The Other Side of Vegas

The casino tipping point thread got me thinking about Las Vegas' future survival.

The long answer is that yesterday my boss told me he's going to Vegas with his wife and 12 year old daughter, then asked me to help him draw a list of what the kid can do. It turns out there's a lot of stuff out there that's not even remotely realted to gambling.

Aside from children specific places like Excalibur, there are rides, exhibits, pools, museums and shows that can be enjoyed. Some are free, more are not. Thing is that while Vegas is not a "family" destination, and hopefuly never will be, you can do a lot mroe than just gamble.

In fact for my first trip gambling was one of many things I wanted to see or do. For that matter it still is, though it has grown in importance, and I admit if I dind't want to gamble I'd probably spend my vacation elsewhere.

So sure, you can gamble in many more places than just Vegas, but what else is there at those other places?

Quote: Nareed

So sure, you can gamble in many more places than just Vegas, but what else is there at those other places?

Amusement parks, bowling, movies, ... and a great many things that if not "at those other places" are nearby. A teen arcade may be inside a casino or half way across town.

I see lots of kids in Vegas, but I don't think it's a place to take a 12 year old on a vacation. I love Vegas, but I'll never take my daughter there.

For me, Las Vegas is an adult destination. The fact is that the hotels all have gambling in them and it is their major activity. You walk into the check in, and invariably, the path to your room is the casino. You walk the streets of Vegas and you are handed the cards offering escort services.

Gambling is an activity to be enjoyed responsibly, like alcohol. I don't want to expose my child to a casino until she's old enough to understand the entertainment value and cost involved and can be responsible.

That said, there are roller coasters, a few shows, and swimming pools to enjoy on the strip. At the West Edmonton Mall (north America's largest mall), there is a casino, arcade, shooting range, amusement park, water park, cinemas, bowling alleys, and stores in the same enclosure. The Red Rock casino in Vegas has movie theatres and a bowling alley attached to it. Atlantic City has the boardwalk and the Ocean.

But I would rather take my kid to a resort where gambling was not offered. Disney comes to mind.

Mind you, my 12 year old daughter is old enough to have opinions on gambling (she thinks it is a waste of money and time, yet she has no problems beating her older brothers at Hold'em).

Quote: FleaStiff

Amusement parks, bowling, movies, ... and a great many things that if not "at those other places" are nearby. A teen arcade may be inside a casino or half way across town.

I failed to make my point. Let's try again.

Vegas has a great many rather unusual entertainment options you don't find anywhere else, at least not all bunched together in a relatively small space. There are roller coasters, art galleries, museums, botanical gardens, small zoos (sort of), and whatever you call the more extremely themed hotels (I like just walking around Luxor, Venetian, Paris and Caesars looking at the architecture and ornaments). Plus gambling and the shows, not to mention shopping malls galore. And the scale of things is just diferent from what you find almost everywhere else.

What I'm saying is that casinos or no casinos, Vegas is in a class by itself.

Amusement parks, bowling allies and movie theaters are found in every sizable city in the world.

A good comparison would be Disneyland. To call it an amusement park, or a theme park, misses the point. Disneyland defines its own class, and the only other places that come close to it are the other parks Disney has built (Disneyworld, EPCOT, MGM, Tokyo Disney, etc); maybe also Universal Studios. But not Six Flags.

I do a lot more in vegas than just gamble. I suppose many of the people who post here do as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if many of you, or even most of you, go to Vegas only for the casinos. I know people like that, too.

Quote: Nareed

I failed to make my point. Let's try again.

Vegas has a great many rather unusual entertainment options you don't find anywhere else, at least not all bunched together in a relatively small space. There are roller coasters, art galleries, museums, botanical gardens, small zoos (sort of), and whatever you call the more extremely themed hotels (I like just walking around Luxor, Venetian, Paris and Caesars looking at the architecture and ornaments). Plus gambling and the shows, not to mention shopping malls galore. And the scale of things is just diferent from what you find almost everywhere else.

What I'm saying is that casinos or no casinos, Vegas is in a class by itself.

