Non-gaming conversations between dealer and player
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23 members have voted
Some feel this would distract the player, the dealer or both.
However some feel that if it's not a game of skill where the concentration level of the player, the dealer or both can be thrown off, it would be perfectly fine. A game of pure luck like sic bo would not be affected by conversation unless you are superstitious, etc.
For a dealer to engage in conversation especially as the person starting the conversation, is it alright? Worse when the dealer is trying to pick up the player. Should the pit boss have said something? If it happened to me, I would maybe tell the dealer off but in Asian culture where it is frowned upon to tell someone off especially a total stranger, some players might not be as brave.
What if the tables are turned and it was a player who is trying to get a dealer's number? Are there strict rules that forbid these personal relationships between dealer and players (or even rules that forbid the starting of these relationships)?
On a different note, if I had a girlfriend who was a dealer, would it mean I cannot enter the casino where my girlfriend works or I just can't play at the same table?
Also, I think the only games in a casino where you need concentration are blackjack, and then only if you're counting, and poker, where, well, the players do their talking between themselves.
A lot of players have conversations with their dealers even when counting. Not always for cover reasons.
Hitting on someone in a casino - I don't know for sure, but my guess it's the same as in any other place, store, restaurant, club, whatever.
Quote:On a different note, if I had a girlfriend who was a dealer, would it mean I cannot enter the casino where my girlfriend works or I just can't play at the same table?
Not sure, but my guess is perhaps neither so long as you aren't colluding. Which would be stupid, because if you're gonna collude, do it with a stranger - avoids creating circumstantial evidence, and you both have vested interest in keeping quiet, because collusion is a felony, while flashing or holecarding on their own aren't crimes at all, so there's no leverage for deals.
The Old school of attitude of "dummy up, shut up and deal' is now dead and gone, and has been for a long time, replaced by "be an entertainer, a conversationalist, and have a personality; do NOT be a cold, boring machine. That what IGT and WMS (slot machine distributors) make."
Orders are:
- memorize every regular's name, make them feel important, as they are important.
- Warm greeting, Fond farewell.
- If you are no better than a machine, then you are worse than a machine - and they will play the machines, closing the table games pit, and sending you to the unemployment line. Remember this when you pay your mortgage or car payment.
Certain dealers who were disagreeable and miserable, and were just contagious with misery end up out of table games, (and in slots, etc.), which is a good thing. Pleasant dealers do well. A lot to talk about: Current Events (Super Bowl, Whitney Houston, Iran, Obama, the weather), books, Movies, shows in town, restaurants, their work, cars, their vacations, etc.....)
Remember as an aside, you cannot deal to family, those in a relationship with you (girlfriend, fiance, etc.), or partners in a business with you. You can deal to acquaitances, indeed 95% of the people at my table are on a first name basis. Some nights it is everyone at the table for the full shift: Kay, Bob, Frank, Daisy, Aaron, Edgar, Jim, Mike, Carmine, Diane, Tuan, Pete, Huan, Janice, Denise, Charles, Rita, Rebecca, Karen, Dave, etc.........
At a place such as South Point, you keep your yap shut and the dealer keeps his yap shut other than what might be strictly necessary.
Deadweight dealers who do not smile, chat or get tokes soon get pressured to shape up.
If there are few customers, both a dealer and a bartender has the time to talk and be sociable. However, if they table/bar is full things are different. Sure, you can still expect to see a smile and a warm personality, but the actual conversation may be limited.
That was pretty much the answer I got when I asked Dan prior to my last visit, if it would be OK if I got a room at his casino and played at his table.Quote: Paigowdan...you cannot deal to family, those in a relationship with you (girlfriend, fiance, etc.), or partners in a business with you. You can deal to acquaintances.
I believe most casinos prohibit employees from giving personal information, and if they don't prohibit it, they certainly discourage it. A player can give their information but any unwelcome advances might be construed as harassment and would be dealt as such. This could get you banned if taken to an extreme...
As far as dealers "hitting" on customers... I work in the retail industry and am very service oriented. There are customers who believe that our high level of service could be construed as me "hitting on them," although probably not to the level you might see at a Hooters, where waitresses are trying to increase their tips. If there is an interest, it's kept discrete as it's not worth my job...
