House Money side-bet in Aspers, Stratford
It's £5 minimum, £50 maximum *per player*.
The side-bet is based only on the player's two cards, and pays as follows:
Straight - 1 to 1
Pair - 3 to 1
Straight Flush - 4 to 1
A-K Suited - 9 to 1
The player then has 2 choices:
1. Take all the winnings from the side bet, and keep them immediately.
2. Gamble some or all of the winnings, by putting it on top of your bet, and playing the hand.
If the dealer shows a picture or an Ace, this side bet is placed in a separate position in front of your main bet. If the dealer gets Blackjack, this side bet neither wins nor loses, and instead becomes a push/stand.
Obviously, some scenarios are easy to figure out. If you get ANY blackjack where House Money also wins, you gamble it on top. It can't lose, and you'll get paid 3 to 2 on the amount you've already won. Gambling your pair of 3s against a dealer Ace is also obviously a bad decision, so you'd choose to take the money...
I've tried myself, and I've looked everywhere, but I can't see a strategy for optimum play of this side bet. The house edge is listed at about 2.5%, but is this an average, or for optimum play?
If anybody has any information, or would like to create a little side-project to get this information out there, that would be fantastic!
Quote: JaxxKamiSo, I've noticed a side-bet I haven't seen before in the Aspers Casino situated in Stratford, London.
It's £5 minimum, £50 maximum *per player*.
The side-bet is based only on the player's two cards, and pays as follows:
Straight - 1 to 1
Pair - 3 to 1
Straight Flush - 4 to 1
A-K Suited - 9 to 1
The player then has 2 choices:
1. Take all the winnings from the side bet, and keep them immediately.
2. Gamble some or all of the winnings, by putting it on top of your bet, and playing the hand.
If the dealer shows a picture or an Ace, this side bet is placed in a separate position in front of your main bet. If the dealer gets Blackjack, this side bet neither wins nor loses, and instead becomes a push/stand.
Obviously, some scenarios are easy to figure out. If you get ANY blackjack where House Money also wins, you gamble it on top. It can't lose, and you'll get paid 3 to 2 on the amount you've already won. Gambling your pair of 3s against a dealer Ace is also obviously a bad decision, so you'd choose to take the money...
I've tried myself, and I've looked everywhere, but I can't see a strategy for optimum play of this side bet. The house edge is listed at about 2.5%, but is this an average, or for optimum play?
If anybody has any information, or would like to create a little side-project to get this information out there, that would be fantastic!
I played this in London in 2014, and i agree, it's a fun bet, especially that you can pile winnings onto your main bet.
I could've sworn Wizard had listed the game and the side-bet on his site, but it's not there. Perhaps the link is broken : I'll ask.
In the mean time, any HE given (on any game) would be calculated with Optimal Play, so a strategy exists. It's usually a requirement that a game has provable numbers before a gaming jurisdiction will approve its play, and I'm sure that's true for London / UK casinos, because my game had to provide them.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=house+money+blackjack+side+bet
You'll notice the 2nd link is our very own Wizard of Odds =).
Quote: RomesHi JaxxKami, and welcome to the forums. One thing I'll say is that we have a really collective community with a lot of experts in many fields whom aren't afraid to share their knowledge. That being said (and I hope you don't take this personally) usually people aren't afraid to spend their time/energy/effort answering questions or "creating side-projects" so long as you've done your homework/research and taken the subject as far as you can with the knowledge you have. This is something that is VERY EASY to just google:
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=house+money+blackjack+side+bet
You'll notice the 2nd link is our very own Wizard of Odds =).
Thanks, Romes, but sadly, though the side-bet table is there with maybe 30 games, House Money and/or a side bet structured like the player said is not among them.
Couple links down on the google search:Quote: beachbumbabsThanks, Romes, but sadly, though the side-bet table is there with maybe 30 games, House Money and/or a side bet structured like the player said is not among them.
https://discountgambling.net/2012/08/28/house-money-bj-sidebet/
Has a strategy chart as well as how to count for the side bet.
Quote: RomesHi JaxxKami, and welcome to the forums. One thing I'll say is that we have a really collective community with a lot of experts in many fields whom aren't afraid to share their knowledge. That being said (and I hope you don't take this personally) usually people aren't afraid to spend their time/energy/effort answering questions or "creating side-projects" so long as you've done your homework/research and taken the subject as far as you can with the knowledge you have. This is something that is VERY EASY to just google:
LINK REDACTED DUE TO FORUM RULES
You'll notice the 2nd link is our very own Wizard of Odds =).
