Five reported dead in northeast Las Vegas police ambush
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60 members have voted
Quote: WizardYes, and less than others.
This article has a map of homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 population. For example, here is where some countries fit it:
Canada: 0.01 to 1
United Stated: 2 to 5
Brazil: 12 to 70
In Switzerland, almost every adult male is legally required to carry a gun.
Yet, they have no gun crime.
So, is it the people or the lack of gun regulations?
The distance between Detroit and Windsor, Ontario is 0.65 miles.
The homicide rate in Detroit is 47.5 per 100,000.
The murder rate in Windsor is 0.3 per 100,000.
Both Cities have strict gun control laws.
What could account for this disparity?
Quote: BeardgoatSorry face, I dont need an ongoing debate and further explanation to recognize that being giddy at the murder of two innocent people is sick and disgusting.
There's certainly no apology needed. I agreed with you, as did most others.
The question is what to do about it, and I've never been one to make quick decisions. I apologize to you if my delay causes you or others hardship.
Quote: Tanko
In Switzerland, almost every adult male is legally required to carry a gun.
Utter Bullshit. Where did you get that from?
Quote: Tanko
Yet, they have no gun crime.
Indeed, in Switzerland we have the loosest gun laws in Euorpe.
Gun deaths in Switzerland 2012: 222 (population: 7 million)
Gun deaths in Germany (strict gun laws) 2013: 54 (population: 80 million)
Plus, the gun regulations we have in Switzerland would still make the American gun nut cringe and call for revolution. Every gun in Switzerland must be registered! Yes we love guns, but we still have some common sense.
Quote: rudeboyoiI never promoted the killing of policemen. I simply expressed my schadenfreude of their slaying.
I've been asked to take a stand on this and other similar comments made by rudeboyoi. Personally, I find this comment deplorable. The police perform a vital service to society. Are there bad apples among them? Sure. Just like any group. I could see how Rudeboyoi might have an extreme position on the matter. Keep in mind he wrote the article Gambling in Jail. My own brother might share his opinion. He was a victim of brutality by the Long Beach Police Department not to mention many other incidents of alleged harassment. However, I would file that under bad apples.
I personally oppose wishing violence or death on any group. However, as much as I may detest what some might call "hate speech," there is at this time no specific rule against it on this forum. If there were, where would I draw the line? What about the "Chinaman" comment, was that hateful? I'm afraid if I did set some kind of policy then many forum members would make a game out of how close could they come to crossing the line without getting banned, only leading to more undesirable behavior.
To make a long story short, I will not be banning Rudeboioi, because he hasn't broken any rules. I will politely ask him to give it a rest. You've made your point; no need to keep belaboring it.
Quote: WizardI've been asked to take a stand on this and other similar comments made by rudeboyoi. Personally, I find this comment deplorable. The police perform a vital service to society. Are there bad apples among them? Sure. Just like any group. I could see how Rudeboyoi might have an extreme position on the matter. Keep in mind he wrote the article Gambling in Jail. My own brother might share his opinion. He was a victim of brutality by the Long Beach Police Department not to mention many other incidents of alleged harassment. However, I would file that under bad apples.
I personally oppose wishing violence or death on any group. However, as much as I may detest what some might call "hate speech," there is at this time no specific rule against it on this forum. If there were, where would I draw the line? What about the "Chinaman" comment, was that hateful? I'm afraid if I did set some kind of policy then many forum members would make a game out of how close could they come to crossing the line without getting banned, only leading to more undesirable behavior.
To make a long story short, I will not be banning Rudeboioi, because he hasn't broken any rules. I will politely ask him to give it a rest. You've made your point; no need to keep belaboring it.
Understood. Rant over.
Quote: FleaStiffHe should have just shot rather than "confronted". Perhaps he didn't know he had the right to simply shoot to kill in that situation.
