OnceDear
Posted by OnceDear
Dec 17, 2021

Exploitable Loss Rebate

An observation, and, I suppose a request for help and opinions.

My main online casinos gives me a 5% loss rebate, paid once per month. Which is nice. But I think they may have given me a +EV situation. Here's why I think this.

Today I got a £54 loss rebate. No wagering requirement! Nice. Thank you. Why? I didn't lose!

This month, I played most days. Typically I bought in for £50, £100 or £200 per day, which I either lost or doubled or better. At least one day I turned £200 into £800 and at least a couple of times I turned £300 or more into nothing. Swings and roundabouts. Anyway, over the last 30 days, I deposited £5100 and cashed out £5700 for a net profit of £600 (rough figures)
So clearly I was not eligible for a loss rebate???
But I received one, of £54. So at 5%, they reckon I lost £1020 over the month. But taking the 30 days as a whole, I won!
I conclude that they must, therefore be setting aside my loss rebate individually every day!. Days where I lose, I get a rebate credited and days where I win, I get nothing. It's a reasonable estimate that the sum of the losses on my losing days would indeed be about £1000.
This surprises me. If I were the casino, I would assess my profit or loss, just once, covering the 30 day period. Thus I would not have given any rebate. Doing it on 30 individual 24 hour periods, they are giving me 5% on ROUGHLY 15 days and 0% on 15 days. Or, on average they are giving me 2.5% of my buy-ins!

So.... +Ev scenario...... Rough, back of the envelope estimate....
Each day, credit my account with say £1,000.
Make one low edge wager at roughly even money. Say one hand of Blackjack at 0.4% house edge.
If it's a push, rebet till I win or lose.
Underlying EV over the 30 day month = 30 X 1,000 X -0.004 = -120

*Ignoring blackjacks or splits or doubles, for the moment I would lose on average 16 days (53%) and win on average 14 days.

Loss rebate 16 x 1,000 X 0.05 = £800
Subtract the £120 I lose to the house edge and I have +EV of £680 per month.

There is a downside: Variance
Overall Standard Deviation =sqroot(30) x 1.14 x 1000 = £6244
So each month I have +EV of £680 +/- £6244 to one standard deviation.

Now. That's one way of doing it. Variance is high, so it comes at a big risk. Let's consider what happens if we try to maximise EV....

Similar situation, but lets say, we aspire to lose on 29 days of the month and win back all of those losses on the 30th day ( not necessarily the last day.) We need to engineer a session wager that pays 30 for 1. Easy enough to do. I could, have a daily win goal of 29,000 profit using the most aggressive 'All in' positive progression: Wager 1,000, win, wager 2,000, win. wager 4,000, win, wager 8,000 win, wager 16,000 win, wager 13,000 win. If that last wager loses, just keep max wagering in the same way, till I profit 29,000 or lose 1,000. Obviously, on average I lose 29 days out of 30. Ignoring the possible ebb and flow if I lose that last wager, my average daily wager would be sum(1000+2000/2+4000/4+8000/8+16000/16+ 13000/32) = £5406
Overall Standard deviation for the month would be sqroot(30) x 1.14 x 5406 = 33,750
Loss rebate value = 29 x 1,000 x 0.05 = 1450
Clearly much more risky but almost twice as valuable in rebates.

Each day I would expose an average of £5406 to the house edge, with a bit more if there was any ebbing and flowing for the last few wagers. House edge cost 30 x 5406 x 0.004=1297. AH.! That didn't cost in! I need to revisit this. Consult some proper Advantage players or mathematicians.

Thank you anyway, Online casino.

* ensuring I have enough reserve funds to cover any splits or doubles is a given.

Comments

BleedingChipsSlowly
BleedingChipsSlowly Dec 27, 2021

Assuming the casino is offering only -EV gaming, isnít 5% less of that -EV still -EV? Good luck devising a system of wagering that is not subject to that.

Mission146
Mission146 Dec 27, 2021

BleedingChipsSlowly,



5% of the money lost would ideally exceed the -EV of the bets being made.



