https://www.scribd.com/user/234057260/Las-Vegas-Review-Journal#from_embed
You can view or download the THIRTY SEVEN pages at that link.
Is this the best thread to talk about the prop bets... or should we start another one?Quote: DJTeddyBearWestgate prop bets are published here:
https://www.scribd.com/user/234057260/Las-Vegas-Review-Journal#from_embed
You can view or download the THIRTY SEVEN pages at that link.
By the way, when did they finally stop referring to it as "The Big Game?" (I assume the NFL now allows them to refer to it properly.)
Quote: EdCollinsIs this the best thread to talk about the prop bets... or should we start another one?
I just split of DJ's post here. Prop betting should be discussed here. Discussion about the game in general and betting on the winner and total points should be discussed at SUPER BOWL LIV.
Total Tweets from Donald Trump during the game (only tweets from @RealDonaldTrump will count towards grading, kickoff until final whistle)
Trump total tweets during game over ½ 100
Trump total tweets during game under ½ -140
Does anyone know his Tweeting history previous Super Bowls? Isn't he fairly likely to make any Tweet during the game about something else, which I assume counts?
BTW, I am conscious of the rule against political statements. Since this is directly gambling related, it is allowed. Be careful with posts of a general nature of Trump, as the no-political-statements rule still applies in this thread.
Here’s the William Hill props:
https://www.scribd.com/document/444061391/Super-Bowl-54-prop-bets-WIlliam-Hill
It’s *only* 12 pages.
Quote: WizardDoes anyone know his Tweeting history previous Super Bowls? Isn't he fairly likely to make any Tweet during the game about something else, which I assume counts?
I don't, but this may be of help:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/01/23/trump-record-most-tweets-since-taking-office/4551815002/
Quote:Trump shattered his record of 123 Twitter posts in a day – which was set Dec. 12 as the House Judiciary Committee debated two articles of impeachment against him – with 142 tweets and retweets, according to data compiled by Factbas.se.
I would guess that the total won't have a lot to do about the game, but what's going on in politics. If things are quiet, he probably will be too. If there's some issue/news then he seems to tweet more. And in answer to your question, yes, he's likely to post about everything and anything.
I may very well be wrong, but I would guess it would be under.
Quote: HullabalooI would guess that the total won't have a lot to do about the game, but what's going on in politics. If things are quiet, he probably will be too. If there's some issue/news then he seems to tweet more. And in answer to your question, yes, he's likely to post about everything and anything.
I may very well be wrong, but I would guess it would be under.
According to How Many Times Does Trump Tweet A Day? , the answer is 11 or 12. However, it would be dangerous to use this figure alone. It seems they tend to be clumped together on hot news days, as you mention.
I still think the important thing to know is does he tend to Tweet about sports while in play? I could see him congratulating the winner, but that would likely be after the whistle.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wtsp.com/amp/article/news/nation-world/trump-always-tweets-during-the-super-bowl-heres-what-hes-said-since-2010/507-514152302
Quote: DJTeddyBearSorry for not starting a new thread.
Here’s the William Hill props:
https://www.scribd.com/document/444061391/Super-Bowl-54-prop-bets-WIlliam-Hill
It’s *only* 12 pages.
Too bad I don't live in the US, as some props are a lot better than what I took.
These four individual props bets
#12509: Total Points 46-50 +600
#12510: Total Points 51-55 +600
#12511: Total Points 56-60 +600
#12512: Total Points 61-65 +600
work out to a prop bet of
Total Points 46-65 -133.33
if you risk an equal amount on all four of them. (Assuming I did the math correctly.)
As I was computing it to determine the overall odds, I first guess-timated it would come out to maybe -150 to -175 or so. So I was a little surprised to see it was only -133.
Risking $133.33 to win $100 has to win 57.15% of the time to show a profit. So if you think 57% of the time or better the final point total will fall in that range of 46 to 65, well, there you go. (Note that 7 of the last 11 (63.6%) Super Bowls ended within this range, as were 8 of the past 13 (61.5%) Super Bowls. So this can't be too bad of a prop.)
