Perpetual COMP machine

Let's revisit comp formulas.

From what I've learned comps for machine players are usually one-tenth of one percent of coin in. This means players on typical full pay VP games such as 8/5 Bonus and 9/6 Jacks need more than comps to be +EV. And yes there are such things that can bring these players to +EV.

But table players... it's not that easy.

We know about the problems rating table players. Do floormen accurately track their play? Do their bets vary? What happens during a shift change? There are so many problems rating table play with comps.

Mdawg mentioned $2500 comps on $25000. Sure its possible if you played long enough. It's also possible if you're a good customer and your return trip is expected.

I've been comped "in advance" because the host simply expected my future action.

The bottom line is anything is possible.

But in the case I wrote about a player didnt meet the requirement of four hours of play per day. Not getting comps after losing $25k is also possible.

That is too simplistic Alan to state that anything may happen. There are in fact certain formulas for comps, and I stated them. And yes, I stated that there are deviations from these formulas at times. Pit crews do their best to track play accurately, and at places like Resorts World Vegas, tracking is now done automatically electronically for at least Baccarat and Blackjack. I have cashed out large sums including lately, for wins and believe me if the pit did not verify the wins those 5K chips would not be getting cashed.

You don't know if that person did or did not get comp'ed in the end for his $25K blowout loss, all you know is that there was an issue over it.

Quote: darkoz

Quote: MDawg

Quote: AxelWolf

He has said on more than one occasion that he doesn't play with an advantage and even went so far as to poopoo those who rely on mathematical advantages to win.

link to original post

Please provide the quotes for when I said that on more than one occasion, no less. Emphases added.

Quote: darkoz

For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge.

Then for about a year he claimed he was an advantage player with a hidden edge he couldn't discuss unless someone wanted to watch him for $50,000 if memory serves.

Then he described an advantage that involves guessing the flow of the cards, said description not considered an advantage by any literature written on WOO and probably derided as useless systems on your other site.

Currently he claims to have "perpetual comps" (his words) while never showing any losses to Casinos in essence claiming casinos will comp forever even when a player consistently wins at negative -ev games. No suspicion, no questions (in fact his hosts compliment him on the fact he always wins).

He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay and he described one trip where the casino said he rated for full RFB but not for freeplay!

link to original post

Please provide quotes to support each of these assertions. You are asserting affirmative claims by me not implied ones, so you should have no problem direct quoting to support what you claim I said. Emphases added.

Quote: sabre

It is a stone cold fact that other members of this forum have claimed to have paid 6% withdrawal fees to withdraw thousands of dollars to play baccarat in a manner encouraged by MDawg over phone conversation. If that manner was +EV, then that poster never alluded to +EV play once. They alluded to -EV play based on progressions, card flow, and other voodoo repeatedly. Dozens of times in fact.

If MDawg is playing -EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play like him then he deserves derision

If MDawg is playing +EV and tells others to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees to play -EV then it's frankly much worse.

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming it's the former.

If he's playing +EV and he's encouraging others to pay exorbitant withdrawal fees to play +EV then I honestly have no idea what this whole dog and pony show is about

link to original post

Those are some serious accusations. Please provide the quotes to back up what you claim. You seem to be claiming that I "tell others" to withdraw thousands at exorbitant fees. I actually recall writing more than once about advising people never to gamble with money they cannot afford to lose, and also recall stating specifically that once a person is standing in line at the cashier waiting for a cash advance against a credit card, that s/he is in real trouble.



There is another member here whose posts are blocked to me I logged out and glanced at a few of his posts. Indecipherable: I don't know if it's speak to text problems, or just plain poor grammar but I believe there are statements from that one too that he should back up with direct quotes.

Quote: Wizard

Quote: billryan

Has he ever claimed to play with an edge? link to original post

I think he does claim that. Let's see what he says.

link to original post

So it's incumbent on me to state that I play with an advantage and describe the advantage, or to state that I play with an advantage?

link to original post

There are enough people who read and back up what I said that I don't need to peruse hundreds of pages of your threads looking for your statements.

Here is just one from this current thread where you basically say you receive comps with incurring no losses.

Quote: MDawg

After we had been here a couple months, some of my friends started saying, "You could probably just stay there forever without spending a dime." At the time, I thought, maybe, maybe not, but right now - actually - it seems that I could. Would want to, is of course a different matter.

link to original post

link to original post

You have misquoted me then, you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses. That is not the same thing as my stating that my over all net is positive. I have posted about losing sessions. Indeed you yourself even once referred to how I lost a large sum at a casino and that that casino didn't give a rat's *** (to use your exact language as best I may recall) about that I won at another casino, as far as giving a loss rebate or other comps.

Additionally, I do not recall ever stating affirmatively that I do not play with an advantage. So, where is your proof and AxelWolf's that I stated this? because the way you state the above it makes me appear as though I flipflop between different contentions. Just because I do not say or did not say for a period of time that I play with an advantage does not mean that I specifically stated that I do not play with an advantage. For about a year he claimed he absolutely was not an advantage player and had no edge. I believe you are again putting words in my mouth.