One time at Casino Royale I was doing my usual 6AM craps session and had the table to myself so I played the don'ts. The point was 4 and the 7 just wasn't coming up. The dealer and I were chatting and she says to me, "Hit that far corner with a high toss. Sevens always seem to come out of there." I role the four of course. She was immediately afraid that I would blame her. I re-assured her that it's a random game and that these things happen.
My wife doesn't play the table games, but whenever we go to the blackjack table she and I engage the dealer and other players in light conversation. We always try to pick a less busy table so that she can sit as well. No matter how quiet things are we always wish players luck when their first card is an ace and congratulate them on a blackjack.
However there's one dealer at the Bellagio that the more you chat with her the less accurate she is. She mis-counts her or the player's hand. Sometimes it's in the player's favour and sometimes it's not. She's very nice and seems to like to chat with the players too, but having to correct her slows things down because the floorman has to come over and sort things out.
Some of the younger dealers we've had at the Bellagio don't want to chat at all. They deal out the cards as fast as possible like they're trying to keep their hands per hour high or something.
Quote: helpmespockHowever there's one dealer at the Bellagio that the more you chat with her the less accurate she is. She mis-counts her or the player's hand. Sometimes it's in the player's favour and sometimes it's not. She's very nice and seems to like to chat with the players too, but having to correct her slows things down because the floorman has to come over and sort things out.
Some of the younger dealers we've had at the Bellagio don't want to chat at all. They deal out the cards as fast as possible like they're trying to keep their hands per hour high or something.
A DEALER at BELLAGIO actually had a personality?????? Are you sure you weren't at Cosmopolitan; it's right next door...
If you don't like conversations with dealers, Bellagio is THE place to go. I've never been to a casino that is as cold and rude as that. They have pretty good BJ games too, so it's a shame, but if you like frigid, this is your place.
Clearly some chatter takes on the aspects of sexual banter but it would not be personally directed to anyone still at the table. Gone are the days when panty-less women could shoot the dice under an upraised leg or make sexual comments about the individual crew members.
Quote: NicksGamingStufftook and paid my money in lightning speed. .
Dealers like that are usually prized by casinos,
many get promoted to the pit.
Quote: cclub79When playing Craps, one of the few things I don't enjoy is when the dealers (and sometimes the box, too) are having a conversation about their shift, other people, or something that is not related to the game. I often like to go to an empty table, and they may have been talking for a bit before that to pass the time, but I find it disconcerting when it doesn't stop in a reasonable amount of time. I don't mind if they talk to me, or even if they are talking about sports or something that I could join in (I'm not anti-social), but when it's about inside baseball or personal stuff, it's unprofessional. And it's happened to me probably at every casino I've been to if I've played there at an empty or near empty table.
On a light game (one or two players), crap dealers may cross-talk as if the game were dead (empty). This does come off as rude, - in a "non-acknowledgement," or as an exclusion, of the one or two players who ARE there. Nothing is meant by it, cetainly not in that way, but it does show that dealers who are chatty and willing to hold a conversation, might not wish to include you. I don't mind it when I'm playing, as I know these guys know each other. Once, when dealing on a light table, I was discussing my last trip to Bangkok between stick calls with the base dealer, the player was pretty interested in listening anyway and made a few comments...("Dan, after her Thai boyfriend busted into your hotel room, you were lucky to get out alive, even without your pants or your wallet....of course the police found it funny...they knew the girl was lying...obviously a set-up....you should have seen it going in, - so to speak...")
Quote: EvenBobDealers like that are usually prized by casinos,
many get promoted to the pit.
No, Bob.
These dealers usually end up with consistently dead tables of no action very quickly. Casinos do not like that...
Quote: TiltpoulA DEALER at BELLAGIO actually had a personality?????? Are you sure you weren't at Cosmopolitan; it's right next door...
If you don't like conversations with dealers, Bellagio is THE place to go. I've never been to a casino that is as cold and rude as that. They have pretty good BJ games too, so it's a shame, but if you like frigid, this is your place.
Indeed we've had a number of cold and/or rude dealers at the Bellagio, but on balance it's been decent. Usually the cold/rude ones are the rotating break dealers. If we get a bad one we leave. The problem is that I like playing for $10 a hand as it makes blackjacks and surrenders an even $15 or $5.
