter had been sawed off. They take them to the scrap yard and get like $50 for them. $800 repair bill for me.
Quote: IntheknowI'd bet you live in Lilly white suburbia. Try living in West Philadelphia for 6 months your attitude would change after the sixth time your car was broken into within one month.
In West Philadelphia born and raised
On the playground was where I spent most of my days
Does anyone remember this? Give it a few minutes before saying.
Quote: IntheknowI'd bet you live in Lilly white suburbia. Try living in West Philadelphia for 6 months your attitude would change after the sixth time your car was broken into within one month.
As my profile says, I currently live in West Columbia, SC. I suppose it's technically a suburb of Columbia, but the demography is about the same as the core city's (minus the USC students in Columbia).
Before I moved here, I lived in Norristown, PA. It's a high crime place. Probably higher crime than West Philadelphia. West Philly really isn't as bad as a 20 year old TV themesong makes it out to be (or maybe it is...a couple kids up to no good is about right). It's not like it's Fishtown or Kensington or Germantown or anything.
I do suppose you're right that within West Philly, where the population is 75% black, blacks do commit the majority of all crimes.
The dichotomy between these two towns is stunning: classic "haves" and "have nots."
Why do we as a society allow this to happen?
It just isn't right to passively accept our culture where many blacks shoot up dope because they have no opportunities to succeed in life, while many whites agonize over which brand of single malt to purchase.
If anybody has suggestions about how to change this mess, I'm listening.
Quote: MrVI lived for a bit as a teen in Haddonfield, south Jersey, which is two towns away from America's sh*^tiest, most dangerous city, Camden .
The dichotomy between these two towns is stunning: classic "haves" and "have nots."
Why do we as a society allow this to happen?
It just isn't right to passively accept our culture where many blacks shoot up dope because they have no opportunities to succeed in life, while many whites agonize over which brand of single malt to purchase.
If anybody has suggestions about how to change this mess, I'm listening.
End welfare as we know it. That simple.
Quote: Intheknow
End welfare as we know it. That simple.
What would you replace it with? Welfare in the US is smaller than welfare in most of Europe, but Europe has a smaller "problem" with racial divides and violent crime. Should I assume you want to institute a larger and more all-encompassing welfare program in the USA?
Quote: dave12038457
I am afraid the answer to stopping much of the violence plaguing America today lies not in gun control but perhaps birth control.
And yes this holds true for ALL races.....
Yes and not only in America. Overpopulation is a world wide problem. It's the elephant in the room as an increasing population fights for diminishing resources.
That assertion is not only unsubstantiated, but is also contrary to history.Quote: rdw4potusEurope has a smaller "problem" with racial divides and violent crime.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat assertion is not only unsubstantiated, but is also contrary to history.
Here's the Wiki article that Gandler used while trying to prove that the USA should have more guns because Latin America has a cartel violence problem. Note the positioning of the USA versus the countries of Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate
Want to argue that Europe has a larger current problem with violent crime than the US does, while Europe also has wildly lower homicide rates? Go for it.
The question is not about violence, of which Europe most certainly has a longer and more documented record than the U.S., despite the Civil War, but about "Europe has a smaller "problem" with racial divides." The demographic record of the U.S., including Andrew Jackson's and others' genocidal campaigns, pales next to the sordid European records of ethnic cleansing and massively rampant bloodshed between and among ethnic and tribal groups. Even today, European countries exert strict ethnic, or "racial" as you seem to prefer, quotas and regulations and practices in areas like immigration, housing and employment.Quote: rdw4potusHere's the Wiki article that Gandler used while trying to prove that the USA should have more guns because Latin America has a cartel violence problem. Note the positioning of the USA versus the countries of Europe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate Want to argue that Europe has a larger current problem with violent crime than the US does, while Europe also has wildly lower homicide rates? Go for it.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe question is not about violence, of which Europe most certainly has a longer and more documented record than the U.S., despite the Civil War, but about "Europe has a smaller "problem" with racial divides." The demographic record of the U.S., including Andrew Jackson's and others' genocidal campaigns, pales next to the sordid European records of ethnic cleansing and massively rampant bloodshed between and among ethnic and tribal groups. Even today, European countries exert strict ethnic, or "racial" as you seem to prefer, quotas and regulations and practices in areas like immigration, housing and employment.