As a comparison, William Hill also has props for Total Points per game. They offer these three prop bets:
Total Points 43-49 +350
Total Points 50-56 +300
Total Points 57-63 +350
However, if you do the math, William Hill's payout isn't anywhere near as good as Westgates. Hills is between -233.33 and -237.5, if you wager on all three of these, assuming I did that math correctly.
One to think about: bet on both teams that the last scoring play of the game will be them with a safety; it effectively pays 14.5-1.
That sounds like a lock, doesn't he have an add running which was pushed to the beginning of the game to avoid controversy at the end? I'm pretty sure he does, and he will have to pat himself on the back for it as soon as he can. This seems better to me than the SB under you talked about, unless he has some kind of history of silence until the game is over.Quote: WizardHere is an interesting prop at 5dimes:
Total Tweets from Donald Trump during the game (only tweets from @RealDonaldTrump will count towards grading, kickoff until final whistle)
Trump total tweets during game over ½ 100
Trump total tweets during game under ½ -140
Does anyone know his Tweeting history previous Super Bowls? Isn't he fairly likely to make any Tweet during the game about something else, which I assume counts?
BTW, I am conscious of the rule against political statements. Since this is directly gambling related, it is allowed. Be careful with posts of a general nature of Trump, as the no-political-statements rule still applies in this thread.
Quote: onenickelmiracleThis seems better to me than the SB under you talked about, unless he has some kind of history of silence until the game is over.
I'm very tempted to bet the over 1/2 too, but the fact that I'm getting even money suggests somebody knows something I don't.
Quote: WizardI'm very tempted to bet the over 1/2 too, but the fact that I'm getting even money suggests somebody knows something I don't.
I would think he'd tweet during the game as well. That said, an unscientific Google search reveals he tweeted 2 times on Feb 3, 2019, both prior to kickoff. Anyone see different?
Quote: ThatDonGuyThe one prop I like: William Hill's +130 that the opening kickoff will not be a touchback. Teams are getting better at leaving kicks short of the goal line.
Stats from nfl.com -- URL too unwieldily to post here and/or my html skills are rusty
Regular Season:
KC touchback rate: 61.2% > not a touchback 38.8% (+158)
SF touchback rate: 50.0% > not a touchback 50.0% (+100)
Combined touchback rate: 55.6% > not a touchback 44.4% (+125)
Playoffs:
KC: 53.3% > not a touchback 46.7% (+114)
SF: 50.0% > not a touchback 50.0% (+100)
Combined touchback rate: 51.7% > not a touchback 48.3% (+107)
Is my math correct in calculating true fair line?
FWIW: FanDuel (IN) offering the following:
Opening Kickoff to be a Touchback
Yes: -170
No: +135
Quote: WizardI'm very tempted to bet the over 1/2 too, but the fact that I'm getting even money suggests somebody knows something I don't.
Unless there's a controversial call, I don't think the President is in the habit of sending messages during championship games. I think this wager would hinge on whether you believe something controversial is going to occur.
Does the wager include non-game time during half-time?
Quote: AyecarumbaDoes the wager include non-game time during half-time?
Yes.
Quote: WizardYes.
This article mentions that the President is historically very quiet online during the Big Game. However, didn't his campaign buy some ad time this year? If so, he may try to draw attention to the ad, or comment on it afterwards. Will he be at the game?
Just based on past behavior, the under seems the best bet, but if there is controversy, or if the game is a blowout snoozer, he'll start tweeting. Maybe best to stay away from this one.
Quote: AyecarumbaJust based on past behavior, the under seems the best bet, but if there is controversy, or if the game is a blowout snoozer, he'll start tweeting. Maybe best to stay away from this one.
How about we split the difference and you give me +120 on at least one Tweet?
How far I have fallen, I barely gamble at all any longer, even on the Super Bowl.
Quote: Wizard
How far I have fallen, I barely gamble at all any longer, even on the Super Bowl.
I was wondering. So no big pronouncements or prop bet advice like you have in past on GWAE or here? LOL
I was looking forward to the read in advance of a trip to Vegas Superbowl Sunday.
Quote: MJGolfI was wondering. So no big pronouncements or prop bet advice like you have in past on GWAE or here? LOL
I was looking forward to the read in advance of a trip to Vegas Superbowl Sunday.
I made about a dozen bets today. I will post some prop suggestions tomorrow, barring some extenuating circumstances.
