Vegas vs Broadway

Broadway ticket sales peaked in the 2006-2007 season, but ticket prices have elevated over the last few years and now average $85.79 apiece. In the season just concluded they have finally broken $1 billion in ticket sales for a year.

The recession seems to have had little or no effect on Broadway. There was a drop 20 years ago, and another one after 9-11, but only the tiniest blip in this recession.

Broadway ticket sales are dominated by women, with women buying almost twice as many tickets as men.

Why is broadway so unaffected by the recession? A trip to Manhatten where a stay in an econo-lodge can cost $200 per night and food prices are very high can be more exspensive than a trip to Vegas.

Quote: pacomartin

Broadway ticket prices now average $85.79 apiece.

Wow!! Can you imagine an 85.00 minimum Craps Table or Blackjack Table?

Quote: pacomartin

Why is broadway so unaffected by the recession? A trip to Manhatten where a stay in an econo-lodge can cost $200 per night and food prices are very high can be more exspensive than a trip to Vegas.

A Broadway show is still pretty much a unique experience (the Vegas versions are poor imitations). Plus, you get to experience NYC before and after the show.

Also, the whole experience is somewhat of a luxury good, and such goods aren't much affected by recessions.

Quote: mkl654321

A Broadway show is still pretty much a unique experience (the Vegas versions are poor imitations). Plus, you get to experience NYC before and after the show.

Also, the whole experience is somewhat of a luxury good, and such goods aren't much affected by recessions.

Please provide evidence of those assertions or at the very least, evidence that you've ever BEEN to NYC.

Quote: FleaStiff

Wow!! Can you imagine an 85.00 minimum Craps Table or Blackjack Table?

Eh... that's $85.79 over two or more hours, not $85.79 over however many minutes it is for one pass line bet.

Of course, the expected loss for a $5 pass line bet is (I imagine) less than $85.79 over two hours, so I guess craps still has a Broadway ticket price show beat in that respect.

You would think luxury spending would be the first to be cut in hard times. This wasn't exactly a choice but I would speculate the reason Broadway ticket sales haven't been hurt badly is that the cost is pretty small compared to the total expense of going to NYC in the first place. I'm not Mr. New York, but it seems to me that seeing a Broadway show is a major part of the experience for the tourist. I remember my first trip there was with my dad when I was 18. He treated me to A Chorus Line matinee.

You might ask did tourism in general to NYC drop? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't. Yes, some NYC vacations may have been cancelled, but others cancelled a trip to Europe and did New York instead.

My apologies in advance for the brief change of topic, but does anyone know what the Waverly is in NYC?

I went to NYC about 6-7 years ago and for the good shows you had to buy a month in advance... so hasn't demand always been significantly higher than the supply when it comes to Broadway? That would explain why it hasn't slowed down. I mean and it is NYC.

I saw "Cats" and a play with Tommy Tune and Twiggy whose title escapes me, back when I visited NYC in 85 or thereabouts. My dad used to travel twice a year there on business. He always saw at least one play, almost always a musical.

Anyway, perhaps lots of people in the US, Canada and Latin America who'd have gone to Europe cut back to the extent of going to NYC. Then, too, what's the ratio of locals vs tourists at theaters? Finally NYC is within a realtively short distance from other large popualtion centers.

Quote: Wizard

You would think luxury spending would be the first to be cut in hard times. This wasn't exactly a choice but I would speculate the reason Broadway ticket sales haven't been hurt badly is that the cost is pretty small compared to the total expense of going to NYC in the first place. I'm not Mr. New York, but it seems to me that seeing a Broadway show is a major part of the experience for the tourist. I remember my first trip there was with my dad when I was 18. He treated me to A Chorus Line matinee.

You might ask did tourism in general to NYC drop? I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if it didn't. Yes, some NYC vacations may have been cancelled, but others cancelled a trip to Europe and did New York instead.

My apologies in advance for the brief change of topic, but does anyone know what the Waverly is in NYC?

Waverly is nice. Good food, not cheap. Nothing fancy just great pub food.
It is a good place to be seen or to see. Get's a good celeb crowd.

Quote: Wizard

My apologies in advance for the brief change of topic, but does anyone know what the Waverly is in NYC?

It is the Waverly Inn in the West Village, an old well established casual eatery. Nowhere near broadway.


You may be correct, that going to a broadway show is such an ingrained part of the experience of visiting New York that people still go despite the increase in ticket prices. I emphasize that the number of tickets sold is down 3.4% but the average ticket price went up 12.46% in the last three seasons.

It may be the same phenomena for the wealthy that permitted movie ticket prices to go up 15.5% in the last three years. People don't cut back on entertainment as much.

I still can't believe the prices. I mean the musical version of Elf (based on the 2003 Christmas movie starring Will Ferrel and James Caan) is selling premium tickets (choicest seats) for $300 apiece ($350 over the holidays). Even the nosebleed seats in the last two rows of the mezzanine are $37 apiece.

I mean it was a cute Christmas movie, but go and buy the DVD for $5 bucks and make popcorn and laugh at home. If you are going to pay those kind of prices I would expect something a little more grandiose.

Quote: Wavy70

Waverly is nice. Good food, not cheap. Nothing fancy just great pub food.
It is a good place to be seen or to see. Get's a good celeb crowd.

Quote: pacomartin

It is the Waverly Inn in the West Village, an old well established casual eatery. Nowhere near broadway.

Thanks guys. One more mystery resolved, about 8,374 to go.

