Casino Ethics: Clocks
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 | 12 votes (66.66%) | ||
| | 6 votes (33.33%) |
18 members have voted
Arguments for yes:
Not all businesses have clocks
Wear a watch
Arguments for no:
They don't want you to realize how long you have been playing
They don't want you to realize it's bedtime
They want you at the games longer to increases their profit
Any more arguments?
Quote: kpAre casinos acting ethically but not having clocks?
Arguments for yes:
Not all businesses have clocks
Wear a watch
Arguments for no:
They don't want you to realize how long you have been playing
They don't want you to realize it's bedtime
They want you at the games longer to increases their profit
Any more arguments?
Restaurants and shopping malls thumb are the same way.
Unethical.
I've asked floorpeople for the time, and have NEVER had one tell me he wasn't wearing a watch.
Casinos don't have clocks for the same reason that many other business doesn't have one: There's no central location that would be obvious to look for it.
Watches are cheap and universally available and often worn by the gamblers too.
It is however undeniable that the casinos know that "first nighters", particularly females, tend to stay up all night gambling or atleast stay up all night enjoying themselves that first night.
Quote: AyecarumbaIf it were regulated, and they did not do it, it would be unethical
No, it would just be unlawful or non-compliant, ethical as it might be.
Quote: NowTheSerpentNo, it would just be unlawful or non-compliant, ethical as it might be.
Yes. Operating a business knowingly out of line with local regulation would make the lack of a clock unethical. Choosing not to post a timepiece when it is optional? A design question, a customer service question, but not an ethical one.
It would be different if employees were required to claim they didn't know the time (even if they had a timepiece.)
Quote: AyecarumbaYes. Operating a business knowingly out of line with local regulation would make the lack of a clock unethical.
Ethics don't change with regulation, although regulations may be put in place to enforce ethical behavior. I drive 60mph. Is that ethical? Does the ethics of driving 60mph change depending on the speed limit being 55mph or 65mph? The legality of driving 60mph changes, but does the ethics? Or is ethics solely determined by what is or is not legal?
Quote: AyecarumbaIt would be different if employees were required to claim they didn't know the time (even if they had a timepiece.)
What if a business prevented employees from knowing the time? Is there a difference between a business policy that says employees are not allowed to tell the customer the time and a business that prevents employees from knowing the time so they can not tell the customer the time?
Quote: kpEthics don't change with regulation, although regulations may be put in place to enforce ethical behavior. I drive 60mph. Is that ethical? Does the ethics of driving 60mph change depending on the speed limit being 55mph or 65mph? The legality of driving 60mph changes, but does the ethics? Or is ethics solely determined by what is or is not legal?
Actually, whether one obeys the law or not is an ethical decision. Choosing to obey or violate the posted speed limit is an ethical decision. Driving, in and of itself, is not an ethical decision (akin to displaying a clock). Regardless of whether limits are posted, or not, choosing to drive recklessly, or knowingly impaired, is an ethical decision.
At the root of all of these decisions is a question of right and wrong. Are "right" and "wrong" relative or absolute? Answer that, and you will know if judging behaviors ethical or not is even possible.
Quote: kpWhat if a business prevented employees from knowing the time? Is there a difference between a business policy that says employees are not allowed to tell the customer the time and a business that prevents employees from knowing the time so they can not tell the customer the time?
I'm not sure it is possible for a business to "prevent" anyone from knowing the time. But if supervisors physically stopped their employees from checking with customers or the pit boss, wouldn't share the time off their watch if asked, or purposely gave incorrect information, it would be wrong.
I think the question you are asking is, "Was the decision to design a casino with no clocks morally wrong?" To that I answer "no". There are lots of businesses where the time is not clearly displayed. If you want to know, just ask.
Quote: AyecarumbaBut if supervisors physically stopped their employees from checking with customers or the pit boss, wouldn't share the time off their watch if asked, or purposely gave incorrect information, it would be wrong.
Why would that be wrong? Shouldn't a business have a right to choose to not share information with a customer?
Quote: kpI agree with breaking the law being unethical. But I also believe you can be unethical without breaking a law.
Certainly. The law only covers a few of the ethical decisions we make each day, and (hopefully) reflects a generally accepted standard of right and wrong.
Quote: Ayecarumba
But if supervisors physically stopped their employees from checking with customers or the pit boss, wouldn't share the time off their watch if asked, or purposely gave incorrect information, it would be wrong.Quote: kpWhy would that be wrong? Shouldn't a business have a right to choose to not share information with a customer?
It's not a question of a business having a right to not share, but whether it is right or wrong for an individual to restrain someone else's freedom, not assist another in need, or lie. Each of these actions can be ethically judged.Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
Quote: AyecarumbaIt's not a question of a business having a right to not share, but whether it is right or wrong for an individual to restrain someone else's freedom, not assist another in need, or lie. Each of these actions can be ethically judged.
I need to know the time. I ask the pit boss for the time. He says casino policy is to not share that information.
I need to know the time. I look at the clock on the wall. There isn't one because the casino manager told the interior designer that casino policy is to not share that information.
One is blatant. The other is subtle. Is there an ethical difference between the two?
Quote: kpOne is blatant. The other is subtle. Is there an ethical difference between the two?
Yes. The pit boss is actively choosing to not help you, even though he could. He is making a choice between assisting you, or following "casino policy".
Unless having a clock on the wall is a legal requirement of occupancy, leaving it off (even if the hope of management is increased profit) is an amoral design choice.
About the clocks, and other similar discussions, I highly doubt the casinos sit around a conference table and think about subtle ways to trick the players into losing more money. They don't want anyone to miss a flight or be late for dinner. Places like casinos, bars, and nightclubs are trying to set a mood where you can leave the real world behind and enjoy yourself. Clocks are generally associated with appointments, meetings, and running errands, things you are trying to forget in a casino. If you want to know what time it is, bring a watch.
Quote: Barney VinsonThere are clocks in the casino; you just have to know where to look. In most casinos, you simply enter the coffee shop, exit through the kitchen door, then walk down a dimly-lit stairway to the basement. Now go past the wardrobe department, the purchasing office, and the first aid room. Off to the right you'll see the time office. Inside is a clock where the employees punch in and punch out. It'll give you the correct time.