For example, if you were to make a $1,000 Pass Line bet on Craps, then your negative EV would be:



(1000 * .4929) - (1000 * .5071) = -$14.20



However, the casino is giving you $50 on the losses back in the event that you lose the first bet. Being an online casino, I should assume that this must be played through once to be withdrawable, but maybe not.



If the casino did return the $50 as cash withdrawable, then effectively, a player would only stand to lose $950 if the bet is lost, ergo:



(1000 * .4929) - (950 * .5071) = $11.155



Thus, the expectation of the overall proposition becomes positive, despite the fact that Craps still has a House Edge.



Anyway, different rebates and rules associated therewith call for different ways to play them, but that's a simple illustration meant to reflect, in the simplest terms, why rebates can sometimes result in a positive expectation.



Another thing that we will notice is that the value is only technically REALIZED upon a loss. For that reason:



.05 * .5071 = .025355



(14.20+11.155)/1000 = 0.025355



In other words, the effective change in value is 2.5355% to the good and the player's expectation (in this example) of winning $11.155 reflects a 1.1155% overall advantage.

OnceDear
Posted by OnceDear
Nov 10, 2021

Now 30!!! More Winning Sessions

Time once more for a little trip report from the last week or so. Online wagering. Low LOW stakes.

Here I present the course of my online bankroll for the period 5 Nov to 14 Nov.
This comprised 15 30 consecutive winning sessions. I start with a zero account balance and I'll confess now the first winning session was actually just break even. But It felt like a win after being heavily down.



Note how I did what I refer to as Marty at the buy-in level: When i lost £100 buy-in, I would buy in with £250 with which to claw it back. Had I lost that £250, I'd have had to buy in bigger again, say £400. I was lucky. That didn't happen in this interval. Not to say what happened just before $;o) Some times I initially bought in with £150 or even £250

Within each session, I wagered as the mood took me. Typically 2,4,6,10,15,30 progressive.

Progressives are just a fun way to lose money.

Session #1: I credited £150 and lost it. Credited £250 and clawed back to a balance of 400 : Breakeven Cash out.
Session #2: Credited £0 but was awarded £25 freeplay. Played it up to £200.08: I call that a win. Cash out.
Session #3: Credited £50 Played it up to £70.55: Another win. Cash out.
Session #4: Credited £100 Played it up to £100.90: Another win of just £0.90. Still a win. Cash out.
Session #5: Credited £100 Lost it. Credited £200 Played it up to £300.50: Another win of just £0.50. Cash out.
Session #6: Credited £150 Played it up to £200.66: Another win. Cash out.
Session #7: Credited £100 Played it up to £201.50: Another win. Cash out.
Session #8: Credited £100 Played it up to £200.50: Another win. Cash out.
Session #9: Credited £100 Played it up to £200: Another win. Cash out.
Session #10: Credited £100 Lost it. Credited £250 Played it up to £350.50: Another £0.50 win. Cash out.
Session #11: Credited £100 Played it up to £200.50: Another nice win. Cash out.
Session #12: Credited £100 Played it up to £201.50: Another nice win. Cash out.
Session #13: Credited £150 Played it up to £207.14: Another win. Cash out.
Session #14: Credited £100 Lost it. Credited $250. Played it up to £350.50: Another £0.50 win. Cash out.
Session #15: Awarded £50 free play. Played it up to £200.20: Another win. Cash out.

So, over these 15 sessions I profited £1035.75
[To be updated]
There were a few similar winning sessions before this period, but one biggish loser, so I only start this report where I can show consecutive winners. That's the power of selective reporting.

Most sessions were played at low stakes RNG AC Blackjack. Typical wagers £2 to £20 with some neg progressive wagering. I know. Not exactly high rolling.

Session 2 I played a carney game. First two wagers were very lucky in that I got a multiplayer which brought me to £175. There was £750 wagering requirement, So I covered every slot and let it auto play at £6 per spin. That took me straight up to £200.80 with the help of some multipliers.