I disagree with the OP's assertion that Broadway is doing well. See the Broadway League publication here.

Attendance has dropped consecutively for the past 3 years but only by 4 percent. Average price per ticket is up. But the statistic for measuring has changed for 2009/2010 season where they count gross instead of net. This allows them to record promotional attendances at a higher price. Playing weeks dropped by 6 percent in the last year. Broadway plays are closing down due to poor attendance.

For me, I try to attend one show a year. I've seen the Rockettes, Phantom of the Opera, and South Pacific recently, all excellent productions. The experience is fairly unique but not much different than the experience at a Broadway show (in my opinion). New York is fantastic before and after the show, but so is Vegas. I try to take in the Yankees, Mets, or Rangers while I am there, and I've seen Letterman about 5 times, Conan, and Jon Stewart. There's the Metropolitan Museum of Art, Central Park, and the Intrepid exhibits to take in. The tree at Rockerfeller Center is up at this time of year, and I'm probably going to head into NYC in a couple of weeks to take in the sights.

I subscribe to Playbill and use the free membership to get my tickets at about 40 percent off.

I have seen several shows on Broadway and many more in other locations. The whole Broadway experience is something special compared to seeing a show in a place like Washington, DC. The actors are typically a bit better, the sets more elaborate, and the production bigger than touring companies. It may not always be the case, but it has been in each of experiences with similar shows.

To me, that seems like it would translate in to a bit less of a drop than some other areas in a bad economy. The people going to shows generally had more disposable income to start with; now they likely have less and need to be more judicious about how it is spent. If I lived within a few hour drive of NYC, it would remain at the top of my list for places to go for a "quick" luxury weekend. It is expensive, but there is no flight expense involved and you can get decent deals on some things.

Quote: boymimbo

I disagree with the OP's assertion that Broadway is doing well. See the Broadway League publication here.

Attendance has dropped consecutively for the past 3 years but only by 4 percent. Average price per ticket is up. But the statistic for measuring has changed for 2009/2010 season where they count gross instead of net. This allows them to record promotional attendances at a higher price.

I think the change in the statistic is relatively meaningless in the overall scheme. The last season with the record ticket prices was considered a boom. See this article in Playbill. The average ticket price is what counts, and they haven't changed how they measure that statistic.

I am a little confused what "Gross Gross" means.

Playbill article on the billion dollar season

Quick comparison of numbers for 2009:
NYC 37 million domestic visitors is roughly comparable to Clark county
NYC 8.6 million international visitors (I can't find the Nevada statistics but it is obviously much lower)
NYC $28.2 billion in visitor spending (Casinos in Clark County net revenue $19.2 billion which includes comps. I don't know what is spent outside of casinos)
NYC 80,899 hotel rooms, average daily rate of in 2009 was $238, down from $312 in 2008
Clark County 118,000 hotel rooms in casinos, 30,000 additional hotel rooms. Average Daily room rate $93 in 2009, down from $119 in 2008.

So if the average daily hotel room rate dropped $72 in one year in NYC, people may not notice an $8 jump in average broadway ticket prices.

The international visitors are probably less affected since in many cases their local currency was stronger compared to the US dollar.

Also, supposedly there is a hardcore group of broadway attendees that see 15 or more shows per year. Since this is more or less a lifestyle choice, they are probably fairly impervious to ticket prices. They may complain, but it won't stop them from going.

NYC has more of the day tripping tourist than Clark County. I noticed that many shows have moved their evening performance on Tuesday and Thursday to 7PM (instead of the customary 8PM) to better accommodate the day tripper.

Times Square and the Vegas Strip are listed as the two largest of 25 biggest tourist attraction in the USA (Forbes magazine rating).
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1.Times Square, New York City, N.Y
More than 2,000 pedestrians traversing a block of 7th Avenue during a 15-minute weekday period.

2. The Las Vegas Strip, Nevada
Enticing over 31 million visitors,about 80 percent of the city’s total (39.2 million) visitors

3. National Mall and Memorial Parks, Washington, D.C.

4. Faneuil Hall Marketplace, Boston, MA
Faneuil Hall Marketplace, which gets 20 million visitors

5. Disney World’s Magic Kingdom, Lake Buena Vista, FL
[17.1 million] in visitation in 2007

6. Disneyland Park, Anaheim, CA
Visited by more than 515 million guests since it opened.

7. Fisherman’s Wharf/Golden Gate National Recreation Area, San Francisco, CA

8. Niagara Falls, N.Y.

9. Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Tenn./N.C.

10. Navy Pier, Chicago, IL
With 8.6 million visitors

11. Lake Mead National Recreation Area, Ariz./Nev.

12. Universal Studios Orlando/Islands of Adventure at Universal Orlando, FL

13. SeaWorld Florida, Orlando, FL

14. San Antonio River Walk, Texas

15. Temple Square, Salt Lake City, UT

16. Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area, Penn./N.J.

17. Universal Studios,Hollywood, CA

18. Metropolitan Museum, New York, N.Y.
Four and a half million visitors came to peruse some of the world’s greatest art collections.

19. Waikiki Beach, Oahu, Hawaii
Upwards of 4.5 million sunbathers try to relax on its sands each year.

20. Grand Canyon, AZ

21. Busch Gardens Africa, Tampa Bay, FL

22. Cape Cod National Seashore, MA

23. SeaWorld San Diego, San Diego, CA

24. American Museum of Natural History, NY

25. Atlantic City Boardwalk, New Jersey