Thanks Romes, but I'm incredibly familiar with the act of googling for information, using tried numerous permutations of phrases and words, and the best I could find was somebody claiming he has the optimum strategy, but having to pay for him to email it to you.
(I also know enough about the internet to avoid doing such a thing!)
Thank you for the link you've provided teaching me how to use Google though; very informative. It appears to have found the exact same pages as me, and having used my ability to click and read... I find that the side bet I've described as not in the list!
I'm not unfamiliar with working out house edges, probability and the like, but this one is giving me a headache... I could have sworn I saw more information on it previously, but I just can't seem to find anything now.
Quote: RomesCouple links down on the google search:
LINK REDACTED
Has a strategy chart as well as how to count for the side bet.
That's perfect! I can't believe I missed it, Thank you!
And Michael, yes. If you have the bet of 50 win 9 to 1, you can put the 450 PLUS your original stake onto your bet, then get paid 3 to 2 on it, for another 750.
Doesn't happen often though, but it's lovely when it does.
The casino also gives you a bottle of tequila if you get AK or AQ spades... which is just another little perk of the table. :)
Quote: JaxxKamiThanks Romes, but I'm incredibly familiar with the act of googling for information...
lol you know I gotta razz a little now =)... I'm glad you found the info you're looking for.Quote: JaxxKamiThat's perfect! I can't believe I missed it, Thank you! ...
Quote: RomesCouple links down on the google search:
https://discountgambling.net/2012/08/28/house-money-bj-sidebet/
Has a strategy chart as well as how to count for the side bet.
Jaxx,
Discount gambling is Stephen How's site, and he's a very reputable mathematician. You should be able to use the strategy he lists, as long as his pay table matches the one you're playing. (The paytable dictates the optimal strategy on all games)
Quote: JaxxKamiThe side-bet is based only on the player's two cards, and pays as follows:
Straight - 1 to 1
Pair - 3 to 1
Straight Flush - 4 to 1
A-K Suited - 9 to 1
The house edge is listed at about 2.5%, but is this an average, or for optimum play?
How do they get this house edge value I wonder?
Also should take into concideration difference for HC and ENHC as under HC rule hands vs ace and tens have much higher EV then under ENHC. Wizard of Odds reports 2.69% for HC. So for British rules cannot be less anyway.
The UK details can be found here - https://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/blackjackhousemoney.html .Quote: BlitzHow do they get this house edge value I wonder?
Also should take into concideration difference for HC and ENHC as under HC rule hands vs ace and tens have much higher EV then under ENHC. Wizard of Odds reports 2.69% for HC. So for British rules cannot be less anyway.
When I played it they had to adopt US-like rules, i.e. the House Money bet (and presumably double/split) cannot lose if the dealer subsequently gets a Blackjack. Also, in the UK, you would double the 65 vs 10. The only downside is that you would lose the original Blackjack bet and its double/split if the dealer gets BJ.
Personally if a casino tried to argue that your bet lost to a BJ, then I would ask for its House rules, then its posted House Edge. Using reverse engineering you can then calcualte whether the rules have to be as per US.
btw the way to get House Edge is fairly simple. You look at all the winning combinations and dealer upcards (e.g. 65 vs 10) and know what the EV of that is from normal Blackjack (except for the UK you know if Dealer gets a BJ it's a standoff). Thus you either take the money or leave it running. Add this up for all the combinations.
Back in 2012 I performed an analysis of whether to add or not for this sidebet based on the matchup and the HiLo TC for a 6D game with H17. The analysis (which also covers some other situations as well) is available at the link below for those with bj21.com Green Chip access:
https://bj21.com/boards/green-chip-forums/sub_boards/posts-of-the-month-archive/topics/aug-2012-positive-ev-hands
Hope this helps!
Dog Hand
Quote: michael99000So if I have 50 on the side bet and I get A-K suited, I win 450 and I can then put that entire 500 (50+450) on top of my original blackjack bet and get paid 3-2 on the full amount ?
link to original post
I've never heard of this bet until today. There's a blog post by wizardofbuffalo today complaining about table limits interfering with the payout of his bet. The poster said he was on a $15-$300 table. He was betting $150 a hand plus $50 on the House Money side bet. He drew a suited A-K and won the $450. According to the post above, he could add up to $500 to the $150 he already had down for a $650 total bet and receive a 3:2 BJ payout on that for a total payout of $975 on the wins plus $650 back or $1625 back including the bet. He says the pit limited him to a $750 table max payout because the posted table limits are $300 which pays $450 or $750 back with the bet on a BJ. Well, what about splits and double downs? You could win up to $2400 with 4 hands doubled down! Since the pit was involved, this isn't some slot machine limit.