Session 15 I played a carney game. First two wagers I parlayed up to £190. There was £1500 wagering requirement, So I covered every slot and let it auto play at £10 per spin. That left me with £145 balance which i took over £200 with AC Blackjack.

Comments

Dieter
Dieter Nov 10, 2021

Congratulations on the £0.50 win!



... and the others.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

Many a mickle makes a muckle



There were three 50p wins and that huge 90p win, interspersed with a few session double ups.

Three times I'd fronted buy-ins of £350 and nearly lost them, and that first session I almost lost £400. The bankroll chart has the typical 'stairs and plunge' shape of a martingale. I was just lucky to avoid any bigger plunges.



It would not have taken much to have had to do the next level £400 top-up, which would put me in un-charterd waters of trying to claw back from a grave situation.



Anyhow: I'm pleased to report another winning session last night, bringing the trip to 16 wins. Once more, I lost my first £100 buy in and very nearly lost my £250 follow up before clambering to £390.28 for a £40.28 profit. A few harem scarem hands where they kept splitting and doubling till I had all, or nearly all of my bankroll in play at the same time.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

And now I'm going to claim a 17th consecutive winning session. A bit cheeky, but I just completed it..



Logged in to see my balance at zero from the latest cashout.

They had a slot of the week promo: Buy in for £100 get £10 of free spins. So it was a no brainer.

Deposited £100, intending to risk none of it. Was awarded the 100 free spins at 10p each.

Played the free spins only. Cashed out £114.00 for an easy win. They can tease me and expect me to lose my £100, but it's a weekly ritual now. Take the free money and leg it.



Ya gotta take what they give and not give it back.



Currently, by logging in each day, I get between £5 and £25 of daily free play. Not bad for the trivial action that I give them. Don't even need to leave the house. If there are wagering requirements, I usually have a stab at parlaying the whole lot and then if that works, go for min variance coverage of a carney game and let it autoplay. Twice this week, that has worked out very well indeed, giving me two £200 days. Sessions 2 and 15.



I know..... Low roller!

ChumpChange
ChumpChange Nov 11, 2021

"Within each session, I wagered as the mood took me. Typically 2,4,6,10,15,30 progressive."

I'm confused. Are these progressive bets increased on a loss or a win? Like you bet Red and win, do you increase your bet from 2 to 4? Or do you increase your bet from 2 to 4 when your even money bet loses? Or do you do both?



Also, do you multiply your bets by the multiplier of your buy-in, roughly? So on a 400 buy-in, your progression is 4 times what you were betting at a 100 buy-in (8, 16, 24, 40, 60, 120)?



Then there's your win goals, which appear to be different from months ago and are now 100% of your current buy-in and not just 50%.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

Hi CC. Good questions.



They were negative progressions, increasing wager on a loss. Not a strict Marty, which is too scarey. 2,4,6 would bring me back to even if it won on the third bet. 10,15,30 would hopefully get me close to even. Another reason for going short on Marty is the potential of a double or split leaving me making unduly massive wagers.



When I get near to my win goal, I drop wagers so as to 'sneak up on it'. E.g if balance is 195 and goal is 200, I'd wager just 2 if at 197 or more, just 1. If at 185, maybe wager 4 etc. No hard and fast rule. I just try to ensure that a double or split won't cause me to overshoot my goal too far.



Yes. If I started with 100 buy in, my progressive might start 5, 10, 15... but if I buy in 250, it might be 10, 20, 30...

My thinking is that the smaller the wager, the more action I would expose to the house edge and the more I would lose. But the smaller the wager, also the smaller the variance. I NEED variance to win or lose significantly. Low variance good at close to goal.



Win goals a bit arbitrary, typically credit 100 aim to double it, or maybe just win 50. Where sessions run bad, I tend to make my win goal just an escape at any small profit: E.g. having lost 100 and bought in again at 250, I'd be delighted to just claw back to 350.50.