Quote: 2020 Superbowl 54: Best prop bets you can make
1. Which player will score a touchdown in the game? (Patrick Mahomes +370)
2. How many passing yards will Jimmy Garoppolo record? (Over 300.5 +330)
5. Winning margin (49ers by 1-6 +325; Chiefs by 1-6 +310)
I think it’s going to be a tight game either way, so these feel like easy bets to throws some cash on. — CC
6. Will an offensive lineman score a touchdown? (DraftKings; Yes +3300)
The odds are SO GOOD and I can just see one of these creative offensive teams going for it. — CC
9. Will Jimmy Garoppolo throw an interception? (Yes -135)
Garoppolo threw 13 picks during the regular season and defenders dropped another eight. He puts the ball in dangerous spots a lot, and the Chiefs have capitalized on opposing quarterbacks’ mistakes this season. — SR
10. What will be the result of the 1st drive of the game? (Any outcome other than a TD, FG or Safety +105)
11. First scoring play (Chiefs TD +150)
Bet | Odds | Fair | Location |
---|---|---|---|
Last score touchdown | -170 | -234 | William Hill |
First score touchdown | -170 | -212 | William Hill |
No KC touchdown in 4th qtr | 190 | 173 | William Hill |
49'ers first score TD | -160 | -196 | William Hill |
Game never tied after 0-0 | 110 | -107 | William Hill |
Team with more field goals -- 49'ers | 120 | 100 | William Hill |
No safety | -800 | -1548 | Golden Nugget |
No overtime | -1100 | -1614 | Golden Nugget |
No 2-pt conversion | -270 | -485 | Circa |
I'm sure there are other things I could bet, but I haven't been out much this year looking.
Quote: WizardThis has been a lousy year for prop hunting for me. William Hill had some juicy bets, but the lines had all moved against me by the time I saw them. A few still had value. The following bets are all I have made so far:
Bet Odds Fair Location Last score touchdown -170 -234 William Hill First score touchdown -170 -212 William Hill No KC touchdown in 4th qtr 190 173 William Hill 49'ers first score TD -160 -196 William Hill Game never tied after 0-0 110 -107 William Hill Team with more field goals -- 49'ers 120 100 William Hill No safety -800 -1548 Golden Nugget No overtime -1100 -1614 Golden Nugget No 2-pt conversion -270 -485 Circa
I'm sure there are other things I could bet, but I haven't been out much this year looking.
Thanks for these Wizard. When the fair line on a prop is about double the line you find (e.g. "No safety"), do you double up on your wager, or do even higher multiples since it's so juicy?
Quote: AyecarumbaThanks for these Wizard. When the fair line on a prop is about double the line you find (e.g. "No safety"), do you double up on your wager, or do even higher multiples since it's so juicy?
You're welcome. I certainly bet more as the odds bet better. Roughly, in proportion to my advantage.
Quote: WizardYou're welcome. I certainly bet more as the odds bet better. Roughly, in proportion to my advantage.
Can I ask how you went about figuring out the fair odds for the game not being tied after 0-0?
Quote: WizardThis has been a lousy year for prop hunting for me. William Hill had some juicy bets, but the lines had all moved against me by the time I saw them. A few still had value. The following bets are all I have made so far:
Bet Odds Fair Location Last score touchdown -170 -234 William Hill First score touchdown -170 -212 William Hill No KC touchdown in 4th qtr 190 173 William Hill 49'ers first score TD -160 -196 William Hill Game never tied after 0-0 110 -107 William Hill Team with more field goals -- 49'ers 120 100 William Hill No safety -800 -1548 Golden Nugget No overtime -1100 -1614 Golden Nugget No 2-pt conversion -270 -485 Circa
I'm sure there are other things I could bet, but I haven't been out much this year looking.
In general, Kansas City (and Coach Andy Reid) is extremely aggressive when it comes to going for it on fourth down, particularly early in the game. Conversely, from the three year period encompassing the 2016-2018 seasons:
https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/nfl-fourth-downs-eagles-doug-pederson/
San Francisco was by far the least aggressive team to go for it on fourth with more than four minutes remaining in the game. (Only more than four minutes is considered because, if a team is down with less than four minutes to go, but is within reach, going for it is a near-certainty anyway).