We're in a discussion about current instances of violence. And, more specifically, racially-caused violence*. I don't disagree that there are lessons to be learned from history. But, you haven't done anything to advance points that would explain why the USA currently has significantly more instances of violent crime than most European countries do.
* I'm just using the framework that was presented by others in this discussion. If you want to have a nuanced discussion about ethnic issues, that would be great. Let's talk about how well Irish and Italian immigrants to the USA have historically gotten along. Let's talk about all of the dark-skinned folks who don't self-identify as being "African." Let's definitely never talk about how "blacks" are pre-disposed to having borderline retarded IQs and have that be the basis for hating or fearing them. When the people on your side of this argument stop with that horseshit, I'll stop using the word "racial" in response.
Virtually completely uncontrolled immigration, as referenced in another post in regard to Europe's strife-torn history, is a major contributing factor to violence in the U.S., on the part of those who feel little or no loyalty to our country and to those from the U.S. who feel that they are being supplanted and disenfranchised by the immense waves of eager and energetic illegal immigrants.Quote: rdw4potusYou haven't done anything to advance points that would explain why the USA currently has significantly more instances of violent crime than most European countries do.
Quote: SanchoPanzaVirtually completely uncontrolled immigration, as referenced in another post in regard to Europe's strife-torn history, is a major contributing factor to violence in the U.S., on the part of those who feel little or no loyalty to our country and to those from the U.S. who feel that they are being supplanted and disenfranchised by the immense waves of eager and energetic illegal immigrants.
Doesn't the ethnic strife in America largely rest between a group of people who are descendants of unwilling illegal immigrants and the descendants of the people who kidnapped the first group's ancestors 200 years ago?
Quote: MrVRidiculous nonsense there, soxfan.
My opinion: when we are born, we are all pretty much the same, other than skin color.
It is our environment, our family, our education, our life experiences which determine how we develop.
Nurture, not nature.
Actually, it is not nonsense! Studies show that blacks adopted at young age by White, middle, and upper middle class White parents have the same low iq, and the same predisposition towards criminality and dysfucntion as blacks raised in ghetto by low iq single black welfare sponging single mothers. I am shocked that anyone would proffer up that utterly absurd nuture over nature nonsense, Genes are DESTINY, and if you doubt that read the Bell Curve and IQ and The Wealth of Nations, hey hey.
That is one heck of a narrow view, especially in view of the fact that the supposedly widely accepted estimate of illegal immigrants in the U.S. in 30 million, none of whom traveled here "unwillingly." And the remark about the "kidnappers" is at least equally preposterous in view of the widely celebrated fact that the preponderance of Americans today are descendants of 19th- and 20th-century immigrants. Sort of basic facts from history.Quote: rdw4potusDoesn't the ethnic strife in America largely rest between a group of people who are descendants of unwilling illegal immigrants and the descendants of the people who kidnapped the first group's ancestors 200 years ago?
Quote: SanchoPanzaThat is one heck of a narrow view, especially in view of the fact that the supposedly widely accepted estimate of illegal immigrants in the U.S. in 30 million, none of whom traveled here "unwillingly." And the remark about the "kidnappers" is at least equally preposterous in view of the widely celebrated fact that the preponderance of Americans today are descendants of 19th- and 20th-century immigrants. Sort of basic facts from history.
Preposterous? Well. OK. Would you say that's more or less preposterous than your effort to tie 30 million mostly hispanic immigrants into a discussion about urban violence and black people? You've said that ethnic violence in the US is the result of marginalization and disenfranchisement as eager and enthusiastic illegal immigrants arrive. I'm not clear on who in your narrative is perpetrating violence on whom. Urban black people are marginalized, so they're killing caucasian people because the hispanics are coming? That's the only situation that would fit in and marry your points with what soxfan and gandler and intheknow have said.