I've heard the Cosmopolitan has nice blackjack dealers and I'll certainly be checking them out this next trip coming up. However I see that the Wizard's blackjack survey has them at $15 with 8 decks. I stay at the Wynn and I can get a $15 game with 6 decks and I've yet to have a rude dealer there.
--helpmespock
Quote: PaigowdanNo, Bob.
These dealers usually end up with consistently dead tables .
The fast dealers end up with dead tables? Not in
the casinos I go to. The fast dealers are prized,
both by players and management. And they do
get promoted, I've seen it over the years. Thats
who they want in the pit, a fast and hip dealer
who knows the games well. I love a fast dealer,
especially at roulette. The payouts are smooth
and quick and they get more spins out of a dealer
who takes of business.
Quote: EvenBobThe fast dealers end up with dead tables? Not in
the casinos I go to. The fast dealers are prized,
both by players and management. And they do
get promoted, I've seen it over the years. Thats
who they want in the pit, a fast and hip dealer
who knows the games well. I love a fast dealer,
especially at roulette. The payouts are smooth
and quick and they get more spins out of a dealer
who takes of business.
It's not a question of being a fast dealer.
It's being a dealer who customers want to play with instead of avoid.
Quote: PaigowdanIt's not a question of being a fast dealer.
It's being a dealer who customer want to play with instead of avoiding.
All the really fast dealers I know talk very little, they're
way too busy. There's a pretty black girl I like at
a local casino and she never talks, but boy can she deal
BJ and roulette. She never has to stop and think about
the payouts, no matter how complicated they are. Its a
wonder just to watch her. The hand-eye coordination she
has is like lightening.
Quote: EvenBobAll the really fast dealers I know talk very little, they're
way too busy. There's a pretty black girl I like at
a local casino and she never talks, but boy can she deal
BJ and roulette. She never has to stop and think about
the payouts, no matter how complicated they are. Its a
wonder just to watch her. The hand-eye coordination she
has is like lightening.
A dealer needs both great hands and a desirability to play with.
Good Hands are assumed to be in place, and are the basic requirement for the job, though some are better than others. Some dealers are amazing to watch, and others are lumpy, as they say.
But there is no question that if the players are unwilling to play with you, there is a problem.
Slot machines are also fast and perfect, as a good professional dealer is.
A good dealer attracts players - and makes them feel comfortable for being there. This is a very important quality, vital, in fact.
Quote: Paigowdan
A good dealer attracts players - and makes them feel
comfortable for being there. This is a very important quality,
vital, in fact.
Somebody mentioned this, but have you ever been to the
Bellagio, Dan? They have the rudest dealers on the
planet and the casino seems to be doing just fine. They
don't smile, they aren't friendly, they act like they're
doing you a favor just by being there. Personally, I
could care less, I'm there to make money, not friends.
People play at tables where they're winning, the dealer
is secondary.
The best dealers for speed, efficiency and layout with some personality are at Harrah's Joliet. Their BJ dealers lay cards out near perfectly each time, every time. Of course, most have been dealing there since they opened in the early 90s so that makes a difference.
Or a barber! For what it's worth, I don't like to chitchat with my barber. I can't stand small talk.Quote: DJTeddyBearOn the question of whether a dealer should engage in conversation or not, I like to think that a dealer is like a bartender.
I find its too hard to generalize at the big casinos about dealers. There are just too many. For example, my first trip to the Mirage I had a really bad dealer. But this last trip I played there A LOT and really liked almost all the dealers. Bellagio I've had some good ones but some of them more recently were just cold. For overall friendliness, I like the Hacienda.
Actually, I don't think barbers are in the same category, since they are always working on a one-on-one situation.Quote: teddysOr a barber! For what it's worth, I don't like to chitchat with my barber. I can't stand small talk.
Dealers, like bartenders, should slow down and chit chat when there are few customers, and speed up and reduce the conversation (while keeping things cordial) when there are many customers.
Quote: Jerm882000
On a different note, if I had a girlfriend who was a dealer, would it mean I cannot enter the casino where my girlfriend works or I just can't play at the same table?
Quick rule of thumb for dealers dealing to acquaintances: If the person casually asked the dealer to lunch, would the dealer find it odd? If not, they shouldn't be playing on that dealer's table. For example, it'd be normal to go to lunch with an old college buddy (shouldn't play) but it'd be weird if your mailman asked you (go ahead and let him play).