Those times I started with £25 of freeplay, my win goal was not a monetary amount. I just aspire to meet the wagering requirement. I was lucky on sessions 2 and 15 in that both times a 100% wager on even money bet did win twice. In one case I got a multipler so my £25 almost instantly became £175 From there, I just went cover every slot for min variance and let rip the autoplay.



Note throughout this, I was just having fun. This was purely recreational play. It does not constitute any kind of winning strategy, method or system. I report trips like this for amusement. The non-amusing big losing sessions are soon forgotten and are seldom reported.

Remember too, that I've had plenty of really bad sessions where I lost 50, 100, 250, 250, 500 or similar before going to bed in a bad mood. I just regroup after those and don't try to claw it back.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

Make it 18!

A more modest win goal tonight. If I'm to get 20 in a row, a couple more modest win targets should do it.



Winning sessions is easier than winning money.



Buy in £100

Again RNG AC Blackjack.

Max bet was £10 . Low point was £80 . Target achieved within 15 minutes

Cashed out £150

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

And so it's now 19!

19 Consecutive winning sessions



For this one, I was awarded £1 of freeplay. Whoop di doo. Played that to win 10p

Credited £100 with win goal £150

Flat bet RNG Blackjack at £10

Min balance £80.10

Final balance £150.10 Cashed out



I expect session 20 will be along shortly.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

So. Onto session 20. I wanted it so bad. But somebody will be along soon to tell me my state of mind was wrong. Bah! humbug!



Buy in £100. Objective to cash out £150

BUT. This was about winning the session. I sure as hell didn't want to lose 100, then lose 250, then lose 500

I was having none of that.

.

.

.

.

But fate was to tease me. Tease me and shake me to the core.



First £10 wager lost. fair enough

Second £10 wager lost. DAMMIT

Third £10 wager lost. I was down to £70 and my probability was slipping fast.

Did 5, 10, 15 progressive and ebbed and flowed till I somehow scrambled to £110 but it was a grind. Thought I'd carry on for my goal, but Jeez the cards were kicking me in the teeth. Every double, I lost. Most times the dealer had an ace, he had a blackjack. If I got two face cards to a dealer 6, he would pull a 21 out of his ***. If I had 19, against dealer 5 he'd get to 20. Etc, Etc. It was relentless. Soon I was down to £65. I could feel it in my bones. This was going to be a bad double buy-in loser.





Anyhow, by the grace of zod, I scrambled pound by pound up to £105. Then whack, back down to 75....

.

and again somehow back to 103.. I thought, I'd just wager the 3..... bloody had to double, then lost it.

.

and so back down to 75.

.

I was spooked. This £75 suddenly felt at risk, and in my gut, I felt the next £750 would be lost after it.

,

Now, I crawled and I ground and I scrambled back to 100.5

.

.

.

.

.

To hades with this. I cashed out £100.50 for a 50p session profit. Win goal not achieved!

I'd never got beyond £110 and spent a good 30 minutes crawling out of holes.

This was a session win and I'd just got to book it.



So. Session 20 ignobly won 50p



Unless I get a good daily bonus in 93 minutes time, I'm going to declare this 'Trip report' Finished!

No session 21 in a hurry.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 11, 2021

I lied, unintentionally.



There was to be no session 21

But then i saw that my profit over 20 sessions was £1190.63

It would be rude not to round that up to £1200



So I did. Buy in 100 small progressive up to 110

Giving me a new trip total profit over 21 sessions of £1200.63



It was fun, but when the fun stops, stop.



I stopped

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 12, 2021

Session 22...... Well, I had a free-roll



All that action over the last week earned me a £22 cash bonus. No wagering requirement it was free money which I could just cash out..... Weird! It was supposedly my monthly 5% loss rebate. But over the last 30 days I took a profit of about £1200. Oh hum. They know what they are doing.



So. Flat bet £1 till I reached £25.50 : RNG Blackjack

That's a 10% uplift and will buy me a treat



Logging the session as another win. Shall I call it a win of £3.50 or £25.50?

