FAA grants approval for giant ferris wheel
It is important to note that you will be doing this ride extremely slowly and at great expense with no bathrooms. The London Eye takes 30 minutes to rotate, and the motion is imperceptible to most people.
I understand that for a long time a Ferris Wheel has been a sort of VaporWare in Las Vegas with many announcements but very little actual construction of one?
Is the slow speed due to high wind loads? Surely the more paying customers there are the more money is to be made. Some sightseeing and photography is expected but a high speed ride would do better financially.
Just think, now there will yet another thing to do other than going into the casino?
What was the name of that man who built the Imperial Palace? You know, the guy who decreed that there would be only showers not bathtubs because he wanted people to gamble in the casino rather than soak in the tub. Any soaking they experienced was to be in the casino! Brilliant use of a flood channel too!
Quote: FleaStiffWouldn't a virtual experience be more profitable?
No. Not for Las Vegas, and not for the site-seer.
And no - because the problem with "modern life" is that is there is TOO much virtual experience- and not enough REAL experience.
Get yer ass up 500 feet in the air over Las Vegas, and dare to say, "Oh! This is just like the Internet! It's just like the VIRTUAL experience..." ahem...
No - it ain't.
REAL experience? But in the real world she is indeed from an agency. And in the REAL world a Rockin' Olives slot machine would smell of olive oil rather than the fig oil the casino pumps in (along with all that oxygen, ofcourse).
I'm still trying to have a real experience with that sexy Asian blackjack dealer despite Paco telling me that neither she nor Dotty exists.
Quote: 7outlineawayThis is a considered a good thing to build in the current economic climate? And there's a perceived demand for it? Why, has the Stratosphere gotten too crowded?
I think people are less and less likely to go towards the Strat as more and more stuff closes. But there will be no shortage of cynicism about this ferris wheel. Vegas is not going to offer the kind of viewing environment that London does. You are more likely to be trapped with a drunk for 30 minutes in Vegas, and more likely to be trapped with a photography nut in London. While integrating a Ferris wheel into a pedestrian environment behind Imperial Palace may make sense, it won't make sense above a shopping area.
Unlike a carnival Ferris wheel, its slow speed allows people to get on and off while it's in motion.Quote: FleaStiffIs the slow speed due to high wind loads?
A faster ride is better for thrill seekers. This is designed strictly for sightseers, and riders of all ages.Quote: FleaStiffSome sightseeing and photography is expected but a high speed ride would do better financially.
Does anybody remember Palisades Amusement Park? It had a fairly tall wheel, but it was the stadard type that stoped to allow people to get on and off.
On an off-peak day during it's final year, we went and there was nobody on the wheel. That was what my father hoped for. He got on and asked the operator to stop it while he was at the top. He had cameras and 8mm movie cameras with him and took lots of pictures. He must have been up there about 5 minutes before he signaled the operator to bring him down.
My point is, a sightseeing wheel will be more popular than a thrill seeker ride - and can stand alone as an attraction. Thrill seeker rides generally need to be clustered with other rides. And in Vegas, a thrill seeker need not look any further than the Stratosphere....
Quote: pacomartinBut there will be no shortage of cynicism about this ferris wheel. Vegas is not going to offer the kind of viewing environment that London does. You are more likely to be trapped with a drunk for 30 minutes in Vegas, and more likely to be trapped with a photography nut in London.
So you go ahead and prove the cynicism while making use of it? :)
You're thinking like a local, which is ok. Tourists do flock in respectable numbers to the Eiffel Tower replica and to the Stratosphere. A tall attraction like that in a more crowded area should do well. The Vegas skyline is rather remarkable. Sure ther eare more and taller buildings, and more historical ones, in cities like London and New York, but the Vegas style is rather unique. And at night it's very different than during the daytime.
