A lady found $1200 on the floor (split from DO v GNAC)
Quote: AlanMendelsonA few months ago at Red Rock a lady slot player found $1200 wound up with a rubber band on the floor and the slot attendant told her to keep it.
Considering everything is on video and that’s totally against casino policy…the slot attendant is lucky he/she wasn’t fired.
Quote: TDVegasQuote: AlanMendelsonA few months ago at Red Rock a lady slot player found $1200 wound up with a rubber band on the floor and the slot attendant told her to keep it.
Considering everything is on video and that’s totally against casino policy…the slot attendant is lucky he/she wasn’t fired.
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How do you know it's against casino policy? This was discussed at the craps table I was playing at and the dealers and boxman were in agreement that the player should keep it.
Quote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
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Not sure it’s theft at that point anyway.
Quote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
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Not sure it’s theft at that point anyway.
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Exactly.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
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Not sure it’s theft at that point anyway.
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Exactly.
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You are in possession of property that does not belong to you. If I drop my wallet, does it become yours if you find it?
If I leave my phone at a slot machine, does it belong to the next person who finds it? How about if you find my credit cards?
Are they yours to use? Why would cash be any different?
Quote: billryanQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
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Not sure it’s theft at that point anyway.
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Exactly.
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You are in possession of property that does not belong to you. If I drop my wallet, does it become yours if you find it?
If I leave my phone at a slot machine, does it belong to the next person who finds it? How about if you find my credit cards?
Are they yours to use? Why would cash be any different?
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Possessing something that doesn’t belong to you does not, by itself, equate to the crime of theft. There are other components.
No one is arguing that the money belongs to the finder. Though plenty of states do have finders keepers laws on the books.
Quote: unJonQuote: billryanQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: unJonQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanCasino policy doesn't overrule State law. Taking property that doesn't belong to you is theft. Just because someone drops something doesn't mean it belongs to whoever picks it up.
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If a slot attendant told me to keep the money I'd keep it.
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Not sure it’s theft at that point anyway.
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Exactly.
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You are in possession of property that does not belong to you. If I drop my wallet, does it become yours if you find it?
If I leave my phone at a slot machine, does it belong to the next person who finds it? How about if you find my credit cards?
Are they yours to use? Why would cash be any different?
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Possessing something that doesn’t belong to you does not, by itself, equate to the crime of theft. There are other components.
No one is arguing that the money belongs to the finder. Though plenty of states do have finders keepers laws on the books.
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Look up what Nevada says about theft. It comes down to possessing something that doesn't belong to you, leaving with the property that isn't yours and attempting to convert it into your own. Would you be arrested for it? I think that depends if you are a citizen or a mutt. In any case, it would absolutely be against any casinos policy to violate Nevada law.
Googled the Nevada general theft statute. Note there may be more specific statute related to gaming. I didn’t look.
It has 10 different acts described that would be theft. Most relevant to finding lost money in a casino is as follows.
Quote: 2010 Nevada Code
TITLE 15 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
Chapter 205 Crimes Against Property
NRS 205.0832 Actions which constitute theft.(d) Comes into control of lost, mislaid or misdelivered property of another person under circumstances providing means of inquiry as to the true owner and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner.
I would think once an employee of the casino tells you to keep it, you have exercised “reasonable efforts.”
I hope they at least got a drink comped.
Quote: unJonJust for fun and not to be taken as legal advice.
Googled the Nevada general theft statute. Note there may be more specific statute related to gaming. I didn’t look.
It has 10 different acts described that would be theft. Most relevant to finding lost money in a casino is as follows.Quote: 2010 Nevada Code
TITLE 15 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
Chapter 205 Crimes Against Property
NRS 205.0832 Actions which constitute theft.(d) Comes into control of lost, mislaid or misdelivered property of another person under circumstances providing means of inquiry as to the true owner and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner.
I would think once an employee of the casino tells you to keep it, you have exercised “reasonable efforts.”
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I think the person who took the money with permission would be off the hook but the casino could be held liable.
The casino staff was wrong. They should have sent it to lost and found.