So either the poster lost $975-$750 or $225 on this table max payout snafu, or it was worse with bets included with a loss of $1625-$750 or $875. I couldn't discern from the original blog post what the exact scenario was. If he just added $150 from the side bet to take him to table max of $300, he would have won $300 from the side bet and $450 from the BJ or $750 total, and that may be what the pit did to him.
The wizardofbuffalo is referencing a casino near the Buffalo, NY area, which is near me. Trip Advisor reviews have customers complaining that the slots are too tight and the service is poor, and it's too smoky (pre-COVID). There have been remarks elsewhere on the internet about casinos in that area having low table maximums of around $300, so this must be one of them.
House Money | How To Play This BlackJack Game - LAST UPDATED: JULY 18, 2019
https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/side-bets/house-money/
F BUFFALO CREEK
wizardofbuffalo - September 30, 2022 2:36 am
https://wizardofvegas.com/member/wizardofbuffalo/blog/#post2513
The best idea is ask the casino manager for their view, and if they decide not to pay out, contact the Gambling Comission for their advice. Most managers in most chains will be sympathetic.
However I have heard other war stories. One was where box 1 on 3CP was dealt a RF, they had peeped at their hand, and only had a pair-plus bet, so the other cards were irrelevant. However the dealer made a misdeal and the hand voided. Sadly the rules are that all hands and voided. The manager did offer a free meal to the player, but really had little option.
A good story, I was at the BJ table and everyone only had £3 out (total £18). I can't remember the details but something went wrong, probably a face up card, dealer mess-up or similar; the manager got called and I think he just declared everyone a winner. Good PR.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gaming-business/game-inventors/10116-house-money-friggin-fantastic/
Sadly, I’ve never seen it in a casino.
I have played it in the UK quite a while ago - I think it was in Grosvenor Manchester rather than Aspers. ( https://www.ukcasinotablegames.info/blackjackhousemoney.html )Quote: DJTeddyBear...Sadly, I’ve never seen it in a casino...
The main problem for the casino was that the bet is based on US peek rules, so if you do add it and the dealer makes BJ you don't lose; thus they need to keep it seperate. Thus strangely, I think you add £25 from 6s5s to your 11v10 bet and double down, it may also apply to Aces vs A, I can't remember! Yes you can lose your original £5+£5 but not the £25+£25 (£5 at 4/1) or £20+£20 (£5 at 3/1 pair).
From my memory it does get scary if, say you're playing £5 but now have to put up £20 for the split or £25 for the double. So expect some swings!
Quote: ChumpChangeQuote: michael99000The wizardofbuffalo is referencing a casino near the Buffalo, NY area, which is near me. Trip Advisor reviews have customers complaining that the slots are too tight and the service is poor, and it's too smoky (pre-COVID). There have been remarks elsewhere on the internet about casinos in that area having low table maximums of around $300, so this must be one of them.
House Money | How To Play This BlackJack Game - LAST UPDATED: JULY 18, 2019 https://wizardofodds.com/games/blackjack/side-bets/house-money/
link to original post
Where is the Wizardofbuffalo? I googled it but couldn’t find anything.
I had a $200 main bet with $50 on the house money side bet and hit AK suited at a 15/300 table.
They will try and only pay out to what their table max payout limitations are. Technically they only
paid me $300 on the side bet, after capping my main bet at $300. So I only made $750 on the hand total.
I should have gotten paid out 1250 for the house money bet alone but they are not honorable...
I feel hitting house money for $50 should have paid 9-1 making it $500 then they should have automatically
paid out the BJ on that amount making it $1250. Anything else is criminal...
It as happening pretty quickly. But they capped my main bet at the $300 - paid out $450
on that and only gave me $300 for the side bet back. They should at least have to pay
out on the BJ for the side bet as well if they don't let you add it in to the main due to cap
restrictions.
Buffalo Creek is better since Covid ended. The place is normally pretty clean and not bad.
They make you pay for drinks while gambling unless at a $50 min table or higher. That is
ridiculous but I already get drinks free anyways via my social club card.