Here's some better cynicism: if they wanted to make real money, they'd offer complimentary soft drinks, cheap booze and a pay toilet in every pod :P
Quote: FleaStiffIs the slow speed due to high wind loads? Surely the more paying customers there are the more money is to be made. Some sightseeing and photography is expected but a high speed ride would do better financially.
The ferris wheel in China is 682' in diameter and makes a rotation every 20 minutes. However, they board people from both sides, and the platform moves along with the wheel so you must get into the car within the allotted time or your will roll off the edge.
The slowest one I've heard of is in Singapore which takes a full 37 minutes.
With older chair lifts at ski resorts a top speed of 5.5 mph was achieved, but the chair does bang a lot of people in the legs. Since skiing is a fairly physical activity, it is acceptable to have a certain percentage of people fall over as they are trying to get on the chair. In an emergency, the operator can hit a kill switch. Modern ski lifts use a series of giant gears and detachable chairs so that they can achieve speeds of 12-15 mph, while the chairs come to very low speeds when being boarded. They even slow them down when people get off, but most people jump off a chair and ski down a hill which doesn't require slowing down by much.
An inexpensive carnival style ferris wheel usually stops and starts repeatedly as each chair is boarded. But the motion is relatively jarring and some people get motion-sickness, thus increasing the probability of a very unpleasant ride with a sick child. It would also interfere with photography.
I suspect in Vegas they will have some kind of moving walkway so that they don't have to do a 30 minute rotation speed. A speed of 30 minutes corresponds to roughly 1 ft per second which is consistent with most escalators.
Quote: AyecarumbaIt is important to note that FAA permission was not really in doubt, as they had already approved a 500+ foot structure for the site. The real question is who is going to finance the construction? No word on that yet.
In fact, I was using the FAA ruling as a starting point to discuss what makes sense on the strip now. While a few years ago it would seem senseless to squander prime strip land on a photography platform, now it seems to be a realistic possibility. Personally, I think they should get permission to overhang the highway a certain amount, so you can get good photos of the entire strip.
Quote: pacomartinIn fact, I was using the FAA ruling as a starting point to discuss what makes sense on the strip now. While a few years ago it would seem senseless to squander prime strip land on a photography platform, now it seems to be a realistic possibility. Personally, I think they should get permission to overhang the highway a certain amount, so you can get good photos of the entire strip.
That's a very interesting idea. I wonder:
-- What happens if there is medical incident just as the bubble leaves the station? Can they quickly reverse to the affected capsule, or do they have to drive it all the way around?
-- What about the summer heat? When it is 119 degrees on a cloudless day, who is going to want to get in? It could turn out to be a giant "Ronco" broiler.
Quote: Ayecarumba
-- What happens if there is medical incident just as the bubble leaves the station? Can they quickly reverse to the affected capsule, or do they have to drive it all the way around?
-- What about the summer heat? When it is 119 degrees on a cloudless day, who is going to want to get in? It could turn out to be a giant "Ronco" broiler.
The Science Channel show "Big, Bigger, Biggest" did a show on the Singapore Flyer recently. I don't know about your first question but for the second each of their cars is air conditioned, with multiple units per car. Because the glass can get fogged from the temperature differential each car can be controlled from below. When the operator see's some fogging they adjust the temperature. Interesting too is that each car generates huge amounts of water from the AC units, too much to carry through the day. So as the car nears the exit station it dumps the collected water into a garden area near the terminal.
I couldn't find a listing for upcoming episodes but I'd guess it will air again. (and again, and again, and again).
Quote: Ayecarumba-- What happens if there is medical incident just as the bubble leaves the station? Can they quickly reverse to the affected capsule, or do they have to drive it all the way around?
The Singapore Flyer has food, blankets and other emergency items inside the passenger capsules.
The amount of engineering that would have to go into either a quick speed would be astronomical, given the weight and size involved.
I am sure they go in reverse, but it may take more than 30 minutes to reset the direction, negating any value of shifting gears.
While I agree that being in a cabin with a heart attack victim (or even someone puking out their guts), would be extremely uncomfortable, I think it is a risk you often take for more than 30 minutes.