I hope if my wallet or cell phone gets mislaid in a casino the staff doesn't tell the first person that finds it to just abscond with my property.
Quote: darkozQuote: unJonJust for fun and not to be taken as legal advice.
Googled the Nevada general theft statute. Note there may be more specific statute related to gaming. I didn’t look.
It has 10 different acts described that would be theft. Most relevant to finding lost money in a casino is as follows.Quote: 2010 Nevada Code
TITLE 15 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
Chapter 205 Crimes Against Property
NRS 205.0832 Actions which constitute theft.(d) Comes into control of lost, mislaid or misdelivered property of another person under circumstances providing means of inquiry as to the true owner and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner.
I would think once an employee of the casino tells you to keep it, you have exercised “reasonable efforts.”
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I think the person who took the money with permission would be on the hook but the casino could be held liable.
The casino staff was wrong. They should have sent it to lost and found.
I hope if my wallet or cell phone gets mislaid in a casino the staff doesn't tell the first person that finds it to just abscond with my property.
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100% agree the casino employee was wrong. That’s separate from whether the person that ended up with the money committed the crime of theft.
Quote: unJonQuote: darkozQuote: unJonJust for fun and not to be taken as legal advice.
Googled the Nevada general theft statute. Note there may be more specific statute related to gaming. I didn’t look.
It has 10 different acts described that would be theft. Most relevant to finding lost money in a casino is as follows.Quote: 2010 Nevada Code
TITLE 15 CRIMES AND PUNISHMENTS
Chapter 205 Crimes Against Property
NRS 205.0832 Actions which constitute theft.(d) Comes into control of lost, mislaid or misdelivered property of another person under circumstances providing means of inquiry as to the true owner and appropriates that property to his or her own use or that of another person without reasonable efforts to notify the true owner.
I would think once an employee of the casino tells you to keep it, you have exercised “reasonable efforts.”
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I think the person who took the money with permission would be on the hook but the casino could be held liable.
The casino staff was wrong. They should have sent it to lost and found.
I hope if my wallet or cell phone gets mislaid in a casino the staff doesn't tell the first person that finds it to just abscond with my property.
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100% agree the casino employee was wrong. That’s separate from whether the person that ended up with the money committed the crime of theft.
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Yeah I meant *off the hook, not on the hook if that wasn't obvious. I went back and corrected my post.
Quote: AlanMendelsonHow do you know the employee was wrong? Did anyone ask the casino what their policy is?
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Nothing to do with casinos policy. Most every state has a law which dictates what the correct thing to do is
And has a law on the books criminalizing what you saw the casino do.
Las Vegas:
NEW JERSEY
What to do in NEW YORK:
I am confident that you will find most every State has some statute on the books about lost property including money.
Let's go back to what happened at Red Rock:
The player found $1200.
The slot attendant said keep it.
Obviously if the slot attendant said keep it, the player brought it to the attention of the slot attendant who represents the casino.
This law wasn't broken. The player made an effort.
So the question is, what's the policy of the casino?
There is another law in Nevada that says money found abandoned on casino property belongs to the casino. That might usurp the other law.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDid you read what you posted about Nevada?
Let's go back to what happened at Red Rock:
The player found $1200.
The slot attendant said keep it.
Obviously if the slot attendant said keep it, the player brought it to the attention of the slot attendant who represents the casino.
This law wasn't broken. The player made an effort.
So the question is, what's the policy of the casino?
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That’s not the question. There’s also the question of whether the casino employee violated Nevada law by not conducting a reasonable inquiry into the owner of the $1,200. Given access to cameras, I would have thought they had a duty to check those.
I think the casino is not off the hook given what happened. Person that kept the money probably was off hook.
Quote: AlanMendelsonDid you read what you posted about Nevada?
Let's go back to what happened at Red Rock:
The player found $1200.
The slot attendant said keep it.
Obviously if the slot attendant said keep it, the player brought it to the attention of the slot attendant who represents the casino.
This law wasn't broken. The player made an effort.
So the question is, what's the policy of the casino?