Quote: rdw4potusPreposterous? Well. OK. Would you say that's more or less preposterous than your effort to tie 30 million mostly hispanic immigrants into a discussion about urban violence and black people?You've said that ethnic violence in the US is the result of marginalization and disenfranchisement as eager and enthusiastic illegal immigrants arrive.
The request was for factors other than the standard demonizing narrative about one group victimizing another. The distorted paraphrasing about disenfranchisement ignores the key qualification that it was the people in a certain group FEEL that way. And not that those were standing problems.
Nope, as far as I'm concerned. If the inability or unwillingness to address the points requested without twisting them to another agenda persists, then that is another problem to be overcome.Quote: rdw4potusI'm not clear on who in your narrative is perpetrating violence on whom. Urban black people are marginalized, so they're killing caucasian people because the hispanics are coming? That's the only situation that would fit in and marry your points with what soxfan and gandler and intheknow have said.
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe request was for factors other than the standard demonizing narrative about one group victimizing another. The distorted paraphrasing about disenfranchisement ignores the key qualification that it was the people in a certain group FEEL that way. And not that those were standing problems.
WHAT group feels that way, and WHAT have they done about it? So far, all you've really said is that eager and enthusiastic illegal aliens have arrived and that some nebulous unnamed group doesn't like it. If the immigrants are really eager and enthusiastic, then should I assume that you feel that the pre-existing population is in the wrong?
Quote: SanchoPanzaIf the inability or unwillingness to address the points requested without twisting them to another agenda persists, then that is another problem to be overcome.
Certainly, there are many problems to overcome. This is undoubtedly a highly nuanced, very sensitive issue. Or, I suppose, group of issues.
The underlying facts are not nuance. To help understand better the problem, just look at a simple case study like the reopening of New Orleans. The bulk of the work was taken by illegal immigrants, even in the quarters of minority groups.Quote: rdw4potusCertainly, there are many problems to overcome. This is undoubtedly a highly nuanced, very sensitive issue. Or, I suppose, group of issues.
It does not take any leap of imagination to figure out what the feelings were on both sides of that endeavor. Imagine the feelings stirred when public institutions of higher learning extend better benefits to people who have purposely and knowingly violated U.S. law than to our very own citizens.
To top it off, what do we have to show for years of soaring deficits, trillion-dollar stimulus and similar programs and full union access to the top corridors of power in Washington? Nothing less than a record of dismay and disappointment for the American masses:
[From today's BLS report]:
RECORD 93,175,000 AMERICANS NOT WORKING...
Record 12,202,000 Blacks Not In Labor Force...
Record 56,131,000 Women...
Quote: SanchoPanzaThe underlying facts are not nuance. To help understand better the problem, just look at a simple case study like the reopening of New Orleans. The bulk of the work was taken by illegal immigrants, even in the quarters of minority groups.
It does not take any leap of imagination to figure out what the feelings were on both sides of that endeavor. Imagine the feelings stirred when public institutions of higher learning extend better benefits to people who have purposely and knowingly violated U.S. law than to our very own citizens.
To top it off, what do we have to show for years of soaring deficits, trillion-dollar stimulus and similar programs and full union access to the top corridors of power in Washington? Nothing less than a record of dismay and disappointment for the American masses:
[From today's BLS report]:
RECORD 93,175,000 AMERICANS NOT WORKING...
Record 12,202,000 Blacks Not In Labor Force...
Record 56,131,000 Women...
Define "bulk." Feel free to use statistics to back up that claim.
And those BLS stats are pretty silly, don't you think? Saying 93,175,000 americans not working a) has nothing at all to do with illegal immigration, b) includes children, and c) includes retirees. That's a record that won't soon be broken - baby boomers exist. 56 million women? including how many females under the age of 10? Over the age of 66?