I'm not so sure about that. He wouldn't have known about the pizza incident. Had he assumed they were there to do an armed robbery, lethal force to stop it would not have been authorized under Nevada law. We would need to know more about the actual scene to make that judgment. The Nevada law says that lethal force is only justified if you or an innocent party is in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
Quote: WizardI'm not so sure about that. He wouldn't have known about the pizza incident. Had he assumed they were there to do an armed robbery, lethal force to stop it would not have been authorized under Nevada law. We would need to know more about the actual scene to make that judgment. The Nevada law says that lethal force is only justified if you or an innocent party is in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
If someone is brandishing a firearm in a menacing way, aren't they considered to be a danger to any innocent party in the area? I guess if the firearm were holstered or held at the side and pointed at the ground, there may be a difference...but if it is out, waved at folks, and people are in danger, it may be time to stop asking questions...
Quote: WizardI'm not so sure about that. He wouldn't have known about the pizza incident. Had he assumed they were there to do an armed robbery, lethal force to stop it would not have been authorized under Nevada law. We would need to know more about the actual scene to make that judgment. The Nevada law says that lethal force is only justified if you or an innocent party is in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
If someone is brandishing a firearm in a menacing way, aren't they considered to be a danger to any innocent party in the area? I guess if the firearm were holstered or held at the side and pointed at the ground, there may be a difference...but if it is out, waved at folks, and people are in danger, it may be time to stop asking questions...
Is the danger unavoidable? Is the perp in contact range with you or any other person?
Will the danger cause death or grave bodily harm?
Is the target(s) an innocent?
If yes to the above, you shoot him dead.
If you carry a weapon, you should read these scenarios often and play Monday morning quarterback. You should envision what you would do. The details surrounding gun play will never be the same, you can never prepare for every conceivable scenario. But the time for asking questions is now, not when you're seconds away from receiving 180grains to the brain piece.
Trust me. The first thing to go out the window is rational thought. Do your thinking now. When the time comes, all you can do is react.
Quote: IbeatyouracesDemographics.
Economics.
Quote: IbeatyouracesNo. If you take the same residents of Detroit and move them to Windsor and give them the Windsor economy, they won't change. Detroit is filth and they just don't care.
Genius! I see it now: A "Trading Places" & "Beverly Hills Cop" crossover with Eddy Murphy playing all the parts!
But seriously, move them over there, give them the infrastructure, education & jobs and watch the homicide rate drop faster than Amy Wong on a banana peel. (hooray for obscure references)
Quote: IbeatyouracesNo. If you take the same residents of Detroit and move them to Windsor and give them the Windsor economy, they won't change. Detroit is filth and they just don't care.
I would guess that may well be to the economics of their upbringing (which includes demographic factors like education). Or is there another particular demographic characteristic you are proposing is the reason why Detroit has more gun crime than Windsor?
Not so sure? How are your feelings about "tried by twelve" versus "carried by six". NOW is the time and place to debate this because if you are ever in the situation, you darn well better have made up your mind!Quote: WizardI'm not so sure about that.
Such imminent danger is present if there is a felony being committed and any participant in that felony is displaying a firearm.Quote: WizardThe Nevada law says that lethal force is only justified if you or an innocent party is in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
Quote: FleaStiffVideo not found.
Works for me
Quote: bbbbccccHere is a video of the guy talking at the Bundy Ranch. http://gawker.com/watch-video-of-las-vegas-killer-speaking-at-bundy-ranch-1588231362
Imagine that exact same quote being said by a black youth in a hoodie in Detroit. Do you think it would have been ignored as well?
Quote: bbbbccccHere is a video of the guy talking at the Bundy Ranch. http://gawker.com/watch-video-of-las-vegas-killer-speaking-at-bundy-ranch-1588231362
Some of the Mesquite locals warned Fox News that Cliven Bundy was a whack job. They didn't take the advice and ran with the Bundy/Public Lands story for days. But they dropped Bundy like a hot potato over his racists statements and had to take it on the chin from Jon Stewart and the left jeering them over their stupidity. Leftie Harry Reid called Bundy's backers domestic terrorists. Fox News lambasted Reid for it. But those idiots Jarad Miller and his wife sure did make Harry look good. I watch a lot of Fox News. Let's see what they do with this story that the cop killers were Bundy backers. It wouldn't surprise me if they ignore it altogether.
My constant point of view is that if YOU are shocked, then YOU are the one with a problem. Your mind is limited by your emotions. Work on yourself, free yourself, dont try to silence the other.
