DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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June 8th, 2012 at 9:18:29 AM permalink
From this 5/3/12 post in the SHFL Focus Group 2 thread:
Quote: DJTeddyBear

For the record, while I was in his office, rather that cut my time short, he invited me to sit in on a 10 minute layout and logo design meeting. To give the artists an idea of the games, we played them for a couple hands. One was one of the games from the show. The other was something so ingenious, simple, elegant - not to mention very well named - that I was practically sh*tting my pants over it.

Sigh, Roger swore me to secrecy. When he announces it, or gives me the green light to talk about it, you too will say "friggin' awesome!"


From this 6/8/12 post in the same thread:
Quote: Pacman

Quote: DJTeddyBear

And he even showed me a game that wasn't part of the focus group. It's friggin' fantastic, but he swore me to secrecy.
(Hey Roger! Is it OK to talk about that yet?)

Yes.



Most seasoned gamblers, when they hear a novice who is ahead say that they are "playing with the casino's money," will chastise that person by saying that once they win it, it's THEIR money! Be that as it may, that's kinda where the name of Roger's latest creation comes from.



During my meeting, Roger played two rounds of this game for his artists, dealing hands to all three of us. It's a BlackJack side bet, where you are paid immediately if your hand is one of the winning combinations. The first hand, one of the artists got a suited Ace and King. I don't remember what it paid, but he got a nice payday for that. (The other artist and I didn't have side bet winning hands, so we didn't even bother playing it out.)

But here's the kicker. The player has the option of adding the side bet's payout to their base game bet.

In other words, his $5 side bet paid $50 (I think that's what it was). He then had the option of adding the $50, plus the $5 side bet itself, to his $5 base bet, for a total bet of $60. He then got paid $90 for his blackjack.

For his original $10 wagered, he won $140. At Blackjack.

My immediate non-verbalized thought was, "Isn't this what Buzz was talking about? Some method for a big prize at a BJ table?"

The next round, the two artists didn't have significant hands, but I had two 9s while the dealer had a 6 up. The side bet paid, I think $10. I took that $10 plus the $5 bet and added it to the $5 I had out there for a $20 bet. Splitting 9s against a 6 is a no-brainer, right? So I split, needing to bet $20 for the second hand. It cost $20 rather than $5 had I not played the side bet or not capped my bet, 9s against a 6 is a GREAT hand to split. The first hand drew a 10 for a total of 19. Not bad. The second hand drew an Ace. Gotta double down, Right? So I pushed out another $20. I don't remember what I drew, but I remember the dealer's hand. He had a 6 up, and turned over a face card. Super! He's got 16, the best I could hope for.

Do I really need to tell you what he drew? Sigh... Let's just say I was glad I was playing with fake chips.


No offense to Roger. The mechanism used to pay the side bet could have been any run of the mill BJ side bet.

The "beauty" of this bet is that it allows players to do something that will ordinarily get you kicked out, if you're lucky, or arrested, if you're not.

It allows you to add chips to your bet after seeing your cards. Mind you, you can only add the side bet's payout and bet. Nothing additional from your stack. But it's still cool. Note that you don't have to add it all to the base bet. You can bet part and keep the rest.


And despite my personal bad luck with it for one hand, it seems obvious to me that it's going to be a winner.


Because this meeting was to allow the artists to get an idea so they could design a logo, my own design gears have been turning ever since. I envision an A frame type house with a dollar sign of the same size, drawn in a funky graphitti style. If it were me, I'd try to match the style used on the titles of the old House Party movies.

I look forward to seeing what the actual logo looks like.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
winmonkeyspit3
winmonkeyspit3
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
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June 8th, 2012 at 9:45:16 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

From this 5/3/12 post in the SHFL Focus Group 2 thread:
From this 6/8/12 post in the same thread:

Most seasoned gamblers, when they hear a novice who is ahead say that they are "playing with the casino's money," will chastise that person by saying that once they win it, it's THEIR money! Be that as it may, that's kinda where the name of Roger's latest creation comes from.



During my meeting, Roger played two rounds of this game for his artists, dealing hands to all three of us. It's a BlackJack side bet, where you are paid immediately if your hand is one of the winning combinations. The first hand, one of the artists got a suited Ace and King. I don't remember what it paid, but he got a nice payday for that. (The other artist and I didn't have side bet winning hands, so we didn't even bother playing it out.)

But here's the kicker. The player has the option of adding the side bet's payout to their base game bet.

In other words, his $5 side bet paid $50 (I think that's what it was). He then had the option of adding the $50, plus the $5 side bet itself, to his $5 base bet, for a total bet of $60. He then got paid $90 for his blackjack.

For his original $10 wagered, he won $140. At Blackjack.

My immediate non-verbalized thought was, "Isn't this what Buzz was talking about? Some method for a big prize at a BJ table?"