There is another law in Nevada that says money found abandoned on casino property belongs to the casino. That might usurp the other law.
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You asked what the casino rules were. I highly doubt the casinos rules about lost property is to violate state law.
The person who brought the item to the Casino employees is probably off the hook but not necessarily. A good faith effort to locate a person who lost their property may not be as simple as you suggest in this scenario.
I could see a DA arguing that the person in question knew that the employees were not being thorough in their search for the owner as they just shrugged their shoulders and said keep the property. $1200 is already grand theft. What if it was ten orange $5000 chips? You think an employee just shrugging and saying keep fifty grand and that person says they got permission from casino employees to keep it would fly?
If I find your wallet on the floor at a burger king and I ask the cashier can I keep it, you think her permission absolves me from a good faith effort to locate you?
As they say possession is a large portion of the law. In the end, the possession of the property isn't by those casino employees and I can see them being off the hook faster than the person who asked permission.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
Quote: billryanNevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
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If I were on the jury I'd vote to acquit the player who found the $1200. The player was told to keep the money.
I dont know if the slot attendant violated any casino rule. I didnt speak to the casino manager. I've asked several times now if anyone knows the casino policy?
From what I was told and from what was discussed at the craps table, we don't know if the slot attendant asked Security or management or what was done.
Unlike a wallet which can even have valid ID the money had no ID attached to it. We don't even know if someone reported a loss.
I find it curious no one says "yeah... what's the casino's policy on this?" You already have your minds made up!
Suppose the casino manager said: "no one reported a loss. Tell the player to keep the money." Then what?
Quote: billryanNevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
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Very much disagree. You keep making up facts as a straw man.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanNevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner. Asking one random person is not a reasonable effort.
Turning it into the lost and found would be. Posting on Craigs List would be. I believe the onus is on you to show you weren't planning on keeping it.
'An unidentified female employee told me I could keep the __________ I found in the casino " is something you tell your cellmate, not the arresting officer.
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If I were on the jury I'd vote to acquit the player who found the $1200. The player was told to keep the money.
I dont know if the slot attendant violated any casino rule. I didnt speak to the casino manager. I've asked several times now if anyone knows the casino policy?
From what I was told and from what was discussed at the craps table, we don't know if the slot attendant asked Security or management or what was done.
Unlike a wallet which can even have valid ID the money had no ID attached to it. We don't even know if someone reported a loss.
I find it curious no one says "yeah... what's the casino's policy on this?" You already have your minds made up!
Suppose the casino manager said: "no one reported a loss. Tell the player to keep the money." Then what?
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Why do you keep repeating what the casino policy is?
Alan, I guarantee casino policy is to follow the law.
End all be all
I have quoted you the law.
Bill Ryan and I have been at loggerheads on so many things we are toxic but what he says on this topic is spot on. Good faith to find an owner isn't asking someone who themselves doesn't conduct good faith efforts to find the owner and then says they did all they can.
Red Rock casino has a lost and found department on the website. I suppose this means their policy is to try and find the owners of lost property. Not tell the rightful owners the Craps boxman gave permission to a known stranger to walk off with it.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.
As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."
There is nothing about the casino.
So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.
The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
Quote: AlanMendelsonBill Ryan and Darkoz:
Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."
There is nothing about the casino.
So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.
The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
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Lol, okay you have come up with your own definition of reasonable attempt.
Here is what most states consider a reasonable attempt to find the owner.
You turn in the found item to lost and found and ask for a claim form. After sixty or ninety days (usually specified in statute law for that state) if the lost item isn't claimed by the rightful owner you can return with your claim form and receive the item.
Most states specifically include money in this type of definition of reasonable.
Again here is NY procedures.
Quote: billryanBut the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.
As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
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No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
Quote: unJonQuote: billryanBut the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.
As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
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No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
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Nonsense. I'm just saying it is illegal to keep money you find without going thru reasonable steps to find the owner. Claiming someone told you to keep it doesn't fit that bill.
I think converting someone else's property to your own without their permission is theft. If the DA chooses to plea bargain it down to possession of stolen property or any of a dozen other things doesn't change the fact.