I think £25.50, as none of it would have happened without the previous action.



So Trip profit NOT 'more or less even' : Definitely UP £1226.13

That's roughly 3 times my original £400 at risk.

So, I'd made heavy weather out of winning effectively a 1 chance in 3 proposition. Not so impressive when we look at it that way. There have surely been a few previous sessions where I lost £400 and shrugged. But I didn't report those!



Don't try this at home. Unless you want a bit of fun and are prepared to pay for it.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 13, 2021

And now we are 23. I only report it because it was a win.

I'd had £25 freeplay with £750 wagering requirement. I threw it all on the carny game Crazy Time and lost it immediately. Bought in £100 to go and have a play at Lightning BlackJack. Flat betting £1 + £1 lightning fee.



It's a DREADFUL GAME! Wizard has it's house edge at 18% though evolution gaming say you can get 99.56% return. I DON'T BELIEVE THEM. Whatever optimal strategy is, it's going to be nothing like BlackJack Basic strategy. I just cannot see 99.56% RTP being possible.



The bankroll attrition to the £1 fee was relentless. Very soon I was down to £70 I licked my wounds and switched to RNG Atlantic City Blackjack. Betting 5,10,15 progressive I got down to £50 then back up to £85. Then some smaller wagers I clawed to my original £100. Realising that I could easily reach Consecutive win session No# 23, I marty wagered from base bet of £1 to get to £101.

Cashed out another profit. Only £1 profit but it was an achievement to claw back my £30 initial loss.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 13, 2021

And now we are at #24

Revisited Lightning Blackjack with £100

It truly is the most dreadful rip off. Soon lost £20

Switched to AC Blackjack. bobbed about a bit, cashed out £101.28

The .28 was from 3 free spins of a slot.



Session wins: Absolute doddle.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 13, 2021

Time for something more significant.

Felt reckless

Credited initial buy in of £250

Played 10,20,30 (Never had to go further)

When I got to 330, reined it back. to 5,10,15,20,20

When I got to 340, reined it back. to 2,4,6,6



Cashed out 351 for another £101 profit.



I do wonder if the RNG AC Blackjack is badly rigged.



Trip profit now >£1300

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 13, 2021

Oh Boy

Session 26 was the most dramatic and dangerous



Bought in £250: Lost it quickly

Bought in £250: My biggest cumulative buy in so far.

Playing 10,20,30,40.50 progressive

All over the place. Well expected to lose it. Got down to 140



Clawed some way back.

Last hand, wager 40

Split to 4 hands. One of those doubled £240 on the table: Won them all

cashed out £518



PHEW!

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 14, 2021

Session 27

Again I had £25 freeplay with £750 wagering requirement. Dumped that on one spin of carny game.

Bought in £250. did a few £10 and £20 wagers (RNG BJ again)

pushed onward to £340 with £10 and £15 wagers. Then dropped to £2,£4 ,£4 progressive to sneak up on £350

Cashed out £350.50 for another nice £100.50 profit.



Back of the envelope totting up for the week, I think this brings me £1430.41 or so profit.

It's just luck folks. Recreational play. Probably doing too much of it. I could now withstand a triple buy-in nightmare of £100, £250, £400, £600 but that would probably lose back the whole trip profit.

Been fabulously lucky to not need to do even a triple buy-in, YET.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 14, 2021

Session 28. Oh Boy. What a doozie!

I figured I'd waste £50 or so trying a few strategy variations on Infinity Blackjack (Don't go near it)



So, I reversed my recent £350.50 withdrawal to give me something to play with. Actually managed to get about £30 ahead, but it didn't hold and soon I had burned my way down to £300

Obvious next port of call, my faithful RNG Atlantic City Blackjack. I'd soon win that 50 back!

But it was not to be. Luck evaded me and I dumped the lot!.



£350 in the hole on just one big buy-in. What was I to do? I toyed with licking my wounds and booking the loss.