Amusement parks, bowling allies and movie theaters are found in every sizable city in the world.

A good comparison would be Disneyland. To call it an amusement park, or a theme park, misses the point. Disneyland defines its own class, and the only other places that come close to it are the other parks Disney has built (Disneyworld, EPCOT, MGM, Tokyo Disney, etc); maybe also Universal Studios. But not Six Flags.

I do a lot more in vegas than just gamble. I suppose many of the people who post here do as well. But I wouldn't be surprised if many of you, or even most of you, go to Vegas only for the casinos. I know people like that, too.

I was at Disney'land' last summer, and it is little more than just another theme park. Disneyworld on the other hand is something absolutely into a class of itself and is absolutely phenomenal.

Vegas' scale is absolutely grandiose. Every casino on the strip has a gimmick and you are absolutely right, Vegas is in a class by itself. But gambling far outclasses every single activity on the strip. If you want to go on roller coasters, I drive 40 minutes and go to Canada's Wonderland -- a single roller coaster in the NYNY or the thrill rides on the top of the Stratosphere doesn't cut it. If I want to see an art gallery, I go to New York, Chicago, or Washington. The Bellagio's small collection doesn't cut it. If I want to go to the zoo, I don't marvel at the kitties in the MGM Grand -- I make the 30 minute drive to the Toronto Zoo. And Bellagio's botanical gardens are marvelous but it takes you 5 minutes to walk through the entire thing.

My point is that Vegas does offer all of these things on the strip, and movie theatres and arcades too, but that these are just very minor diversions to the obvious attraction -- gambling. But the Vegas strip excels in other areas too -- I can't think of any other area (with the exception of Manhattan) that compares to Vegas in the combination of food, shows, shopping, and nightlife. The strip also offers a close proximity to the airport, fantastic pools, great weather, and spas. When you add the opportunity to win it all back with gambling (or lose more), nothing beats Vegas as an adult tourist destination.

But because all of this centers around the activity of gambling, Vegas isn't somewhere I would take my children.

Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age - 50.

I think I would absolutely go out of my mind with boredom if I was a teenager in Vegas, wondering what to do. Oh, sure there are pools and arcades and such, but really, what is there to do, while the 'rants are out gambling?

Heck, even now, as a relatively mature adult, I sometimes get bored.

If my wife drags me to the botanical gardens in Belagio just one more time, there gonna be trouble!

Stand aroung the Rio to watch the masquerade show in the sky, hoping to score some cheap beads? Yawn.

That's why my last trip, as well as my trip coming in September I'm gonna be alone (not to mention that both involve a convention).


For those reasons, I'm happy there was that hidden gems thread, as well as the comments here.

I've already added the Pinball Museum and Atomic Testing Museum to my list for this year - not to mention the Wiz Coffee meet!

By the way - I love Disneyworld, but hate going there with kids.

My wife and I don't have any kids, but we went a couple years ago with one of her neices. She was around 10. And bored.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

I've already added the Pinball Museum and Atomic Testing Museum to my list for this year - not to mention the Wiz Coffee meet!

I wonder if a casino could be persuaded to put the Wizard on exhibit? ;)

Seriously, yes, you can get tired of everything, or used to anything, which is pretty much the same thing. My first time in Vegas I must have stood gawking at the scenery for hours. The second time I wasn't so impressed.

BTW, my point isn't that vegas is a good vacation spot for a 12 year old, only that my boss got me thinking of all the non-gambling activities available.

Anwyay, the point is that Vegas is more than a mere gambling destination. And that is what will likely keep vegas in business, even if gambling's legalized all over the world and even if 99% of the world's popualtion live within driving distance of a casino.

it is a challange to keep youngsters occupied in vegas. when my daughters where there during the basketball tournament the coaches would usually take them to the malls for shopping. i don't know how they do it but most teenage girls can spend hours at the mall. but then my daughter wonders how we can spend hours in the casino.

for younger kids, the wet n wild was a great place for them, which is why i think they should bring that back. i know it would only be open during the warmer months but when i was there it was crazy with kids who, again, could spend hours there.

what i can't understand is why anyone would bring kids who are stroller age. unless the adults are only expecting to sightsee, at that age the kids are definitely just an anchor as they surely cannot appreciate anything thats going on.