This season was a little different with San Francisco going for it on 4th 12 times compared to 10 for Kansas City.
However, we have to look at the fourth down situations:
Indianapolis @ Kansas City: Conversion Successful, 4th & 1 KC 47, 3:00 remaining in 2nd Quarter
(That one is interesting not because they gave up a reasonable field goal chance, but because it would have put IND in position to get in FG range with just one first down had the conversion failed)
Indianapolis @ Kansas City: Conversion Failed, 4th & 1, KC 34, 5:06 Remaining in Game
(This DID set the Colts up for a Field Goal, which was a highly questionable choice, because IND was up 16-10 at the time this play was called, so most coaches would have hoped to punt here and get the ball back)
Kansas City @ Denver: Conversion Successful, 4th and 1 from DEN 5 10:00 2nd Quarter
(This was one where KC could have just taken a chip shot field goal, and it would have made sense score wise as they were up 10-6 at the time of this play. While the conversion was successful, they did end up taking a field goal rather than go for it on 4th and Goal, perhaps because Mahomes got injured on this play)
Minnesota @ Kansas City: Conversion Successful, 4th and 1 from MIN 7, 6:13 2nd Quarter
(In a tie ball game, KC would forego a chip shot field goal to go for it on fourth down. Once again, they ended up taking a FG on the drive anyway)
Kansas City @ New England: Conversion Successful, 4th and 1, NE 33, 3rd Quarter 11:10 remaining
(Ahead 20-7, Kansas City makes the bizarre decision not to attempt a field goal here and instead goes for it. They would take a field goal later in the drive)
----------
Cleveland @ San Francisco 4th and 1 Conversion Successful, 2:05 2nd Quarter CLE 27
(San Francisco was ahead 14-3, so either decision kind of makes sense)
SF @ Arizona: Conversion Successful, 4th and GOAL on the 1 with second left in the second quarter
(Ahead 14-7 already, you can make an argument for either)
San Francisco @ Baltimore: Conversion Successful, First Drive of Game BAL 33 4th & 2
Not Included
Any other 4th Down plays not listed were not listed for one of the following reasons:
1.) Less than four minutes to go in game.
2.) "No Man's Land," play, not really a reasonable likely field goal, but too far in opponent's territory to really consider punting.
3.) Botched snap/hold/fumble on FG attempt. (Counts as turnover on downs)
4.) Botched """"""""""""""""""""""""punt.
Conclusion
In conclusion, Andy Reid has a history of being super aggressive on fourth downs and we saw it also this year as he took a pass on three chip shot field goals and also went for it on 4th (deliberately) deep in their own territory. Even SF's most aggressive 4th Down play calls (with one exception) at least make sense on some level. Andy Reid just likes to try to surprise and he trusts his offense.
On the other hand, Kansas City is 34/38 on FG attempts compared to 30/39 for SF. Still, it remains so that Andy Reid is not one inclined to, "Take the points."
Anyway, I don't think it's a bad bet, but I wouldn't put the fair odds at exactly 100 given Andy Reid's history of passing on chip shots.
Quote: Mission146Anyway, I don't think it's a bad bet, but I wouldn't put the fair odds at exactly 100 given Andy Reid's history of passing on chip shots.
Those are very good comments and I didn't analyze it nearly to that degree. That's why I don't do player props or get into the behavior of a particular team. I am just a numbers man. I figure in the NFL teams are smart enough to know when the odds favor attempting a field goal and attempting a fourth down. Then again, I am always screaming at the TV when teams don't go for it on 4 & short early in the game. If KC will lean towards going for the 4th down, I respect that, and it should have factored into my calculus.
I think for a while my signature line here was "When in doubt, go for the fourth down."
some numbersQuote: WizardI am just a numbers man.
38-24-36
a very funny movie
I'm told there has been a 16-19 or 19-16 score only 4 times in the 256 games this season.
I had to lay 15 to 1 this morning.
Assuming a 252/256 chance of winning, my EV is (252/256)*(16/15) = +5%.
Quote: WizardHere is an interesting prop at Boyd casinos:
I'm told there has been a 16-19 or 19-16 score only 4 times in the 256 games this season.
I had to lay 15 to 1 this morning.
Assuming a 252/256 chance of winning, my EV is (252/256)*(16/15) = +5%.