Quote: billryanQuote: unJonQuote: billryanBut the boxman said it was okay if I let my kid sneak sips of my beer.
But the waitress said it was okay to smoke pot by the pool.
But the slot girl assured me this was a winning machine.
As my grandma possibly said: If a casino employee says to jump off the roof, would you do it?
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No. But if I did do it, I wouldn’t be guilty of “theft”. Not a hard concept. But you keep conflating “being guilty of theft” with other stuff.
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Nonsense. I'm just saying it is illegal to keep money you find without going thru reasonable steps to find the owner. Claiming someone told you to keep it doesn't fit that bill.
I think converting someone else's property to your own without their permission is theft. If the DA chooses to plea bargain it down to possession of stolen property or any of a dozen other things doesn't change the fact.
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I’m the one that told you the standard of reasonable inquiry.
Claiming “someone” told you to keep it may or may not be reasonable inquiry. It depends on the someone and the circumstances. And you making up different hypotheticals about the “someone” is not relevant. It’s just you arguing a straw man. But if that makes you happy please do carry on.
Conversion is a different crime than theft. Both are property crimes. If you are interested in the difference you can look up the Nevada statutes.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonBill Ryan and Darkoz:
Bill wrote "Nevada law says the finder must make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner."
There is nothing about the casino.
So... the player finds the money. The player tells the slot attendant. The slot attendant says keep it.
The player has made a reasonable attempt.
The slot attendant and the casino were never on the hook.
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Lol, okay you have come up with your own definition of reasonable attempt.
Here is what most states consider a reasonable attempt to find the owner.
You turn in the found item to lost and found and ask for a claim form. After sixty or ninety days (usually specified in statute law for that state) if the lost item isn't claimed by the rightful owner you can return with your claim form and receive the item.
Most states specifically include money in this type of definition of reasonable.
Again here is NY procedures.
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But that's not the law in Nevada, is it?
So consider this dialogue:
The player says "I told the slot attendant I found this money. The slot attendant told me I could keep it."
To the slot attendant: "Did you tell the player she could keep the money?"
Slot attendant says: "I wasn't the finder. The casino wasn't the finder. There was no identification on the money. Nothing showed on our surveillance. We don't know who lost it."
To the surveillance manager: "You didnt see the money dropped?"
Surveillance manager says: "It was rolled up like a big drinking straw. We didnt see it."
To the casino manager: "Why didnt you look for the person who lost the money?"
The casino manager says: "If we listed $1200 in $100 bills on our lost and found website how many people do you think would say its theirs? Besides, the law says the establishment doesn't have to locate the person who lost it... the finder does. The finder notified us and under another Nevada law money found in casinos belongs to us and we decided this player could keep it. It was our money as soon as it was found and we're giving it to the player. That's our policy."
Common defenses could be
lack of knowledge the item was lost- difficult to prove when you find money on the floor
You can claim you didn't intend to keep it and are holding it for the rightful owner.
tuttigym
Not sure if I'm seeing a database error or just a limitation on my client, but I can't effect the split right now. (Still delayed away from the office.)
Quote: DieterI'm going to split off the "found $1200" discussion as soon as I can, unless one of my esteemed counterparts beats me to it.
Not sure if I'm seeing a database error or just a limitation on my client, but I can't effect the split right now. (Still delayed away from the office.)
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I think this hypothetical discussion is over.
Quote: unJonWe can probably close the thread now. We’ve established people have trouble distinguishing between actions that violate their moral code and an analysis of whether the action fits within a particular criminal statute.
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I'm sure everything has its mode of discovery.
Rather than ponder let me just state a fact.
I left $1300+ in a slot machine after winning a very large jackpot. Got paid and forgot I had credits in the game still. The amount is close enough to the $1200 this lady found at the red Rock and while not on the floor(it was in the gaming machine) I see little difference in the simple fact that money was left behind in the casino and it was unintentional (, I don't think anyone thinks$1200 was purposefully left on the floor).