Quote: DJTeddyBearUnlike a carnival Ferris wheel, its slow speed allows people to get on and off while it's in motion.
.
Until it crushes an old lady, or somebody fakes getting hurt and sues them out of business.
Quote: EvenBobUntil it crushes an old lady, or somebody fakes getting hurt and sues them out of business.
Not happened at the London Eye (yet)
Quote: thecesspitNot happened at the London Eye (yet)
I think they probably get on and off out of the side, so you don't have to worry about the car bumping into you. The speed should be less than one foot per second so it is probably slower than an escalator.
If they want to speed it up to get more people one so they have a 15 or 20 minute revolution, then they have to move the floor.
I wonder: if we waive this Ferris Wheel project, for how long could every casino on the strip change 6:5 into 3:2? Or for how long would both 2 and 12 pay triple in the Field? I've no idea what a Ferris Wheel costs but the cost of not having one is zilch.Quote: AyecarumbaThe real question is who is going to finance the construction? No word on that yet.
Quote: pacomartinI think they probably get on and off out of the side, so you don't have to worry about the car bumping into you. The speed should be less than one foot per second so it is probably slower than an escalator.
If they want to speed it up to get more people one so they have a 15 or 20 minute revolution, then they have to move the floor.
That's exactly how the eye works. Side loading and unloading, with different stations for each, and about one minutes between them for an attendant to jump in and give it a quick clean.
Quote: pacomartinThe speed should be less than one foot per second so it is probably slower than an escalator.
And there are hundreds of escalator accidents every year, Google it. Anytime you have to get on and off something thats moving, there will be accidents.
Quote: Brodie BruceListen, not a year goes by, not a year, that I don't hear about some escalator accident involving some bastard kid which could have easily been avoided had some parent - I don't care which one - but some parent conditioned him to fear and respect that escalator.
Quote: EvenBobAnd there are hundreds of escalator accidents every year, Google it. Anytime you have to get on and off something thats moving, there will be accidents.
Well you are correct about that. There are a lot of stories. I see escalators move at about 1.6 ft/second on average, but are permitted up to 2.1 ft/second. It seems to me that the ferris wheels should be going much slower.
But it seems to me that the danger in escalators is uncontrolled momentum. If your foot is stuck in the sides going up, or if people are falling down on top of you. That should be pretty easy to avoid on a ferris wheel.
AP of mass escalator accident in tokyo. I can't even figure out what happened here. I think something happened before the video started rolling.
Quote: pacomartinThat should be pretty easy to avoid on a ferris wheel.
It doesn't matter if its moving 1 foot per minute, its moving, and that spells accident and that spells lawyers lining up. Its inevitable. There are even accidents on the moving walkways at airports. I saw an old lady fall flat on her face when the walkway ended at McCarran in Vegas. People helped her up and she kinda staggered away.
Then it became bring couples to Vegas or even bring families to Vegas ... restaurants, shops, shows, teen arcades, bowling, movies.
Traveling around Vegas makes sense only if you own several casinos in town. So a Ferris Wheel at one end of the strip is fine, if you own half the casinos on that strip.
It used to be Vegas was interested in gamblers, then it became "visitors" who might include some gamblers. Now its Visitors who might do anything at all ranging from gambling to clubs to pools to ping-pong. Vegas no longer wants 10 gamblers at Benny Binions craps tables it wants 1,000 visitors and doesn't much care what they do. Craps or Chili, as long as you are spending money, that is clearly the only real goal.
If it takes more and more infrastructure to bring visitors, that's okay.
Quote: FleaStiffIt used to be Vegas was interested in gamblers, then it became "visitors" who might include some gamblers. Now its Visitors who might do anything at all ranging from gambling to clubs to pools to ping-pong. Vegas no longer wants 10 gamblers at Benny Binions craps tables it wants 1,000 visitors and doesn't much care what they do. Craps or Chili, as long as you are spending money, that is clearly the only real goal.