Wow. How often has any team even had 16? It’s not a common score
Quote: AyecarumbaWow. How often has any team even had 16? It’s not a common score
I believe this counts for the seconds between a touchdown and extra point. So I could see 16 as 7+3+6 or 3+7+6. It's the 19 that I think is the tougher number to hit.
Bet | Odds | Fair | Location |
---|---|---|---|
Last score touchdown | -160 | -234 | William Hill |
First score touchdown | -170 | -212 | William Hill |
No KC touchdown in 4th qtr | 190 | 173 | William Hill |
49'ers first score TD | -160 | -196 | William Hill |
Game never tied after 0-0 | 110 | -107 | William Hill |
Team with more field goals -- 49'ers | 120 | 100 | William Hill |
No safety | -800 | -1548 | Golden Nugget |
No overtime | -900 | -1614 | Stations |
No 2-pt conversion | -270 | -485 | Circa |
KC first score TD | -170 | -207 | William Hill |
Total punts over 7 | -105 | -115 | Stations |
Score ever 16-19 or 19-16 -- NO | -1500 | -6300 | Boyd |
If you want just one tip, bet first score is a touchdown. Try to get -160, but -170 should be easy to find. If you want more, last score is a touchdown and the first score of each individual team is a touchdown. As always, field goals are very bad.
This is a very rare time I'm betting the over on anything (total punts), but it was a small marginal bet.
Quote: WizardI believe this counts for the seconds between a touchdown and extra point. So I could see 16 as 7+3+6 or 3+7+6. It's the 19 that I think is the tougher number to hit.
19 is FG FG TD TD before second extra point.
I think you have a GREAT bet on NO 19-16
Quote: WizardI(snip)
If you want just one tip, bet first score is a touchdown. Try to get -160, but -170 should be easy to find. If you want more, last score is a touchdown and the first score of each individual team is a touchdown. As always, field goals are very bad. (snip)
Below are the bets that I think have "good value":
1. first score a TD, i haVe a double going for the AFC v NFC game into the Superbowl: $400 @ $2.56 (both legs were $1.60).
2. first score a TD: 1,450 @ $1.60
3. 49ers alternative handicap (-2.5): $400 @ $2.45.
4. 49ers alternative handicap (-5.5): $200 @ $3.10.
5. No 2-pt conversion made: $2,800 @ -280.
"For fun bets":
(i) Mahomes 350 (or more) yards in total, $20 @ $3.75.
(ii) Under 50 (alt total): $30 @ $2.40.
(iii) Coin toss called wrong and coin lands on heads: I took the no*** for $52 @ -260
***: In other words, I win the bet if the coin toss is called correctly, and/or/ if the coin lands on tails.
Note: the bets that are in "Decimal" odds were with an Australian bookie, and the bets in "American" odds were with an overseas bookie.
Quote: WizardHere is an interesting prop at 5dimes:
Total Tweets from Donald Trump during the game (only tweets from @RealDonaldTrump will count towards grading, kickoff until final whistle)
Trump total tweets during game over ½ 100
Trump total tweets during game under ½ -140
Why did I let you guys talk me out of betting over 1/2 Tweets? Here are the lines now:
Trump total tweets during game over ½ -265
Trump total tweets during game under ½ +185
Quote: WizardWhy did I let you guys talk me out of betting over 1/2 Tweets? Here are the lines now:
Trump total tweets during game over ½ -265
Trump total tweets during game under ½ +185
Because people realized that a Trump spot and Bloomberg spot were airing!
Did you see what happened to “purple” as the Gatorade color?
Quote: WizardWhy did I let you guys talk me out of betting over 1/2 Tweets? Here are the lines now:
Trump total tweets during game over ½ -265
Trump total tweets during game under ½ +185
Probably still a good bet even at that number
Maybe by game time it’s over 1.5 -110
Quote: ksdjdjBelow are the bets that I think have "good value":
1. first score a TD, i haVe a double going for the AFC v NFC game into the Superbowl: $400 @ $2.56 (both legs were $1.60).
2. first score a TD: 1,450 @ $1.60
3. 49ers alternative handicap (-2.5): $400 @ $2.45.
4. 49ers alternative handicap (-5.5): $200 @ $3.10.
