Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 9th, 2018 at 12:50:27 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

Wonder what would happen if casino owners banned tipping dealers?



That won't happen. But colluding with a dealer to manipulate the rules and take money from the casino isn't a real good career decision.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
MaxPen
MaxPen
Joined: Feb 4, 2015
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September 9th, 2018 at 12:53:58 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

That won't happen. But colluding with a dealer to manipulate the rules and take money from the casino isn't a real good career decision.


ZCore13



A lot of people in the industry probably thought pooling and redistribution wouldn't happen either.
darkoz
darkoz
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RS
September 9th, 2018 at 1:04:02 PM permalink
Not to be argumentative but I as I think it over I am not certain this would be illegal

In order to be illegal the collusion would have to involve the dealer breaking or altering the rules of the game

Although weird a minimum player wager and maximum tip wager if it is within the rules and if the dealer did nothing to affect the outcome of the cards as played would technically not be breaking the law

The house either wins on the wagers or loses per the rules house edge and normal gameplay

Technically what the dealer want to do with his hard earned tips is his business

He can even hand over his entire paycheck to a friend who gambles at his table. Thats not illegal either
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Zcore13
Zcore13
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September 9th, 2018 at 1:15:32 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Not to be argumentative but I as I think it over I am not certain this would be illegal

In order to be illegal the collusion would have to involve the dealer breaking or altering the rules of the game

Although weird a minimum player wager and maximum tip wager if it is within the rules and if the dealer did nothing to affect the outcome of the cards as played would technically not be breaking the law

The house either wins on the wagers or loses per the rules house edge and normal gameplay

Technically what the dealer want to do with his hard earned tips is his business

He can even hand over his entire paycheck to a friend who gambles at his table. Thats not illegal either



Would you be willing to take that risk? My guess would be charges might not stick, but you'll probably spend a day or two in jail, be on the news, pay for an attorney, etc.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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September 9th, 2018 at 1:21:33 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Would you be willing to take that risk? My guess would be charges might not stick, but you'll probably spend a day or two in jail, be on the news, pay for an attorney, etc.


ZCore13



Its not my hustle

But basically you just agreed with me.

If charges cant stick then its because???

Card counting caused people to get locked up at one point too
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
Zcore13
Zcore13
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
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September 9th, 2018 at 1:22:00 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

A lot of people in the industry probably thought pooling and redistribution wouldn't happen either.



The origination of pooling came from dealers, not management. Every dealer says they would make more if the kept their own. These are the same dealers that think 25% house edge side bets are good bets and give players wrong strategy when asked.

My guess would be 60% - 70% of people in the tip pool make more than what they would on their own. And many pretend to want to keep their own, but are happy with the pool.


ZCore13
I am an employee of a Casino. Former Table Games Director,, current Pit Supervisor. All the personal opinions I post are my own and do not represent the opinions of the Casino or Tribe that I work for.
FinsRule
FinsRule
Joined: Dec 23, 2009
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September 9th, 2018 at 1:46:41 PM permalink
I didnít read all the posts, but this practice would soon change if you did it. And the dealer would be fired.

I canít see how it would be worth it unless the dealer was quitting that day and never wanted to deal or use that place as a reference.
Venthus
Venthus
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September 9th, 2018 at 1:49:02 PM permalink
If I'm reading this properly, the advantage comes from the fact that you'd never fold the ante-tip, so, thus eliminating the loss of the ante on the ~1/3rd of hands that you'd wouldn't play. I don't see any info regarding the percentage of hands that don't qualify, though it's fairly close to the hands you don't play, so it's also approximately 1/3rd.

As a result, napkin math suggests this difference comes into play on ~1/9th of the hands, turning a -1 into a +1. If this is being done with matching bets, you'd've folded that 1/9th that won, turning a -2 into a 0. All in all, I'm ballparking an advantage in the low 10s, which is still ultimately a futile prospect since this is predicated upon finding a dealer and house that's willing to let this fly. (And I'm sure the dealer'll want a cut too.) Oh well. Interesting thought exercise over morning coffee.
speedycrap
speedycrap
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RS
September 9th, 2018 at 5:07:34 PM permalink
Quote: Zcore13

Would you be willing to take that risk? My guess would be charges might not stick, but you'll probably spend a day or two in jail, be on the news, pay for an attorney, etc.


ZCore13

And then the dealer can sue for wrongful dismissal, wrongful prosecution. Big money coming.
gordonm888
gordonm888
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MaxPenmcallister3200RSspeedycrap
September 9th, 2018 at 5:34:10 PM permalink
All, remember that Zcore13 has said in this forum that he is in a supervisory/management position in a casino and, also on this forum, has always expressed a viewpoint that is tantamount to an ideological belief that a casino has a sovereign and legal right to all the money that players possess. Arguing with him by using logic is pointless, IMO. You might as well throw a rock at the moon and try to knock it from the sky.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.

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