Also, where is your proof that He also says he doesn't get offered any Freeplay. I have posted about getting promotional chips many times. Indeed, I have directly pointed out before that you are completely in the wrong to claim that I said this, and yet here you are repeating it again. There was one time that I posted about getting promotional chips in the past and then stated that I did not recall getting any recently, and then came back later and referred to a post from the not so distant past that did in fact refer to the promotional chips. However to say that I say that I do not get offered any Freeplay, is a mischaracterization of what I have said.

Over all, I believe that what you are doing here is misquoting or mischaracterizing what I have said directly, in order to make me look inconsistent. If I am wrong in saying that, please provide the direct quotes of mine to support what you are saying about me.

From second page of this thread you state the only way to sustain the long term comps this whole thread is about is to have extended play WITHOUT LOSING AT ALL (I capitalized the place you say it in the quote below).

You then double down in the very next paragraph by saying not only are you not losing at all but winning.

Quote: MDawg

  I created this thread about how comps work - in fact casinos give only 10% of an actual loss, but 35-40% of a theoretical loss, for comps.  If I were losing, I'd have to be dumping somewhere in the neighborhood of $2.5M to have had them comp these six months in Vegas - obviously I'm not losing like that. The only realistic way to sustain a long term casino stay is via extended play WITHOUT LOSING AT ALL or without losing much.

ACTUALLY, I AM WINNING, but in any case, almost all of our comps are based on theoretical loss.  Realistically, there is pretty much no way anyone could stay in Vegas an extended period unless he kept playing and avoided blow outs.  Blow outs lead to minimal comps.  Extended play leads to real comps. Which is why I view this as a perpetual comp machine 😆 since it requires no cash input, just cash availability, to keep going.

Again, I never said that I do not lose - I post losing sessions. I have posted losing session(s) in the six figure range either here or at another forum (might have been during my WOV suspension, so, might have been posted elsewhere). I even said that "almost all" of my comps are based on theo loss - so, what other kind of comps are there? Answer: Based on actual loss.

And again, you yourself even referred to a time when I lost big (mid five figures) at one casino and then paid it off with winnings from another, so you know very well that I lose sometimes.

The net over all ahead is not the same as saying I never lose. No cash input = no net cash input. You of all people should understand the concept of "net ahead" - in that you say that you lose at slots but make it up in "comps" (freeplay).

As well, when I said "The only realistic way to sustain a long term casino stay is via extended play WITHOUT LOSING AT ALL or without losing much." that was a general statement which happens to be true.

I believe your intent in posting whatever you posted was to make me look inconsistent. Where is the backup?

Quote: MDawg

Again, I never said that I do not lose - I post losing sessions. I have posted losing session(s) in the six figure range either here or at another forum (might have been during my WOV suspension, so, might have been posted elsewhere).

The net over all ahead is not the same as saying I never lose. You of all people should understand the concept of "net ahead" - in that you say that you lose at slots but make it up in "comps" (freeplay).

I believe your intent in posting whatever you posted was to make me look inconsistent. Where is the backup?

link to original post

Obviously when someone says they never lose the literal interpretation is understood not to mean individual spins, hands or sessions.

Does anyone really believe if someone claims to never lose that 100 out of 100 spins at roulette are being won? Obviously everyone would interpret the "I never lose" comment as being overall losses vs wins.

It is now you who are trying to twist meanings. You have made claims before that you are not a loser and that overall play you are consistently a winner.

No, you never claimed to win EVERY SINGLE HAND OF BACCARAT PLAYED NOR EVERY SESSION. But you have claimed to never be a loser on an extended trip.

Again, you have misquoted me then, or mischaracterized what I have said: you stated that I have stated that I am never showing any losses.

As well, you have not provided the backup for where I said for about a year, affirmatively, that I do not play with any advantage.

Nor have you provided the backup for that I have stated that I never get any promotional chips. Like I said, one time I forgot about some promo chips I had received in the not so distant past, but I have never stated that I "never" get promotional chips!
What are these? I found 'em on the ground? That's a pic of some promo chips I received at some point during the past six months; by no means all of the promo chips I have received recently.

I don't take pics of everything, but if you like I'll show you thousands in promo chips I receive over the course of the next weeks.

FOR THE MODS

Buried within the very first post of this thread:

Quote: MDawg

For example, on a recent trip I played in the area of around seventy some (under eighty) hours at an average of $1200. a hand, at table games, and earned just about $80,000. in theoretical loss., and notwithstanding that I won over fifty grand on the trip, this theo loss against 40%, earned me over $30,000. in comps.

How is this thread not just a new discussion of MDawg hidden adventures?

Already by page ten there are the same challenges being made and similar threats of multiple suspension that made the original MDawg adventures such a hotbed of contention that it needed to be hidden?

You guys made it that. I posted an example of how theo loss works. "For example."
I post real world examples of real world events in tune with the topic, and you claim that this is somehow wrong? Alan posted an example of his friend who was challenged on the -25K blowout loss comp.

But now that you guys have turned it into a discussion of WHAT MDAWG CLAIMS: I am asking you to post the backup for what you claim MDawg claims/ has said.