If you dont like what someone says, then close your ears / eyes, or argue against his views. Dont attack the person, just the ideas.
This is the way the forum rules are set up, and that is alright.
I, for one, have a policy of never being shocked. By anything.
EDIT: I wont reply to outraged (or enthusiastic) reactions, so, as not to revive what has been asked to be closed.
Maybe I use the wrong English word. Same idea.Quote: mcallister3200Being shocked and offended are not the same thing.
(I would use "offended" only when I am being insulted.)
Quote: kubikulannPlease know that I am terribly appalled that some people want to shut someone up (or "nuke" him) just because he says something that they dont like / approve.
My constant point of view is that if YOU are shocked, then YOU are the one with a problem. Your mind is limited by your emotions. Work on yourself, free yourself, dont try to silence the other.
If you dont like what someone says, then close your ears / eyes, or argue against his views. Dont attack the person, just the ideas.
This is the way the forum rules are set up, and that is alright.
I, for one, have a policy of never being shocked. By anything.
EDIT: I wont reply to outraged (or enthusiastic) reactions, so, as not to revive what has been asked to be closed.
If you aren't going to reply to reactions, why bother presenting your opinion? That is like saying I'm going to punch you once but you can't punch me back because someone asked that there be no more bunching.
Shocked? I've heard it all. Outraged? You bet.
Quote: CanyoneroNope, two cheap racist shots don't make progressives sweat at all. Here are some other numbers:
Vermont: Population 700,00. Persons below poverty level: 11.6% 8 murders in 2012.
Detroit: Population 700,000. Persons below poverty level: 36.4% 411 murders in 2012.
The point is well taken that a reduction of poverty rates might be a good subsitute for strict gun control. But the right hates government support for the poor and redistribution of wealth even more than gun control, I suppose.
Facts are well known to have a liberal bias, so don't even try.
Keep sweating; it makes a good "subistute" for questioning the dogma of your party, which rewards every potential voter (including anchor babies) who possesses the "accomplishment" of having been squeezed out of his mothers vagina with free housing, food, education, a check, free heat, air conditioning, health care, defense lawyers, cell phone, etc.-until the country collapses from debt.
Congratulations though-"people" like you are winning. I have little doubt that in a generation the US will be a SLIGHTLY less violent, corrupt, bankrupt and economically stagnant version of Brazil or South Africa.
Congratulations... Some victory.
Quote: MrVWithout the police there would be widespread, unrelenting chaos, violence, and instability.
That's right. Because there was no such thing as peace or civilization before government organized, bureaucratic, para-military security forces were first created 200 years ago. Further, it is inconceivable that human rights and property can be secure unless we employ the socialist model to ensure that security. You have declared that innovation is impossible here so it must be so.
Come on. It's time for you to read Rothbard bro.
Quote: thecesspitEconomics.
Demographics.
The economy in Windsor isn't much better than in some of our worst cities.
Unemployment is 9.5%, and 14.9% of the population is low income.
Canada's Poorest
Unemployment in Windsor is higher than the high crime cities of New Orleans, Cleveland, Birmingham, and St. Louis.
Ten Deadliest
Quote: rudeboyoiPolice are the real criminals and scumbags.
Sadly, there is much truth in what you said, hey hey.
Quote: CanyoneroNope, two cheap racist shots don't make progressives sweat at all. Here are some other numbers:
Vermont: Population 700,00. Persons below poverty level: 11.6% 8 murders in 2012.
Detroit: Population 700,000. Persons below poverty level: 36.4% 411 murders in 2012.
The point is well taken that a reduction of poverty rates might be a good subsitute for strict gun control. But the right hates government support for the poor and redistribution of wealth even more than gun control, I suppose.
Facts are well known to have a liberal bias, so don't even try.
In America it is a FACT that blacks use 13.75$ worth of tax payer funded social services for every 1$ they pay in taxes, and non-White latinos are similarly parastic! So, how much more redistibution would you like? I've said it before and I will say it again, there are NO peaceful, non-violent solutions for America's problems, none, and people need to get that through their thick skulls, hey hey!