Alternatively, maybe buy in big, say £700 and use that to claw it back.

But I just didn't fancy doing that. This was to be my undoing.

I compromised. Bought in for £250. Not really enough firepower for any aggressive claw back. But I wasn't game to lose more than £600 on a session. Just not got the stomach for it.





So, how did it go?





Not well.My £250 ebbed quickly to £200 playing £10, £20, £30

At one point I wagered £40 and it spit to 3 hands, which I won. But these were big swings. Max bet was £40

I clawed and I ground until I hit £400. Seriously considered accepting the £200 session loss. Far better than a worse case scenario.

But I continued.....

£480



£500



Crikey. This would have been a good place to quit, being just £100 down.



But no..... Smaller 5,10,15 wagers and I ground it up to £580

Then 2,4,6 Ground it to £601.50



Holy Shmoley.

A £700 potential hole dug out of for a session win of £1.00



That was just [expletive] Stupid.

But there you go. 28th winning session. Roll on next freeplay.



And to hell with Infinity BlackJack. It's evil

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 15, 2021

So, in deference to the Great MDawg, and not wanting to look uncool in his steely gaze, I upped the ante.

Tonights session, I started by crediting 10,000 to my online account. My win goal was to be 10,000 on top.



Started with a 1,000 wager level, more or less flat betting. At one point I was down to 7,000 and upped my wager to 1,500 Got a split and won both bringing me back level. Chucked down more wagers of 1,000 and 2,000 until i reached 18,000

As per previous practice, i scaled down my wagers to 400 and soon reached 19,000 Just a few wagers of 200 and 400 and I ended up at 20,200 Cashed out. Easy win, only needed the one buy in. Feeling its time to up the ante again. Will buy in for 100,000 next time with a win goal of 50,000





















Pity I was playing in pennies

So uncool

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 16, 2021

And before bed, I did session 30

I decided to do it in good honest Pounds Sterling and bought in £100

Lost that in short order (under 10 minutes)

Buy-in 2 was for £250

Clawed back to even, and contrary to what some may suggest, I continued on to my uncool win goal. Cashed out £405.04 for a £55.04 profit (The 4p was from a free slots spin)

Total session time about 33 minutes.

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 17, 2021

Session 31 was stymied!



Bought in £100. Lost it.

Bought in £250. Lost it

went to buy in for another £300 but hit up against my monthly Deposit limit of £10,000. It would only let me buy in for £30.

Bought in for £30 and lost it.



Oh Hum £380 down. End of the winning streak

OnceDear
OnceDear Nov 18, 2021

A footnote to session 31 where I had deposited and lost £380....



Next day I was able to deposit just £200, so I did,



Lost my way down to £17 and a few times wagered everything, against good judgement. Did that a few times and somehow stumbled back over £200. Continued to play up ebbing and flowing until I managed to cash out £301.50



So. getting down to 17 was dumb. Actually clawing a recovery and profit of £101 was remarkably lucky.



Still stymied by my deposit limit.

OnceDear
Posted by OnceDear
Sep 25, 2021

Never Argue With A Fool

..., onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." ― Mark Twain

Or is it...
"Never argue with an idiot they'll drag you down to their level and beat you through experience." -- Mark Twain

Anyway. this amused me from 05:10 and 07:50 especially

Comments

odiousgambit
odiousgambit Oct 01, 2021

for the video, where he went wrong was worrying with a budget to start with. Just tell your wife 'we're broke' once in a while and that might slow her down a bit.



at least this guy was operating when there were no credit cards

OnceDear
Posted by OnceDear
Sep 23, 2021

The Earth Is Flat

... Obviously, except for islands and mountains and a few dips and hollows.

It is, and I NEED you naysayers to prove it's not, once and for all. Why won't they or can't they prove it?