The next round, the two artists didn't have significant hands, but I had two 9s while the dealer had a 6 up. The side bet paid, I think $10. I took that $10 plus the $5 bet and added it to the $5 I had out there for a $20 bet. Splitting 9s against a 6 is a no-brainer, right? So I split, needing to bet $20 for the second hand. It cost $20 rather than $5 had I not played the side bet or not capped my bet, 9s against a 6 is a GREAT hand to split. The first hand drew a 10 for a total of 19. Not bad. The second hand drew an Ace. Gotta double down, Right? So I pushed out another $20. I don't remember what I drew, but I remember the dealer's hand. He had a 6 up, and turned over a face card. Super! He's got 16, the best I could hope for.

Do I really need to tell you what he drew? Sigh... Let's just say I was glad I was playing with fake chips.


No offense to Roger. The mechanism used to pay the side bet could have been any run of the mill BJ side bet.

The "beauty" of this bet is that it allows players to do something that will ordinarily get you kicked out, if you're lucky, or arrested, if you're not.

It allows you to add chips to your bet after seeing your cards. Mind you, you can only add the side bet's payout and bet. Nothing additional from your stack. But it's still cool. Note that you don't have to add it all to the base bet. You can bet part and keep the rest.


And despite my personal bad luck with it for one hand, it seems obvious to me that it's going to be a winner.


Because this meeting was to allow the artists to get an idea so they could design a logo, my own design gears have been turning ever since. I envision an A frame type house with a dollar sign of the same size, drawn in a funky graphitti style. If it were me, I'd try to match the style used on the titles of the old House Party movies.

I look forward to seeing what the actual logo looks like.



Sounds like a fun side bet. Doubling down on a soft 20, what were you thinking? :)
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 8th, 2012 at 10:12:49 AM permalink
Quote: winmonkeyspit3

Sounds like a fun side bet. Doubling down on a soft 20, what were you thinking? :)

I was thinking that I'm playing with fake chips. And that 9+1=10. And that I didn't want to pull out my Wiz strategy card in the middle of this meeting. Or something like that.....
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
winmonkeyspit3
winmonkeyspit3
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
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June 8th, 2012 at 10:25:16 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I was thinking that I'm playing with fake chips. And that 9+1=10. And that I didn't want to pull out my Wiz strategy card in the middle of this meeting. Or something like that.....



Fair enough, just looked strange as I read your post.
Paradigm
Paradigm
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:18:17 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

I look forward to seeing what the actual logo looks like.



My guess is that this is the temporary logo that was included in the investors presentation late this week.....it is listed on slide 27 (sorry, didn't see a way to link a skip to slide 27, but for the investors out there, SHFL is doing a lot these days as illustrated in all the slides).

SHFL Investor Presentation

Interesting concept in "House Money" particularly the option to add to the main bet. I believe in the "Shortie" BJ side bet (which I think was created by one of the presenters at next weeks SHFL Focus Group, he is bringing a different game to exhibit), you were required to add the winnings to your main bet. It was the one thing I didn't like about the Shortie bet as you essentially had to win twice to get paid, but you got paid a good amount due to the multiplier effect. That multiplier effect is present in "House Money" as well, but it sounds like you have the option to use it or not.

I will be interested in the full description and math once that comes out before I make a final decision on it, but it sounds very promising.
AcesAndEights
AcesAndEights
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June 8th, 2012 at 11:54:41 AM permalink
Quote: winmonkeyspit3

Sounds like a fun side bet. Doubling down on a soft 20, what were you thinking? :)

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I was thinking that I'm playing with fake chips. And that 9+1=10. And that I didn't want to pull out my Wiz strategy card in the middle of this meeting. Or something like that.....


I was thinking the same thing as winmonkeyspit3 :). For the record, you double a soft 19 against a 6 on a H17 game, but you never double a soft 20 against anything under basic strategy and any variation of "normal" rules (that I can think of).
"So drink gamble eat f***, because one day you will be dust." -ontariodealer
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 8th, 2012 at 12:05:35 PM permalink
The more I think about it, I think I might have stood on that soft 20. The bottom line is, the dealer drew a 5 to his 16 and killed me.


OK, now that we're past THAT what do you think of the House Money concept?
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
rdw4potus
rdw4potus
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June 8th, 2012 at 1:24:24 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

The more I think about it, I think I might have stood on that soft 20. The bottom line is, the dealer drew a 5 to his 16 and killed me.


OK, now that we're past THAT what do you think of the House Money concept?



That's an awesome concept. Is the side-bet mandatory? What is the mechanism for overcoming the change in the HE on the BJ game?
"So as the clock ticked and the day passed, opportunity met preparation, and luck happened." - Maurice Clarett
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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June 8th, 2012 at 1:45:14 PM permalink
It's not my game. I only saw two hands play to get the concept from a players perspective.

But I *think* the advantage given to a player who caps their bet on the regular game is not enough to overcome the edge on the side bet.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
ewjones080
ewjones080
Joined: Feb 22, 2012
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June 8th, 2012 at 3:14:43 PM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

It's not my game. I only saw two hands play to get the concept from a players perspective.

But I *think* the advantage given to a player who caps their bet on the regular game is not enough to overcome the edge on the side bet.




Precisely what I was thinking, the side bet HE must be HUGE. And I'm assuming it doesn't pay out all that often either. You can't give the players THAT much of a chance for a huge payday.

I've come to realize however, players would much rather play high house edge bets for big paydays rather than smaller house edge for smaller wins.

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