Quote: soxfanIn America it is a FACT that blacks use 13.75$ worth of tax payer funded social services for every 1$ they pay in taxes, and non-White latinos are similarly parastic! So, how much more redistibution would you like? I've said it before and I will say it again, there are NO peaceful, non-violent solutions for America's problems, none, and people need to get that through their thick skulls, hey hey!
Sounds like you're calling for genocide. Nice.
Quote: bbbbccccSounds like you're calling for genocide. Nice.
The Bell Curve is tolling for America! I'm calling for an end to the welfare state; no more rewarding low iq women for having on average six low iq children each. No more affirmative action, section, eight, ebt, obama phones, etc., period, hey hey!
Quote: soxfanThe Bell Curve is tolling for America! I'm calling for an end to the welfare state; no more rewarding low iq women for having on average six low iq children each. No more affirmative action, section, eight, ebt, obama phones, etc., period, hey hey!
You referred to particular races of people as parasites and said there are no peaceful, nonviolent solutions to America's problems. It's been awhile since I've read something so disgusting.
Quote: bbbbccccYou referred to particular races of people as parasites and said there are no peaceful, nonviolent solutions to America's problems. It's been awhile since I've read something so disgusting.
I stated FACTS! If you want to stick your head in the sand, please feel free to do so, hey hey.
Quote: soxfanI stated FACTS! If you want to stick your head in the sand, please feel free to do so, hey hey.
Sorry. I didn't know that this website had turned into Stormfront. I'll see myself out.
Quote: beachbumbabsThat's enough. Everybody take it down a notch or three with the hate, in both directions.
I don't agree with everything soxfan says and his delivery is far from perfect but it's unfortunate that simply listing a set of facts and saying "the government should not subsidize destructive life choices is considered hate.
And statement that soxfan is advocating genocide is probably the most racist thin I've read in a long time. It rests on the assumption that blacks are incapable of taking care of themselves. How else can you say that ending welfare will kill black folks?
Edit: I should add that I completely disagree with his statement that the only solution is a violent one. That is just crazy.
Quote: soxfanThe Bell Curve is tolling for America! I'm calling for an end to the welfare state; no more rewarding low iq women for having on average six low iq children each. No more affirmative action, section, eight, ebt, obama phones, etc., period, hey hey!
soxfan,
According to the US Census, the average number of children per household overall is 1.86. The average number of children per AFDC (welfare recipients) household is 1.9. Not 6. Right in there with the overall average. Support your "facts" with credible cites, or don't claim they're facts.
Or, better yet, since you've already said your piece, be done with it. Going back to the OP, hate speech is probably going to be found as a significant factor in this event, if the news reports are right. And your several posts in the last day are an example of why.
Quote: mickeycrimmSome of the Mesquite locals warned Fox News that Cliven Bundy was a whack job. They didn't take the advice and ran with the Bundy/Public Lands story for days. But they dropped Bundy like a hot potato over his racists statements and had to take it on the chin from Jon Stewart and the left jeering them over their stupidity. Leftie Harry Reid called Bundy's backers domestic terrorists. Fox News lambasted Reid for it. But those idiots Jarad Miller and his wife sure did make Harry look good. I watch a lot of Fox News. Let's see what they do with this story that the cop killers were Bundy backers. It wouldn't surprise me if they ignore it altogether.
Yeah, I made that point over on Diversity Tomorrow and got quickly whacked by the Beethoven/AZ/EvenBob tea party trio as not meaning anything. For me, the fact that the cop killers were Bundy backers will have the left drooling, just as much as FoxNews would be drooling if the killers were hippy Obama Supporters.
Quote: boymimboYeah, I made that point over on Diversity Tomorrow and got quickly whacked by the Beethoven/AZ/EvenBob tea party trio as not meaning anything. For me, the fact that the cop killers were Bundy backers will have the left drooling, just as much as FoxNews would be drooling if the killers were hippy Obama Supporters.
And therein lies the true tragedy. There will never be a true solution if every problem is used primarily as political weaponry. And every single one is.
Fix it? Pfft. We need to find someone to blame!
