Devlinstorm
Devlinstorm
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February 16th, 2022 at 7:51:37 AM permalink
Royal Flush 500 to 1
Straight Flush 50 to 1
Four of a Kind 10 to 1
Full House 3 to 1
Flush 3 to 2
Straight 1 to 1
All other Push

are the typical payouts on the blind that being said its supposed to be like 2.8% house edge with basic strategy. but what happens when you change the flush payout to 2/1

It has come to my attention a casino in Florida is doing this. ( they have really bad trips rules and this may be the compensation) .

Any math types wanna break it down? or would the wizard of odds help?
100xOdds
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February 16th, 2022 at 11:00:56 AM permalink
Quote: Devlinstorm

Royal Flush 500 to 1
Straight Flush 50 to 1
Four of a Kind 10 to 1
Full House 3 to 1
Flush 3 to 2
Straight 1 to 1
All other Push

are the typical payouts on the blind that being said its supposed to be like 2.8% house edge with basic strategy. but what happens when you change the flush payout to 2/1

It has come to my attention a casino in Florida is doing this. ( they have really bad trips rules and this may be the compensation) .

Any math types wanna break it down? or would the wizard of odds help?
link to original post

you sure it's 2:1 for Flush for the blind bet?

In FL, the TRIPS paytable seems great (ie: 10:1 for a Boat) except you dont get paid unless you win. (so it's like the Blind bet but with a HIGH house edge.)

If the Blind's Flush pays 2:1 and you dont have to bet Trips to get it, then it lowers the HE a little.
no idea by how much tho.

BTW- How are new members able to create threads?
Thought you needed 10 posts before having that ability?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Devlinstorm
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February 16th, 2022 at 11:19:08 AM permalink
not sure how i can 100% but here is the pay table i seen on stream. /watch?v=kKGEIOTUt9U

not my vid not promoting it .... but look at that blind pay table its 2/1 for flush
Devlinstorm
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February 16th, 2022 at 11:22:19 AM permalink
Sorry I saw a youtube vid with a game at oxford downs and it had the pay table as fowllows.
500
50
10
3
2
1
push
teddys
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February 16th, 2022 at 11:32:09 AM permalink
According to the WIz's return tables, paying 2-1 on a flush on a player winning hand (extra 0.5 bet paid), adds 1.95% to the return (or subtracts from the house edge, if you prefer).

Someone should probably check my math on that. I did a literal back of the envelope calculation.

Basic house edge of the game is 2.185% with optimal strategy.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Devlinstorm
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February 16th, 2022 at 11:51:21 AM permalink
im i correct to assume then this would be close to the lowest house edge game?
Devlinstorm
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February 16th, 2022 at 12:00:33 PM permalink
adds 1.95% to the return


Basic house edge of the game is 2.185% with optimal strategy. =.0235% house edge. or close to 1 quarter of 1%
Dieter
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100xOddsBegoodJohnny44
February 16th, 2022 at 12:20:25 PM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

BTW- How are new members able to create threads?
Thought you needed 10 posts before having that ability?
link to original post



I think you thunk wrong. New members need links blessed.



... like that.
May the cards fall in your favor.
teddys
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February 16th, 2022 at 12:34:51 PM permalink
Quote: Devlinstorm

im i correct to assume then this would be close to the lowest house edge game?
link to original post

It would be a safe assumption, assuming they didn't have any great video poker or really good blackjack rules.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
100xOdds
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February 16th, 2022 at 12:44:03 PM permalink
Quote: Devlinstorm

adds 1.95% to the return


Basic house edge of the game is 2.185% with optimal strategy. =.0235% house edge. or close to 1 quarter of 1%
link to original post

where is this casino in FL?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
charliepatrick
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February 16th, 2022 at 3:49:39 PM permalink
You can see how often a flush is paid out by looking for the probabilities for payouts ending in ".5" on https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/ . Then dividing by 2 (because the additional paid out is .5) means about 1.286% is subtracted from the 2.185%. If so this seems a good game (but assumes you play perfect strategy!).
teddys
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February 17th, 2022 at 9:35:08 AM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