Some say the Earth is roughly a globe, but like most things in science, new theories often come along to replace the established scientific opinions, all the time. Just like it used to believed that the sun revolved around the earth, that theory has now been debunked. The earth, has now been proven to revolve about the moon roughly once every 28 days and the sun rotates around the moon in a precisely defined, complex non-circular path. Other theories come up as science progresses and it's now claimed that the sun and all our local planets revolve around something in the Milky Way galaxy. See how science evolves as old ideas are proved wrong? Incidentally, if the earth is in the milky way, how come we can see the Milky Way from the outside? See how easily these naysayers so called 'theories' collapse when we question them. That's how science advances!

Now, naysayers come up with all sorts of evidence for their 'theories' but these 'theories' only apply in the realms of maths and physics and cannot be shown to apply to everything in the real universe.

Naysayers come up with formulae and so called 'evidence', but believers are right to question this 'evidence': Photo's of the earth taken from the moon seem to show the earth as blue and round, but that's easily refuted since the whole idea of there ever being a camera on the moon, let alone a man is already widely debunked. Plus, if the earth is blue and white, how come it was grey and green in the Universal Studios trailers? So called naysayers never explain that paradox. Ask yourself why! Is it just a cover up fabricated in movie studios?

And anyway, even if there was a way of photographing the earth from space, it's only a 2 d image. So maybe the earth is a flat disk. But these naysayers just dismiss this possibility out of hand and deride the believers. The naysayers can be quite insulting and rather than present their 'proof', they attack and deride the believers. They talk about space stations and satellites orbiting the earth, but when observed through simple telescopes, by earth-bound believers, they are seen to fly horizontally across the sky until they reach the edge of the earth and then go out of sight as they flip over to the other side of the earth disk and again fly flat over that side. Some satellites are so called geostationary and just hover stationary over one place. Naysayers explain how that can happen with your precious 'round earth theory'? Still I digress.

Naysayers come up with all sorts of 'formulae' that they say show that they are right, but they cannot prove the earth is a globe by drilling a tunnel through the centre. Have they tried? If not, why not. It's as though these naysayers just cannot get the budget to test their theories. And even if they could, that wouldn't prove that the earth is not a simple disk. So, naysayers, where is the real proof that backs up your so called 'evidence'. I don't claim to be a super mathematical genius, so prove it to me in real world, laymans' terms without trying to baffle me with science. Or aren't you naysayers as clever as you claim?

There are several believers that have built websites that prove the earth is flat and they just get constantly attacked and derided by the naysayers. Ask yourself why? Is it about money or mineral rights? These naysayers certainly seem to have a lot of money to make their case, but nobody asks themselves why??? Follow the money, I say. Find out what the naysayers are hiding.

If these naysayers are so clever, how come they can't explain their opinions and 'theories' without referring to certain pet formulae and other debunked or un-proved theories? They don't even stick to the same so called 'proof' but just line up 'evidence' upon 'evidence', as if that proves anything! We believers are right to ask questions and this forum would be a better place if it could have a sub-forum where these debunked so called 'scientific' naysayers could be challenged. It would need to be properly moderated, because these naysayers can be quite insulting.

I accept that it's the policy of this forum to support the 'round earth theory' and believers just get told basically to be quiet and go away. when believers ask further questions they get insulted and derided and even suspended. That's not fair. Those naysayers are the ones that should be suspended for their insults. I've had to resort to blocking some of these naysayers.

Some references for further study
https://mindblastingabraham.wordpress.com/2017/06/14/the-flat-earth-logic/
* Note it confusingly calls the naysayers 'BLIND BELIEVERS Ė of Greek Mythology based wing of [Modern Science'
http://www.flatearthlogic.net/
"Only believe in what you, yourself can prove"
200 proofs the earth is not a spinning ball

Comments

Wellbush
Wellbush Sep 23, 2021

I always knew it was flat od, i just need to look outside.