Quote: beachbumbabssoxfan,
According to the US Census, the average number of children per household overall is 1.86. The average number of children per AFDC (welfare recipients) household is 1.9. Not 6. Right in there with the overall average. Support your "facts" with credible cites, or don't claim they're facts.
Or, better yet, since you've already said your piece, be done with it. Going back to the OP, hate speech is probably going to be found as a significant factor in this event, if the news reports are right. And your several posts in the last day are an example of why.
The difference between Detroit and Windsor is abject poverty, lack of education, hopelessness, gangs, and heavy drug use on one side, where as on the other side there is welfare, education, community, lack of gangs, and low-to-moderate drug use on the other. Free health care helps. Low cost housing and different forms of welfare also helps. The population density of Windsor is also alot lower than Detroit also leads to less "big-city" problems. And in Windsor, you didn't have a mass exodus of people from downtown as its industry collapsed. And yes, that all points, unfortunately, to "demographics".
The only Canadian city that seems to have inner city problems is Vancouver, in particular, the downtown East Side. Montreal and Toronto also have its problem neighborhoods. Even downtown St. Catharines can be a bit sketchy at night.
Quote: FaceAnd therein lies the true tragedy. There will never be a true solution if every problem is used primarily as political weaponry. And every single one is.
Fix it? Pfft. We need to find someone to blame!
Unfortunately, Face, I feel that there are too many factors to fix the problem. Gun violence will always be very high because of the 2nd Amendment and the widespread availability of guns. I also feel that the "inequities of society" are a factor. I also always get a sense of anxiety from Americans in general -- maybe from the media, maybe leftovers from 9/11, I dunno.
Americans have got to learn to relax and smoke a bunch of weed (I don't advocate that, personally). I wonder what the crime rate of Colorado will look like in a couple of years...
Quote: FaceAnd therein lies the true tragedy. There will never be a true solution if every problem is used primarily as political weaponry. And every single one is.
Fix it? Pfft. We need to find someone to blame!
And that is real tragedy of today. Solutions can never happen as no one tells the truth any more, just their coloured version. I guess we get what we asked for. Our kids have been told for years now to go for the top and never accept 2nd place. Of course not everyone can be 1st so now it must be somebodies fault. Just pick a colour, pick a political leaning, pick a foreign country it must be somebodies fault.
Quote: mcallister3200Given the direction this thread took, Americans are just angry people should be running away with it.
See, that's what I don't get. This country is blessed, truly, and yet people are SO angry, frustrated, hateful, outraged, nasty. Where does that dissatisfaction come from? I think it must be the advertising, conspicuous consumption, constant teaching that there's no such thing as "enough" that creates an atmosphere of discontent and intolerance. I don't know where else to look. Death of the soul by a thousand paper cuts of inadequacy.
"Good guy with a gun" is, of course, the police, but a bad guy with a gun can kill dozens before a policeman shows up and take hostage dozens more before they commit suicide-by-cop. I think this was one of the founders' principals in formulating the Second Amendment. The vernacular was different, but basically, the idea that first responders take a finite amount of time to respond holds across the centuries.
The "get rid of guns so the bad guys can't get any" argument is insane. Guns can't be dis-invented, and if there are laws in place ... well, part of what makes a bad guy "bad" is that he breaks laws. Believing that guns can be dis-invented is insane. Believing laws will keep bad guys from being bad is insane.
The "limit automatic weapons and ammunition" argument is insane for roughly the same reason.
Quoting statistics from other cultures - the "Switzerland has tough gun laws and low murder rate" argument - is also insane. To think that cultures can be transplanted from one nation to the next simply does not reflect an understanding of both cultures and human nature.
To me, this is really one of the easy ones. Good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns all the time, only we don't hear about it for reasons unknown. But if I had to guess, I would say that the reasons we don't hear about it include a) fewer deaths = less newsworthy, and b) it doesn't fit a political narrative the media wishes to advance.
I know that b) introduces larger issues to the topic, but any news outlet that publishes a fake memo to bring down George Bush and ignores a real memo that would badly damage Obama cannot possibly be given any benefit of the doubt when it comes to partisan politics.
My $0.02.