After you provide the record of ethnic harmony in Europe.Quote: rdw4potusDefine "bulk." Feel free to use statistics to back up that claim.
Suuurreee. a) Unemployment has nothing to do with tens of millions of illegal workers here. b) The Labor Department, along with other agencies and experts, does not consider minors as part of the workforce. c) It does NOT include ALL "retirees." Here is a DOL explanation:Quote: rdw4potusAnd those BLS stats are pretty silly, don't you think? Saying 93,175,000 americans not working a) has nothing at all to do with illegal immigration, b) includes children, and c) includes retirees. That's a record that won't soon be broken - baby boomers exist. 56 million women? including how many females under the age of 10? Over the age of 66?
"The total unemployment figures cover more than the number of people who have lost jobs. They include people who have quit their jobs to look for other employment, workers whose temporary jobs have ended, individuals looking for their first job, and experienced workers looking for jobs after an absence from the labor force (for example, stay-at-home parents who return to the labor force after their children have entered school). Information also is collected for the unemployed on the industry and occupation of the last job they held (if applicable), how long they have been looking for work, their reason for being jobless (for example, did they lose or quit their job), and their job search methods.
Who is not in the labor force?
As mentioned previously, the labor force is made up of the employed and the unemployed. The remainder—those who have no job and are not looking for one—are counted as not in the labor force. Many who are not in the labor force are going to school or are retired. Family responsibilities keep others out of the labor force. Since the mid-1990s, typically fewer than 1 in 10 people not in the labor force reported that they want a job.
A series of questions is asked each month of persons not in the labor force to obtain information about their desire for work, the reasons why they had not looked for work in the last 4 weeks, their prior job search, and their availability for work. These questions include the following (the bolded words are emphasized when read by the interviewers).
Do you currently want a job, either full or part time?
What is the main reason you were not looking for work during the last 4 weeks?
Did you look for work at any time during the last 12 months?
Last week, could you have started a job if one had been offered?"
Is that why? Glad to know why. I was under the misconception they just didn't like anything negative that may keep someone from traveling to a particular destination.Quote: MprtUSA516People wonder why TA deletes topics and posts? This thread is why.
Quote: AxelWolfIs that why? Glad to know why. I was under the misconception they just didn't like anything negative that may keep someone from traveling to a particular destination.
It might start as that, but many threads would descent into a tit for tat political or social issue discussion quickly.
But the american born mexican kids seem to be glamorized by american television, hip hop music and thuggish lifestyle.
Quote: MprtUSA516It might start as that, but many threads would descent into a tit for tat political or social issue discussion quickly.
Atlantic City IS a social question. Some people might even say so is Las Vegas.
Well isn't it true that The European colonists who came to America were the dregs of Europe? Those who weren't properly socialized and religious kooks plus criminals (Georgia was originally a penal colony)and malcontents. My mom who was Swiss always said that if you caused trouble in Europe you got a 1 way ticket here. So they have dumped their genetic dregs on us.Quote: rdw4potusDoesn't the ethnic strife in America largely rest between a group of people who are descendants of unwilling illegal immigrants and the descendants of the people who kidnapped the first group's ancestors 200 years ago?
The Dutch were the big slavers. They bought slaves in Africa from warrior tribes that had either conquered other warrior tribes or peaceful agrarian tribes.
When I was growing up you could almost tell which class a black person came from by their behavior. The defeated warriors still are trying to overcome the shame of their defeats. They are what I call angry or City Blacks. The agrarians have more of a bloom where you are planted attitude about being here. I call them Country Blacks. Plus we brought them here as slaves. "Massa's" job was to take care of them (and most slaveholders did take good care of their slaves) I think this memory is what causes that entitlement thing. Before you say they should have gotten over it by now look at gladiators in ancient Rome vs the NFL today. In 2,000 years we have grown as a species where death is not mandatory to the loser. Just a broken bone or a torn ACL will do. The human race progresses very slowly.