.

My boss returned from vegas a few days ago. Talking about his trip, it came up neither he nor his wife gambled at all in the five days they spent there. I find that very hard to believe, even if they wasted a day at the Grand Canyon. But I also have no reason to doubt him.

isn't there some sort of law requiring all adult vistors to Vegas gamble? :P

I still say that Vegas is a lousy place to bring kids to visit, and for kids to live. However, if the kids are fairly strong, I have always liked the Black Canyon kayak trip, that Lisa wrote about. There are also pontoon boats that do the same trip, which do not require any physical effort, but would also be much less fun. Hoover Dam is very worth the trip, especially after they complete the bridge, which I think is scheduled for November.

Quote: Wizard

I still say that Vegas is a lousy place to bring kids to visit, and for kids to live. However, if the kids are fairly strong, I have always liked the Black Canyon kayak trip, that Lisa wrote about. There are also pontoon boats that do the same trip, which do not require any physical effort, but would also be much less fun. Hoover Dam is very worth the trip, especially after they complete the bridge, which I think is scheduled for November.

agree with Hoover Dam. It just blows my mind they were actually able to build something of that magnitude.

Personally, the last time I went to Vegas (for 5 days) I BARELY gambled at all..there's just so much to see in Vegas, gambling comes second (all the casinos are cool in their own right just to WALK through them, then all the free attractions, then the paid sights like RedRock, Valley of Fire, Hoover Dam, etc)
I dunno about it being a place for SMALL kids, but I would say 13-21 would be allright. (Although maybe I was just mature for my age?)

I think there is a window for kids (out of diapers - about 11 years old) when the sights, lights, and pools are great for them and their parents. The pool at the Golden Nugget has a tube slide through a tank full of sharks, The pool at Mandalay Bay has a wave generator. You can walk through the tank of tigers at the MGM. The "problem" is if a parent wants to gamble, someone needs to dedicate their time to watching the kids.

From age 12 - 20, Vegas has to be the worst destination for more than a day (or the half day it takes to get through everything at the Circus Circus Adventuredome). If you step out on the strip on a Saturday night, it is filled with bored teens with nothing to do but cruise and get into trouble. The ones with cash and fake ID's all seem to hang out at the Palms. Best to leave this group at home.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I think there is a window for kids (out of diapers - about 11 years old) when the sights, lights, and pools are great for them and their parents. The pool at the Golden Nugget has a tube slide through a tank full of sharks, The pool at Mandalay Bay has a wave generator. You can walk through the tank of tigers at the MGM. The "problem" is if a parent wants to gamble, someone needs to dedicate their time to watching the kids.

From age 12 - 20, Vegas has to be the worst destination for more than a day (or the half day it takes to get through everything at the Circus Circus Adventuredome). If you step out on the strip on a Saturday night, it is filled with bored teens with nothing to do but cruise and get into trouble. The ones with cash and fake ID's all seem to hang out at the Palms. Best to leave this group at home.

The city has a curfew:
Children under 18 may not be out past 10PM on weekdays and midnight on weekends unless accompanied by an adult.

Is it strictly enforced as they claim?

Quote: benbakdoff

The city has a curfew:
Children under 18 may not be out past 10PM on weekdays and midnight on weekends unless accompanied by an adult.

Is it strictly enforced as they claim?

Are there bed bugs in New York?



Any efforts to crack down on this problem are like swatting roaches in your kitchen. You might turn on the lights and stomp a few, but all they do is scatter until you turn off the lights.

I feel sorry for teens in Las Vegas. They are perceived as, and treated like, a nuisance; instead of the future casino patrons that they really are.

Quote: Nareed

isn't there some sort of law requiring all adult vistors to Vegas gamble? :P

There is actually a surprisingly large percentage of visitors who gamble little to nothing. Many of them like to shop, and a few just like the fine dining.

Downtown has mostly gamblers however.