In one sense that ship sailed a long time ago with the construction of the Mirage. Non-gaming revenue passed gaming in 1999 on the Vegas strip but it didn't happen until 2005 for the state of Nevada as a whole.
But the trend seems to be accelerating in recent years.
Statewide from fiscal year 2007 to 2010 gaming revenue dropped -20.6% while non-gaming dropped -14.3%.
But your profit margin on gaming revenue was always much higher, at least traditionally. Of course there seems to be some indication that is changing. Venetian/Palazzo for the most part is not even trying to attract gamblers to Las Vegas anymore.
Maybe they should build the ferris wheel across Las Vegas Blvd, and a replica of London's Tower bridge 3 miles away by the Wynn Encore and psychologically bound the strip to that 3 mile stretch.
Quote: FleaStiff
It used to be Vegas was interested in gamblers, then it became "visitors" who might include some gamblers.
When I started going to Vegas in the mid 70's, I only went for the gambling. Nobody could conceive that in 20 years casinos would be opening all over the country. Now we can gamble almost anywhere, Vegas needs all it can get to make people want to go there. 3 new casinos have opened in my state an hour or less from where I live, in the last 4 years, and all of them are making tons of money. Vegas is becoming less and less a destination for me and thousands of others.
Quote: Ayecarumba
-- What happens if there is medical incident just as the bubble leaves the station? Can they quickly reverse to the affected capsule, or do they have to drive it all the way around?
I think flying is probably the same risk, multiplied. If you're lucky, there's a doctor on the jet and you don't need anything beyond basic treatment. Otherwise, that big ol' jet will be where you die.
Quote: rxwineI think flying is probably the same risk, multiplied. If you're lucky, there's a doctor on the jet and you don't need anything beyond basic treatment. Otherwise, that big ol' jet will be where you die.
A lovely thought 2 weeks before I get on an 11 hour flight. Thanks for the reminder.
:D
Quote: CroupierA lovely thought 2 weeks before I get on an 11 hour flight. Thanks for the reminder.
:D
11 hours, are you flying to N Korea or what..
But only 9hrs 50mins return leg.
Quote: rxwineI think flying is probably the same risk, multiplied. If you're lucky, there's a doctor on the jet and you don't need anything beyond basic treatment. Otherwise, that big ol' jet will be where you die.
Not entirely. the flight crew has first aid training, many planes carry an automated defibrillator, and the plane can land at the nearest airport (tough luck if you're flying over water, though).
But genuine, life-or-death this minute emergencies are very rare. You hang around the ICU and intermediate care wings of a hospital for a few weeks, you learn how rare they are even in critical patients.
Quote: Nareed
But genuine, life-or-death this minute emergencies are very rare.
Wrong. I watched ER when Clooney was on for years, they're a daily event.
Quote: EvenBob11 hours, are you flying to N Korea or what..
Delta has had a domestic flight from Atlanta to Honolulu at 9:40 for the last eight years.
Newark to Singapore via nonstop Singapore Airlines is 18:50 and is the longest scheduled flight currently in the world.
But they have been flying jets for 11 straight hours for over 4 decades. That should not seem that strange. The problem used to be 14 hours because the crews could not work longer than that.
Quote: pacomartinThe problem used to be 14 hours because the crews could not work longer than that.
My son flies the huge C-17 Globemaster in the AF, and he says once it gets airborne, he has to do nothing till they reach the destination. The modern auto pilots on these planes do absolutely everything. He says if he had to fly it manually, it would physically exhaust him and he wouldn't last 2 hours.
Quote: EvenBobMy son flies the huge C-17 Globemaster in the AF, and he says once it gets airborne, he has to do nothing till they reach the destination. The modern auto pilots on these planes do absolutely everything. He says if he had to fly it manually, it would physically exhaust him and he wouldn't last 2 hours.