I'm sure it happens, but not to me because I don't count well enough.Quote: JustbreakHas anybody ever thought a dealer was intentionally having a conversation with them to try to keep them off their count?
More likely that I'd strike up a conversation with the dealer to distract her to overpay me, or misdeal in my favour .
$;o)
Anyhow, welcome to the forum.
Or the dealer taking a random comment from a player and turning it into a long story they tell...while not dealing.
Or they decide to fill in their table buddies on how they got skipped on break because that other dealer gamed the system...while not dealing.
If you can hold a light and random conversation while continuing to deal, great. Adds personality and interest to the table. If you can't talk AND deal...your choice should be to deal.
And yeah, I know it's sometimes a tactic to distract or engage a bad dealer, as mentioned above. I don't enjoy it. I don't do it (on purpose: I've been guilty many times of starting a conversation, not realizing it will take every ounce of the dealer's brainpower to tell that 5 minute story, leaving none for shuffling, dealing, or changing cheques while their lips are moving), and I don't encourage it.
Quote: beachbumbabsAnd yeah, I know it's sometimes a tactic to distract or engage a bad dealer, as mentioned above. I don't enjoy it. I don't do it (on purpose: I've been guilty many times of starting a conversation, not realizing it will take every ounce of the dealer's brainpower to tell that 5 minute story, leaving none for shuffling, dealing, or changing cheques while their lips are moving), and I don't encourage it.
I was only joking Babs. I'm not that dishonorable... and I seldom play live anyway.
Quote: OnceDearI was only joking Babs. I'm not that dishonorable... and I seldom play live anyway.
OD,
I wasn't in the slightest suggesting anything about you. Sorry to have left that impression.
However, I don't think it's dishonorable, exactly. I just don't like it. I've been at several tables when someone else is doing it, and that's what I was really referring to.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat I hate is a dealer and customer having enough of a non-game conversation that the dealer stops dealing.
Or the dealer taking a random comment from a player and turning it into a long story they tell...while not dealing.
Or they decide to fill in their table buddies on how they got skipped on break because that other dealer gamed the system...while not dealing.
If you can hold a light and random conversation while continuing to deal, great. Adds personality and interest to the table. If you can't talk AND deal...your choice should be to deal.
And yeah, I know it's sometimes a tactic to distract or engage a bad dealer, as mentioned above. I don't enjoy it. I don't do it (on purpose: I've been guilty many times of starting a conversation, not realizing it will take every ounce of the dealer's brainpower to tell that 5 minute story, leaving none for shuffling, dealing, or changing cheques while their lips are moving), and I don't encourage it.
There are particular pit bosses that will over-rate my play for a certain game, somaometimes I actually pray for this type of dealer.
I don't count cards either but its nice to hear an occasional 'good play' from the dealer or from other players even though it was pure luck. you go against Basic Strategy and lose you are a dolt, but if you happen to win then they chat with you a bit.
Its simple politeness which sometimes lapses in a casino due to general emotions, mounting losses and alcohol consumption.
Time goes by really slow when you have nobody talking or there is a POS being a crybaby..which is the only time i dummy up and deal..i could care less how many face cards I have on top, or how the dice hit a 7 every time you make a big bet.
Why would any dealer purposely distract a player from their count? 999/1000 dealers want your tip $$$ and could give 2 shits if a player is counting, or is an AP.
Another thing..purposely looking for weaker dealers so you can hope to distract them for a mis-pay? Thats just unethical
Quote: GlenGIf you don't like a chatty dealer..don't play at that table..1000x better to have a dealer with a personality than a robot. I like to talk a lot(and i mean a lot) when im dealing..but i also never change my pace of dealing,..it takes a good amount of practice.
Time goes by really slow when you have nobody talking or there is a POS being a crybaby..which is the only time i dummy up and deal..i could care less how many face cards I have on top, or how the dice hit a 7 every time you make a big bet.
Why would any dealer purposely distract a player from their count? 999/1000 dealers want your tip $$$ and could give 2 shits if a player is counting, or is an AP.