It's a fact that I realized my mistake and returned to the game and the money was gone
It's a fact that I contacted casino security and they confirmed who took the money and contacted the police.
And it's a fact that this July I have a Zoom trial date set with myself as plaintiff against this person.
Now the only real difference I see is this person didn't ask a slot attendant if it was okay to cash out the abandoned credits. Point of fact, for all I know that may actually be his argument.
What do you think will happen if he says this July that he asked the slots attendant passing by if he could cash out money he saw in the slot machine and was given the okay? Do you feel I have lost my case if that's the testimony?
Do you think if the slots attendant came forward two years ago (that's how long it's taken for this trial to happen) and said she gave permission for that guy to leave with my money casino security would have said I was out of luck because it was casino policy to give permission to people to keep abandoned cash?
Taking abandoned money in a casino whether on the floor or at a slot can lead to charges and that isn't my opinion. I have a case pending in court right now. So it's a fact!
Quote: billryanWhat I see is a couple of people who keep making up wild scenarios to try and make up for the fact that the law simply isn't on their side. In other words, just another routine thread at the WOV.
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Well played. Not sure who the couple of people are. The hypotheticals have been generated by Alan and yourself as far as my review of the thread shows.
Person dutifully walks to security office to turn it in
Person reports to security personnel that they found $600 dollars.
Security person records that $200 dollars was found.
Quote: rxwinePerson finds $1200 on the floor.
Person dutifully walks to security office to turn it in
Person reports to security personnel that they found $600 dollars.
Security person records that $200 dollars was found.
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Person finds wallet with $1600 on floor of courthouse.
Person takes out $1600 and walks wallet to security.
Person reports he found wallet, ID inside but no cash.
Owner of wallet complains
Cameras show person finding wallet and removing $1600 before walking wallet to security.
Person who took $1600 is an attorney.
Person is charged with theft and disbarred.
True story!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/article199941659.html
Quote: darkozQuote: rxwinePerson finds $1200 on the floor.
Person dutifully walks to security office to turn it in
Person reports to security personnel that they found $600 dollars.
Security person records that $200 dollars was found.
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Person finds wallet with $1600 on floor of courthouse.
Person takes out $1600 and walks wallet to security.
Person reports he found wallet, ID inside but no cash.
Owner of wallet complains
Cameras show person finding wallet and removing $1600 before walking wallet to security.
Person who took $1600 is an attorney.
Person is charged with theft and disbarred.
True story!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.newsobserver.com/news/local/article199941659.html
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You would think a skilled lawyer would know how to remove money from a wallet in his coat pocket without a reveal. And not be too greedy.
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
Quote: AlanMendelsonIsnt there a difference between finding $1200 on the ground and finding $1300 on a machine?
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
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No there isn't any difference.
First you just made an assumption that a player's card was used. Bad assumption.
A) plenty of people play slots without a player card or just forget to insert the card, perhaps they left it at home and don't want to wait on line. They feel it makes them unlucky, etc. Does a person give up their rights to money left on a slot machine because they didn't have a player card inserted?
B) The other issue is people sometimes accidentally play on a player card that someone before them left in the slot. Does the casino hand the wrong person the money in that situation?
No, it all comes down to cameras. The players card isn't supposed to be used for identification purposes.
And if all they rely on is cameras why would it be any different if the cameras picked up who dropped the money lost on the gaming floor?
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonIsnt there a difference between finding $1200 on the ground and finding $1300 on a machine?
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
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No there isn't any difference.
First you just made an assumption that a player's card was used. Bad assumption.
A) plenty of people play slots without a player card or just forget to insert the card, perhaps they left it at home and don't want to wait on line. They feel it makes them unlucky, etc. Does a person give up their rights to money left on a slot machine because they didn't have a player card inserted?
B) The other issue is people sometimes accidentally play on a player card that someone before them left in the slot. Does the casino hand the wrong person the money in that situation?
No, it all comes down to cameras. The players card isn't supposed to be used for identification purposes.
And if all they rely on is cameras why would it be any different if the cameras picked up who dropped the money lost on the gaming floor?