Quote: Nareed

My boss returned from vegas a few days ago. Talking about his trip, it came up neither he nor his wife gambled at all in the five days they spent there. I find that very hard to believe, even if they wasted a day at the Grand Canyon. But I also have no reason to doubt him.

isn't there some sort of law requiring all adult vistors to Vegas gamble? :P

LOL!

Quote: Wizard

I still say that Vegas is a lousy place to bring kids to visit

Wiz:

While I think I understand your point of view.....

I think it all depends on the attitude of the parents. If you want
to have a nice & enjoyable family vacation, and your focus is
on your kids, Las Vegas can be a great destination.

Of course, on the other hand, if the parents just want to drink
and gamble, then it makes no sense to drag the kids to LV.
And there probably are some parents ( any is too many )
that are doing just that.

So, having said that:

We just spent a couple of weeks in and around LV, and we
had a great time. This is what we did AS A FAMILY during this
trip ( with the exception of the *'s, which indicates that my wife
and I didn't actually go in, but we waited outside while the kids
enjoyed it ):

- Arcade Games at Circus Circus

- Adventuredome at CC ( we had discount tix to
come back a 2nd time, but our girls, ages 12 & 14,
didn't like it enough to make a return trip. The lines
weren't too long when we were there, but the whole
place is a bit out-dated ).

- Swimming Pools at the Hotels

- Outlet Mall in Primm

- Outlet Mall near downtown

* CSI Experience at MGM

- Lion Habitat at MGM

- Gameworks on the Strip

- Mystere at TI

- Mac King ( of course - his show is excellent ).

- The Rat Pack is Back at the Plaza, which both
girls enjoyed and thought was very good.

- Lion King at Mandaly Bay

* Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum

- Pirate Show at TI ( the kids thought it was "corny"
and didn't want to go back and see it again, even
though we stayed there for a couple of nights ).

- Caesar's Palace Shops / Statues

- Bellagio Fountains

- Imax Movie at Red Rock Casino (Inception)

- Spring Mtn State Park ( just past Red Rock )

- Sky Parade at Rio

- We drove up to Utah for a couple of nights and
saw Bryce Canyon. Well worth the trip. ( We had
done the North Rim of the Grand Canyon a couple
of years ago ).

- I also went jogging several times with my older
daughter in the morning before it got too hot, since
she is running on the Cross Country team at school
this year.

- And I am probably forgetting a couple of things !

I had been planning on also doing the Rides at Buffalo Bill's,
the Pinball Musuem, and Springs Preserve Park but we
weren't able to fit those in this trip !

The kid's favorite buffet's were at TI and RIO, their least
favorites were Imperial Palace and Gold Coast.

Quote: JohnnyQ

Gold Coast.

I think you have to be at least 45 to appreciate the wonder that is Gold Coast buffet. (I am not that age yet but sometimes I feel like I share the same mentality). The Imperial buffet unequivocally sucks.

Quote: JohnnyQ

Wiz:

While I think I understand your point of view.....

I think it all depends on the attitude of the parents. If you want
to have a nice & enjoyable family vacation, and your focus is
on your kids, Las Vegas can be a great destination.

Great post. There are lots of family activities (and many that are free) in Vegas. The problem for teens, is what will they do on the next trip? As wonderful as "M&M World" is, it's not so wonderful the second time. Even, the Bellagio fountains, that in my opinion, are the single most amazing "free" thing in Las Vegas, aren't drawing the crowds they used to. Although there were plenty of folks walking on the sidewalk, there were still plenty of open spots on the rail during the show, even on a warm spring Saturday night.

Quote: Ayecarumba

I feel sorry for teens in Las Vegas. They are perceived as, and treated like, a nuisance; instead of the future casino patrons that they really are.

Shopping? While teens may spend a lot of time hanging out at the mall, that's because they are their with their friends, hanging out together. And fine dining? What teen enjoys that?

JohnnyQ's list is good, but most are good only as family vacation activities. How many teens would want to do any of that stuff on their own?

Quote: teddys

I think you have to be at least 45 to appreciate the wonder that is Gold Coast buffet. (I am not that age yet but sometimes I feel like I share the same mentality). The Imperial buffet unequivocally sucks.