Another thing..purposely looking for weaker dealers so you can hope to distract them for a mis-pay? Thats just unethical
You're my kind of dealer. I agree it takes skill and experience to keep up your pace. And I think it should be a requirement for those who work the premium places.
I think you have to enjoy being there, doing it, watching what comes out. If it's just a job or you don't want to be there, chances are you're not very entertaining, either.
I'm the kind of customer who will encourage a rude or whining customer to get up. "If you're not enjoying yourself, you should get up, go get dinner..this is supposed to be fun" something like that. Chances are, though, if I'm saying that, we're at the point where either the whiner or I are leaving, because I'm not going to listen to it. Poor you. You can't leave. But you also can't say the things I can (as a customer) to another customer. So occasionally, it helps.
Yeah, I know, not an AP attitude or move (maybe sometimes ). But most good APs I know wouldn't bring that much attention to themselves in the first place.
Quote: OnceDearI'm sure it happens, but not to me because I don't count well enough.
More likely that I'd strike up a conversation with the dealer to distract her to overpay me, or misdeal in my favour .
$;o)
Anyhow, welcome to the forum.
funny story, i like to say "ill take even money" whenever the dealer has a ten or above when I have what i *think* is a winning hand... so anything hard 17 or above. I have actually screwed myself out of money saying this as the one dealer i had liked to talk and listen to my bullshit alot. About 3 times, i actually had blackjack, the dealer was so quick to pay me, and ready to deal my next hand, and joking around like that i actually got what i asked for. the dealers ace didnt amount to blackjack and he paid me even money. personally i was having too much fun and thought it was *kind* of funny. at one point i let him know but it wasnt that big of a deal as i dont stray from the minimum too much. yeah im dumb haha
Quote: Jerm882000Is it okay to have non-gaming conversations between dealer and player?
I enjoy talking to and interacting with pit critters.
One time at M a dealer asked me about the Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Phase de lune watch I was wearing; that led to a very interesting conversation about the pros and cons of various makes of Swiss watches.
Don't for a minute think a dealer is a dummy just because some yahoo tells him to "Dummy up and deal."
Dealers are an accessible form of info and entertainment.
Quote: MrVI enjoy talking to and interacting with pit critters.
One time at M a dealer asked me about the Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Phase de lune watch I was wearing; that led to a very interesting conversation about the pros and cons of various makes of Swiss watches.
Don't for a minute think a dealer is a dummy just because some yahoo tells him to "Dummy up and deal."
Dealers are an accessible form of info and entertainment.
Sadly, alot of the pit managers and dealers know me by name
Quote: MrVI enjoy talking to and interacting with pit critters.
One time at M a dealer asked me about the Maurice Lacroix Masterpiece Phase de lune watch I was wearing; that led to a very interesting conversation about the pros and cons of various makes of Swiss watches.
Don't for a minute think a dealer is a dummy just because some yahoo tells him to "Dummy up and deal."
Dealers are an accessible form of info and entertainment.
It's why I love dealing in Vegas compared to a local joint. Lots of different people to talk to from all over the world rather than the same ones every single day
I would never joke about the amount of a bet, whether you are in or out of a came, whether you want another card or not, etc. If at a baccarat table, don't talk about the dealer's tie or the teller at a bank. If at a roulette table don't talk about a movie entitled red and black.Quote: heatmapfunny story, i like to say "ill take even money" whenever the dealer has a ten or above when I have what i *think* is a winning hand... so anything hard 17 or above
Keep your conversation entertaining but not confusing. "I'll take Even Money" is not a joke, its a decision that you've announced. Dealers react.
Can you imagine a poker player saying "I'm all in" when he meant that he was tired?
Quote: FleaStiffKeep your conversation entertaining but not confusing. "I'll take Even Money" is not a joke, its a decision that you've announced. Dealers react.
The joke is really only told when dealer has an Ace up and player has anything other than a Blackjack. I ignore it, but it will always bring a chuckle from someone on the table (usually the player saying it)
Quote: GlenGThe joke is really only told when dealer has an Ace up and player has anything other than a Blackjack. I ignore it, but it will always bring a chuckle from someone on the table (usually the player saying it)
I try not to make any comments about the game to the dealer at all, because the dealer has heard it thousands of times. I enjoy talking to dealers (sometimes). It'll be sad when everything goes to electronic.