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Okay then, they have the cameras to find the culprit.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonIsnt there a difference between finding $1200 on the ground and finding $1300 on a machine?
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
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No there isn't any difference.
First you just made an assumption that a player's card was used. Bad assumption.
A) plenty of people play slots without a player card or just forget to insert the card, perhaps they left it at home and don't want to wait on line. They feel it makes them unlucky, etc. Does a person give up their rights to money left on a slot machine because they didn't have a player card inserted?
B) The other issue is people sometimes accidentally play on a player card that someone before them left in the slot. Does the casino hand the wrong person the money in that situation?
No, it all comes down to cameras. The players card isn't supposed to be used for identification purposes.
And if all they rely on is cameras why would it be any different if the cameras picked up who dropped the money lost on the gaming floor?
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Okay then, they have the cameras to find the culprit.
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Look I am not arguing the morality of finders keepers. I think a lot of people grew up being taught that was the rule of the day.
But the law says different.
If you find a bag full of money and don't report it then hopefully you don't get arrested. Or have a mafia crew looking for you.
Quote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonIsnt there a difference between finding $1200 on the ground and finding $1300 on a machine?
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
link to original post
No there isn't any difference.
First you just made an assumption that a player's card was used. Bad assumption.
A) plenty of people play slots without a player card or just forget to insert the card, perhaps they left it at home and don't want to wait on line. They feel it makes them unlucky, etc. Does a person give up their rights to money left on a slot machine because they didn't have a player card inserted?
B) The other issue is people sometimes accidentally play on a player card that someone before them left in the slot. Does the casino hand the wrong person the money in that situation?
No, it all comes down to cameras. The players card isn't supposed to be used for identification purposes.
And if all they rely on is cameras why would it be any different if the cameras picked up who dropped the money lost on the gaming floor?
link to original post
Okay then, they have the cameras to find the culprit.
link to original post
Look I am not arguing the morality of finders keepers. I think a lot of people grew up being taught that was the rule of the day.
But the law says different.
If you find a bag full of money and don't report it then hopefully you don't get arrested. Or have a mafia crew looking for you.
link to original post
I didnt make any moral judgments either. I just told what happened at Red Rock.
No one asked me if the slot attendant was correct. But somehow the messenger gets killed.
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: darkozQuote: AlanMendelsonIsnt there a difference between finding $1200 on the ground and finding $1300 on a machine?
Here's the biggest difference:
A players card and cameras can identify the owner of the money left on the machine.
By the way, years ago I saw this actually happen at Caesars. A player got a handpay and thought his machine was locked and went to the men's room.
It wasn't locked. When he returned his credits were cashed out. He immediately yelled for help. Security and attendants went scrambling but I dont know what the outcome was... if they found the person who cashed it out or not.
It was also around $1300.
This high limit room was the "mini dome room" at Caesars. It was crowded but no one saw anything. I was playing two machines over, and I saw nothing.
Frankly, who would? Each player is looking at their screen pressing buttons.
link to original post
No there isn't any difference.
First you just made an assumption that a player's card was used. Bad assumption.
A) plenty of people play slots without a player card or just forget to insert the card, perhaps they left it at home and don't want to wait on line. They feel it makes them unlucky, etc. Does a person give up their rights to money left on a slot machine because they didn't have a player card inserted?
B) The other issue is people sometimes accidentally play on a player card that someone before them left in the slot. Does the casino hand the wrong person the money in that situation?
No, it all comes down to cameras. The players card isn't supposed to be used for identification purposes.
And if all they rely on is cameras why would it be any different if the cameras picked up who dropped the money lost on the gaming floor?
link to original post
Okay then, they have the cameras to find the culprit.
link to original post
Look I am not arguing the morality of finders keepers. I think a lot of people grew up being taught that was the rule of the day.
But the law says different.
If you find a bag full of money and don't report it then hopefully you don't get arrested. Or have a mafia crew looking for you.
link to original post
I didnt make any moral judgments either. I just told what happened at Red Rock.
No one asked me if the slot attendant was correct. But somehow the messenger gets killed.
link to original post
That's how you see this,eh?