I dont think paco was referring to the pilots, but to the Cabin Crew. Im guessing due to Union rules or some form of working time directive.
Quote: CroupierI dont think paco was referring to the pilots, but to the Cabin Crew. Im guessing due to Union rules or some form of working time directive.
There are rules for the pilots. They do have to supervise the autopilot, keep track of their course, watch out for changes in the weather, etc etc. On long flights, many airlines have two piloting crews on board.
No certificate holder conducting flag operations may schedule a pilot to fly, in an airplane that has a crew of two pilots and at least one additional flight crewmember, for a total of more than 12 hours during any 24 consecutive hours.
I think the 14 hours comes because they have a mandatory hour of prep time before and after the flight.
They get around the regulation by having 3 pilots, and they have some suitable rest quarters on the plane.
Each certificate holder conducting flag operations shall schedule its flight hours to provide adequate rest periods on the ground for each pilot who is away from his base and who is a pilot on an airplane that has a crew of three or more pilots and an additional flight crewmember. It shall also provide adequate sleeping quarters on the airplane whenever a pilot is scheduled to fly more than 12 hours during any 24 consecutive hours.
As I understand it they are under similar obligations for the crew. The ultra long haul flights are expensive to operate.
Its known as contemptuous complacency. Computers doing the flying, thousands of minute adjustments, ultra reliability of systems with ultra reliable redundant backups ... and then you get something like AF447 Paris de Rio. In attempting to deviate around a major storm cell they happen to fly into a cloud of freezing rain, the pitot tubes ice over and start giving erroneous data, the computers process that data adjusting pitch and throttle accordingly, then the computers decide the data is unreliable and dump the plane into Alternate Law Mode 1 wherein most computer protections are lost and the pilots must fly the aircraft. Pilots these days only have experience pushing buttons on a computer's keypad. They've never actually flown the plane before. They were at 35,000 feet and erroneous speed data induced them to add power, they immediately shot up to 38,000 feet and increased pitch angle to over ten degrees apparently entering a deep stall riding it all the way down with very little forward motion. A student pilot on his third lesson learns to lower the nose immediately and add power immediately. The pilots were trained for stall taking place when they were low and slow, never for stalls while high and fast. The pilots just didn't realize that in Alternate Law THEY had to trim the plane, the computer would no longer do it.Quote: EvenBobMy son flies the huge C-17 Globemaster in the AF, and he says once it gets airborne, he has to do nothing till they reach the destination. The modern auto pilots on these planes do absolutely everything. He says if he had to fly it manually, it would physically exhaust him and he wouldn't last 2 hours.
>nothing to do till they reach the destination...
That is why Qantas used to insist that their pilots work out their positions with pencil and paper rather than push the button to get the information displayed electronically. It kept the pilot mentally in the loop.
Quote: EvenBobWhen I started going to Vegas in the mid 70's, I only went for the gambling. Nobody could conceive that in 20 years casinos would be opening all over the country. Now we can gamble almost anywhere, Vegas needs all it can get to make people want to go there. 3 new casinos have opened in my state an hour or less from where I live, in the last 4 years, and all of them are making tons of money. Vegas is becoming less and less a destination for me and thousands of others.
So Vegas has gone from "Gamblers" to "Visitors" and in transitioning from gamblers to visitors who do anything (clubs, shows, restaurants, buffets, movies, bowling, ... and oh yeah, maybe even some gambling (ie, play some slots)) Vegas has become just some hot, dry, windy place in the Mojave desert that has a reputation as a playground. Tons of money is being made by newly opened casinos in other states because no one has to trek to Vegas on lengthy flights or even lengthier strip searches.
So what does Vegas feel the solution is? Build a ferris wheel out in the middle of the Mojave. It has nothing to do with gambling, it has nothing to do with hookers, it has nothing to do with booze, yet people who are quite content at those newly opened casinos are supposed to stop driving for one hour when they can fly for six hours to Vegas and ride a darned ferris wheel that don't even go fast!