Teddy, the best part of the Gold Coast buffet is it cheesy name: Ports O Call

I, too, enjoy the spread there.

Quote: Ayecarumba

Great post. There are lots of family activities (and many that are free) in Vegas. The problem for teens, is what will they do on the next trip? As wonderful as "M&M World" is, it's not so wonderful the second time. Even, the Bellagio fountains, that in my opinion, are the single most amazing "free" thing in Las Vegas, aren't drawing the crowds they used to. Although there were plenty of folks walking on the sidewalk, there were still plenty of open spots on the rail during the show, even on a warm spring Saturday night.

If most family vacations are like mine were, there is no "next trip". We always went someplace different, and it was a lot of fun.

Also, there are NO activities that teens really want to do with their family. Parents should be at least 5 nautical miles away at all times in public.

Quote: JohnnyQ

This is what we did AS A FAMILY during this trip...

Very good post! Those were some good suggestions. I have to admit I'm jaded and am sick of just about everything on your list. However, before I became that way, my kids enjoyed such things as the Adventuredome, Bellagio Fountains, gondola rides, and Secret Gardens a few times because they got bored with them.

One underrated Vegas area activity is the Bonnie' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://www.bonniesprings.com/]Bonnie Springs Ranch. Combining that with Red Rock makes for a great way to spend about six hours if you have kids.

Quote: Nareed

Vegas has a great many rather unusual entertainment options you don't find anywhere else, at least not all bunched together in a relatively small space. There are roller coasters, art galleries, museums, botanical gardens, small zoos (sort of), and whatever you call the more extremely themed hotels (I like just walking around Luxor, Venetian, Paris and Caesars looking at the architecture and ornaments). Plus gambling and the shows, not to mention shopping malls galore. And the scale of things is just diferent from what you find almost everywhere else.

What I'm saying is that casinos or no casinos, Vegas is in a class by itself.

New York certainly has better galleries and museums, and a wider variety of architecture. They have botanical gardens too, no idea which your average botanist would visit. They also have major sports teams and I think a minor theatre district hidden away somewhere, I forget which street it's on. They also have several famous stores/districts and tons of specialty markets. And trips to the outer buroughs cover the zoo and roller coaster. [Coney Island only operates from Easter to Labor Day though, so maybe we should call that .5 roller coasters.]

Both have money themed streets and the Statue of Liberty. Vegas gets a win there for combining them.

A fairer assesment might be that Vegas isn't in a class by itself, but it's a pretty small member of the class of big cities. I don't think it competes with NY, London, Paris, etc. in terms of non-gaming attractions but it comes pretty close for the population difference.

Quote: TIMSPEED

Personally, the last time I went to Vegas (for 5 days) I BARELY gambled at all..there's just so much to see in Vegas, gambling comes second (all the casinos are cool in their own right just to WALK through them, then all the free attractions, then the paid sights like RedRock, Valley of Fire, Hoover Dam, etc)
I dunno about it being a place for SMALL kids, but I would say 13-21 would be allright. (Although maybe I was just mature for my age?)

Once I went with a few people that don't gamble, so I gambled for approximately 1 hour of the entire 6 day trip. I'd not been since I was a child, and there was so much to see. I told them, "Don't worry, I can gamble in AC whenever I want." Vegas really wasn't offering anything (placing a sports bet isn't really sitting down, gambling, and spending time) that I can't do in AC.

Quote: Wizard

One underrated Vegas area activity is the Bonnie' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://www.bonniesprings.com/]Bonnie Springs Ranch.

Update: We went to Bonnie Springs Ranch a couple of years ago based on a Frommer's or Fodor's guidebook recommendation. Unfortunately, it apparently had slipped quite a bit and/or the price had gone up. It
was OK, and I saw that it had lots of potential but unfortunately that was NOT being used.

Also, the horseback riding guides were a bit on the rude side. If my wife and daughter were
experienced horseback riders, we wouldn't have been there. Maybe the guides were just having an off day.
So my recommendation can only be luke-warm.