Wellbush
Wellbush Sep 23, 2021

okay. i've read it all the way through now od. very funny. it would be a great article to promote. put it in the miscellaneous thread, or something

Johnzimbo
Johnzimbo Sep 23, 2021

I certainly have never see the word naysayers used more often than I just did

OnceDear
OnceDear Sep 23, 2021
odiousgambit
odiousgambit Sep 23, 2021

"I certainly have never see the word naysayers used more often than I just did" naysayers always say that



In all seriousness, to me the flat earth people are amazing in one particular way at least. I've looked into the history of such thinking and it's pretty clear that it has a religious origin, even though the Bible does not say the Earth is flat. Yet that the Earth was a globe originally seemed to bother religious sensibilities the most. I'm talking about the people who attempt to put together a thoughtful argument, not the ordinary peasant of the day who might just assume the earth was flat.



Today, though, these fervent flat earth folks seemed to be not comprised at all by devout Christians and such. They seem to have created their own religion in a way. Amazing.

OnceDear
OnceDear Sep 23, 2021

Quote: wellbush

okay. i've read it all the way through now od. very funny.



I'm insulted! I could suspend you, but with an attitude like yours, I think I'll just block you along with all the other naysayers.





Only joking! $:o)

Wellbush
Wellbush Sep 23, 2021

The article in its entirety gets joke of the day for 09/23

OnceDear
OnceDear Sep 24, 2021

Wellbush,

How would you feel if I responded to any of your started threads with that comment?

"This thread in its entirety has to qualify for joke of the day"



I reckon you would be quite insulted, would you not?

Wellbush
Wellbush Sep 25, 2021

Well, come to think of it, I need to start looking at things from a naysayers perspective. You're right OD.



But believers (well I'm bi - part believer, part naysayer) can also be right. Just look at Ethel.

OnceDear
Posted by OnceDear
Apr 17, 2021

My Freeplay Trip Report

Last of the high rollers !!! A trip report worthy of Nathan!

Today I logged onto my online casino and found a random £100 of slots freeplay, on selected slots 30x wagering requirements. BORING. I don't care much for slots. I wasn't expecting to cash anything out from that.

So I selected a game. 'Rainbow Riches' and let it auto-spin a while at £2..... Very soon, I hit a £400 win, and when my balance reached £500 I switched to £5 per spin.

I left it running in the background as I got on with some chores. At one point, I looked in and had a '15 free spins' round... Which won more and more andstill more free spins. In fact that round gave 60 free spins which seriously boosted my balance to up over £1,800.

I checked remaining WR and had about £2200 to go. So I cranked it up to £10 a spin and let it get on with it. I expected to maybe cash out at least about £500. As it transpired I reached the end of Wagering requirements with a balance of just over £1,350. With hindsight, it had been a bit harsh on me in that I'd lost about about £450 from coin in of that approx £2200 It seems that game gives most of the returns in 'big wins' and I had few or no big wins in that final phase.

Now, feeling flush with free cash, I messed about with RNG blackjack for a while, and though I ebbed and flowed ( mostly ebbed) I finally cashed out proper my final balance of £1050, for no particular reason. KerChing!

Oh hum. Roll on next freeplay bonus.

Comments

odiousgambit
odiousgambit Apr 17, 2021

>Roll on next freeplay bonus.



I guess so!

vegas
vegas Apr 23, 2021

Interesting and makes you feel great when you win off of free money. I am in Canada and they always limit our bets to just 5 dollars max bet while on a bonus or free spins.



Thanks for the report.

Wellbush
Wellbush Apr 28, 2021

And here in Australia, online gambling is banned! Ya need to go to a B&M casino to play. Not kidding!

OnceDear
OnceDear Apr 28, 2021

Really Wellbush? I know of Online gaffs that not only accept Australian members, but take addresses and let you play in AUD using AU IP addresses. So to what extent is it illegal? Illegal to offer, or illegal to play?

Wellbush
Wellbush May 02, 2021

Illegal to play

Wellbush
Wellbush Sep 23, 2021

just clarifying, i'd say it's illegal to both play and offer online casino gaming services (table games and slots) in australia. i've been stating this recently in the "negative progression" thread, i think. it's not illegal to offer online betting on races, sports, and lotteries.