It used to be San Francisco's Tenderloin for "Screwed, Blewed and Tattooed", then it became Las Vegas for Craps, Booze, Broads and Benny's Chilli. Now it seems to be what a computer networking guru would term Distributed Processing. The gambling is all over the country and often linked to a variety of other diversions as well but somehow Las Vegas thinks that Las Vegas will remain the central hub because only Las Vegas has a darned anemic Ferris wheel near the flight path of its airport.
"You never know how a kiss can feel till you're stopped at the top of a Ferris wheel" was a line from a song from the early sixties. I don't even know if the songwriter ever rode no darned Ferris wheel, but I sure know ain't nobody gonna hop on a plane to Vegas for a Ferris wheel. Besides everyone knows that no hooker is going to do any kissy kissy stuff unless you're paying for a Girl Friend Experience and why on earth would someone want that at the tops of glass bubbled Ferris wheel?
Quote: FleaStiffIt kept the pilot mentally in the loop.
Well, he has a different job coming in the fall. For 9 months he'll be flying combat missions in Afghanistan in a 4 man prop plane. We can hardly wait..
Quote: FleaStiffVegas has become just some hot, dry, windy place in the Mojave desert that has a reputation as a playground. Tons of money is being made by newly opened casinos in other states because no one has to trek to Vegas on lengthy flights or even lengthier strip searches.
Well, yeah. Ever have a casino open 15min from a big city that has no other casinos? That happened here 14 weeks ago. The freeway was closed down. Hundreds were turned away the first two weeks. You still can't get near the place on weekends. Vegas is now the Old Lady of gambling. Most of your customers are from SoCal, and if they ever get 'real' casino gambling there, its done in Vegas. I dearly love Las Vegas, but nothing lasts forever. Vegas has gone from superpower status, to being quaint. Milk it while they can..
Quote: EvenBobWell, he has a different job coming in the fall. For 9 months he'll be flying combat missions in Afghanistan in a 4 man prop plane. We can hardly wait..
Our prayers are with him. I know you are very proud of him.
I've had my son and daughter both in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't really put it in words what I felt while they were there. Multiple tours and not even a scratch. Both are out now and my wife and I sleep much better.
Quote: timberjimOur prayers are with him. I know you are very proud of him.
I've had my son and daughter both in Iraq and Afghanistan. I can't really put it in words what I felt while they were there. Multiple tours and not even a scratch. Both are out now and my wife and I sleep much better.
He's been in Iraq twice, and all over the Mid East, but its safe flying the huge C-17 in and out of bases. Now that he's a major, he'll be commanding a recon plane full of electronic gear that goes into combat areas and lets the ground know whats happening in real time. For awhile, 7-8 years ago, he hauled around President Bush's vehicles and SS men in the C-17 whenever Bush left the country. Most people are unaware of all the junk a president has to take with him when he makes a trip. Hazmat vehicle, armored limo, helicopter, and about 25 SS agents. He'll be in Afghanistan for 9 months and he just got married in Ap. His wife isn't thrilled.
Quote: EvenBobWell, yeah. Ever have a casino open 15min from a big city that has no other casinos? That happened here 14 weeks ago. The freeway was closed down. Hundreds were turned away the first two weeks. You still can't get near the place on weekends. Vegas is now the Old Lady of gambling. Most of your customers are from SoCal, and if they ever get 'real' casino gambling there, its done in Vegas. I dearly love Las Vegas, but nothing lasts forever. Vegas has gone from superpower status, to being quaint. Milk it while they can..
Yeah, Vegas no longer has a unique selling point that's as all pervasive as it once was. I still go there, but I suspect there's going to be a point soon when the critical mass of casino's/entertainments/food will fall and it'll be better to spend my tourism dollar elsewhere. The thing is, casinos outside of Vegas are just not half as fun, and being able to hop between means you get a variety of experiences AND they try and compete for you, even at a basic level.