You can see how often a flush is paid out by looking for the probabilities for payouts ending in ".5" on https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/ . Then dividing by 2 (because the additional paid out is .5) means about 1.286% is subtracted from the 2.185%. If so this seems a good game (but assumes you play perfect strategy!).
link to original post

Does that work? I added 0.5 to every flush payout (there are 6), and recalculated the numbers. I got 1.95% benefit.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
charliepatrick
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February 17th, 2022 at 10:22:07 AM permalink
Quote: teddys

[...Does that work? I added 0.5 to every flush payout (there are 6), and recalculated the numbers. I got 1.95% benefit.
link to original post

Yes - I dragged and dropped the info from wizard's page into a spreadsheet and got -0.899222%. (When you're adding 1/2, don't use TRUNC(x+.5,0); if x is negative as it changes -2 to -1!)
Devlinstorm
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February 17th, 2022 at 10:55:53 AM permalink
I added 0.5 to every flush payout (there are 6), and recalculated the numbers. I got a 1.95% benefit.


Is that the consensus ? 1.95% benefit?
ksdjdj
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charliepatrick
February 17th, 2022 at 2:04:30 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

You can see how often a flush is paid out by looking for the probabilities for payouts ending in ".5" on https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/ . Then dividing by 2 (because the additional paid out is .5) means about 1.286% is subtracted from the 2.185%. If so this seems a good game (but assumes you play perfect strategy!).
link to original post


I agree with the above “1.286% figure” (I got ~1.25%*** ).

*** important: I just roughly added the flush chances up in my head and multiplied by 0.5 .

—-
Sent from phone
100xOdds
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February 19th, 2022 at 7:02:14 AM permalink
So where is this casino in fl?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Devlinstorm
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February 19th, 2022 at 7:19:22 AM permalink
Oxford downs its between Tampa and ft Lauderdale
Joeman
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February 19th, 2022 at 8:01:25 AM permalink
Quote: Devlinstorm

Oxford downs its between Tampa and ft Lauderdale
link to original post

When I ask Google Maps, it shows Oxford Downs to be just south of Ocala, near The Villages. Are there two locations?

Interestingly, I just checked out Ocala/Gainesville Poker's*** website, and they actually publish their rules & payouts for UTH.

Quote: Ocala Gainesville Poker

BLIND
Royal Flush 200 to 1
Straight Flush 50 to 1
Quads 10 to 1
Full house 3 to 1
Flush 2 to 1
Straight 1 to 1
All Other Push



You can see that, indeed, the flush payout is 2 to 1. However, they have reduced the Royal payout to 200 to 1.

Devlinstorm, did you notice if the Royal at Oxford Downs was 200:1 or 500:1?

Ocala Gainesville Poker is a different card room located, oddly enough, between Gainesville and Ocala. It used to be my haunt 30 years ago when it was Ocala Jai Alai. Back then, it was literally in the middle of a cow pasture.
"Dealer has 'rock'... Pay 'paper!'"
100xOdds
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February 19th, 2022 at 8:11:51 AM permalink
Quote: Joeman

Quote: Devlinstorm

Oxford downs its between Tampa and ft Lauderdale
link to original post

When I ask Google Maps, it shows Oxford Downs to be just south of Ocala, near The Villages. Are there two locations?

Interestingly, I just checked out Ocala/Gainesville Poker's*** website, and they actually publish their rules & payouts for UTH.

Quote: Ocala Gainesville Poker

BLIND
Royal Flush 200 to 1
Straight Flush 50 to 1
Quads 10 to 1
Full house 3 to 1
Flush 2 to 1
Straight 1 to 1
All Other Push



You can see that, indeed, the flush payout is 2 to 1. However, they have reduced the Royal payout to 200 to 1.

Devlinstorm, did you notice if the Royal at Oxford Downs was 200:1 or 500:1?

Ocala Gainesville Poker is a different card room located, oddly enough, between Gainesville and Ocala. It used to be my haunt 30 years ago when it was Ocala Jai Alai. Back then, it was literally in the middle of a cow pasture.

link to original post

what's the math now with 200:1 royal?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
Devlinstorm
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February 19th, 2022 at 8:16:12 AM permalink
Watch the video earlier in the thread it's clearly a 500x royal payoff.