5. No 2-pt conversion made: $2,800 @ -280.
"For fun bets":
(i) Mahomes 350 (or more) yards in total, $20 @ $3.75.
(ii) Under 50 (alt total): $30 @ $2.40.
(iii) Coin toss called wrong and coin lands on heads: I took the no*** for $52 @ -260
***: In other words, I win the bet if the coin toss is called correctly, and/or/ if the coin lands on tails.
Note: the bets that are in "Decimal" odds were with an Australian bookie, and the bets in "American" odds were with an overseas bookie.
More bets that i think were "good value" (at least at the time the bets were placed) :
(a) 49ers alternative handicap (-5): $52 @ $3.50.
(b) Kansas City Chiefs -1 / Under 54.5: $300 @ $3.80
(c) Winning margin over 2½ points: $1,113 @ -1113
(d) Winning margin over 3½ points: $1,314 @ -292
(e) Winning margin not 3 7 10 14 17 points: $423 @ -141
(f) Winning margin not 3 7 10 14 points: $397.50 @ -159
(g) Winning margin not 3 7 10 points: $430 @ -215
(h) Winning margin not 3 or 7 points: $800 @ -250
Note: For "(a)", I wanted to get more money down (about $200 or $250 in total) but I was limited at each sportsbook (the books are owned by the same parent company).
Also note: I understand some of the bets that I listed are probably not prop bets (but I didn't want to start a new thread/write a new post, just for a few bets).
Quote: WizardWhy did I let you guys talk me out of betting over 1/2 Tweets? Here are the lines now:
Trump total tweets during game over ½ -265
Trump total tweets during game under ½ +185
I came across some analysis of the President’s tweeting habits during past Superbowls, and they only mentioned one on a Superbowl Sunday, and that one was about golf. I’m not sure if it was during the game. The line at Bovada was at +/- 13.5 tweets on Super bowl Sunday when the article was published on January 20. I’m not sure if the time was based on Eastern time, or wherever the President was. Historically, he hasn’t tweeted during the game, but he does have lots of reasons to try to capitalize on it.
Wizard, if you want the over, I’ll take 1 or less during the game (kickoff to final whistle) for +125. If he tweets two or more times, you win $100, if 0 or 1, I win $125. Please acknowledge if you want it.
Quote: unJonBecause people realized that a Trump spot and Bloomberg spot were airing!
I thought that was known when the under was favored.
Quote:Did you see what happened to “purple” as the Gatorade color?
No, what happened?
Quote: AyecarumbaWizard, if you want the over, I’ll take 1 or less during the game (kickoff to final whistle) for +125. If he tweets two or more times, you win $100, if 0 or 1, I win $125. Please acknowledge if you want it.
No way. I show the probability of under 1.5 Tweets at 67.04%, making the fair line on the under -203.
Quote: WizardI thought that was known when the under was favored.
No, what happened?
Purple has gone from the long shot (12 to 1) to favorite. Rumor is that it will be purple in honor of Kobe.
Quote: unJonPurple has gone from the long shot (12 to 1) to favorite. Rumor is that it will be purple in honor of Kobe.
Is the normal flavor considered "yellow?"
Quote: WizardIs the normal flavor considered "yellow?"
Per Fan Duel here’s the history going back to 2001. I couldn’t find earlier data. I believe Parcells in the 80s was the start of the Gatorade tradition.
Super Bowl Gatorade Color History by Year (Since 2001)
Year Super Bowl Gatorade color
2019 Super Bowl 53 Blue
2018 Super Bowl 52 Yellow
2017 Super Bowl 51 None
2016 Super Bowl 50 Orange
2015 Super Bowl 49 Blue
2014 Super Bowl 48 Orange
2013 Super Bowl 47 None
2012 Super Bowl 46 Purple
2011 Super Bowl 45 Orange
2010 Super Bowl 44 Orange
2009 Super Bowl 43 Yellow
2008 Super Bowl 42 Clear
2007 Super Bowl 41 Clear
2006 Super Bowl 40 Clear
2005 Super Bowl 39 Clear
2004 Super Bowl 38 None
2003 Super Bowl 37 Purple
2002 Super Bowl 36 None
2001 Super Bowl 35 Yellow