I just googled oxford downs and got a website
Devlinstorm
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February 19th, 2022 at 8:30:13 AM permalink
Ya I miss spoke earlier it's between Tampa and Jacksonville south of ocala
aceside
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February 19th, 2022 at 8:58:01 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

Quote: 100xOdds

BTW- How are new members able to create threads?
Thought you needed 10 posts before having that ability?
link to original post



I think you thunk wrong. New members need links blessed.



... like that.
link to original post


I watched this video and found it interesting. These people were not playing Wizard’s basic strategy but self claimed them as professional players.

Also interesting, they says that a player’s King+3 off suit should bet 2x after flop when there is a pair of 6s in the flop three cards. Is this the correct strategy?
Devlinstorm
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February 19th, 2022 at 9:16:01 AM permalink
They didn't play particularly well imo

I'd refer to Stephen how flop strategy on discount gambling sometimes I believe it can be correct to bet on your high card king on paired boards
teddys
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February 19th, 2022 at 2:38:45 PM permalink
Quote: aceside

Also interesting, they says that a player’s King+3 off suit should bet 2x after flop when there is a pair of 6s in the flop three cards. Is this the correct strategy?
link to original post

No. You only bet a king kicker on the flop when a pair of aces hit the board, or if you're drawing to a straight (gutshot or otherwise). Flush draw, too.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
teddys
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February 19th, 2022 at 2:42:39 PM permalink
Quote: Devlinstorm

I added 0.5 to every flush payout (there are 6), and recalculated the numbers. I got a 1.95% benefit.


Is that the consensus ? 1.95% benefit?
link to original post

No. It's 1.286% benefit. I calculated wrongly.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
aceside
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March 17th, 2022 at 9:19:31 PM permalink
I noticed some opportunities on this game. Some dealers do not know the paytable very well and thus make mistakes in their paying out. Particularly, these dealers mistakenly pay out the "Blind" bet when the hands are a tie at a straight or better. Can somebody help calculate the player edge gain from these dealers?
teddys
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March 18th, 2022 at 9:58:39 AM permalink
Quote: aceside

I noticed some opportunities on this game. Some dealers do not know the paytable very well and thus make mistakes in their paying out. Particularly, these dealers mistakenly pay out the "Blind" bet when the hands are a tie at a straight or better. Can somebody help calculate the player edge gain from these dealers?
link to original post

It's a huge advantage but it doesn't happen that often. Dealers are quickly corrected. A lot of dealers will forget to push back the ante, too, and pay it. Overall, dealer mistakes long-term have made a non-insignificant contribution to my E.V. on this game.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
aceside
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March 18th, 2022 at 10:07:29 AM permalink
Nice! I noticed that part too. I still hope someone put these two player’s edge gains into numbers so that I can be more confident.
itseddieT
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April 20th, 2022 at 1:44:13 AM permalink
I found a game that pays 3 to 1 on a flush for the blind bet. My calculations yielded a player edge of about 1.5%. Can someone confirm?
odiousgambit
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April 20th, 2022 at 3:51:47 AM permalink
Quote: itseddieT

I found a game that pays 3 to 1 on a flush for the blind bet. My calculations yielded a player edge of about 1.5%. Can someone confirm?
link to original post

the wizard has a return table for this game. Substitute your changed return in 3 places, as he has broken it down for large, medium, and small raises. All the other is the same, so add it up with the changes.

I might have time to get to this to do it myself or not. I'd need to study a bit at how the normal return is done for each.

Find the return table close to the top at:
https://wizardofodds.com/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/

PS: I sure would look hard to find if they made some other change to compensate. And if the table isn't attracting players of a 'certain type', why not?
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!”   She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
rsactuary
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April 20th, 2022 at 5:34:06 AM permalink
Quote: itseddieT

I found a game that pays 3 to 1 on a flush for the blind bet. My calculations yielded a player edge of about 1.5%. Can someone confirm?
link to original post



Yes, that's about right. But as posted above, it's likely there's a cut somewhere else.
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