Perpetual COMP machine

I suppose debit card withdrawals without any fees (or close to any fees) would not be bad. But I am sure you would agree that credit card advances are a bad thing and should be avoided, especially in a casino.

Quote: MDawg

If you play high limit table games the average bet x hours x house edge equals a nice theo loss.

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I don't play Baccarat or blackjack. Aren't the house edges at those games about 1% or less. So 15% of 1% is 0.15%

Back to the one-tenth of one percent of play.

Are we communicating? 35% of theo loss is comp'ed. Are you calculating it at 15%?

Quote: MDawg

I suppose debit card withdrawals without any fees (or close to any fees) would not be bad. But I am sure you would agree that credit card advances are a bad thing and should be avoided, especially in a casino.

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At Red Rock you can use a debit card for up to $3000. The ATM fee is $3.99 I believe.

If you wanted to take out $5000 for example you must use a cash advance even if it's a debit and not a credit card.

There are cash advance fees because they exceed the $3000 limit.

Red Rock rebates those fees.

Quote: MDawg

Are we communicating? 35% of theo loss is comp'ed. Are you calculating it at 15%?

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I'm using 15% as a conservative number because it comes darn close to the one-tenth of one percent of play that I've been using.

I can understand a comp rate of 35% of theo for losing players. I cant believe they'd apply that comp rate to winning players.

Quote: AlanMendelson

At Red Rock you can use a debit card for up to $3000. The ATM fee is $3.99 I believe.

If you wanted to take out $5000 for example you must use a cash advance even if it's a debit and not a credit card.

There are cash advance fees because they exceed the $3000 limit.

Red Rock rebates those fees.

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But the bank starts charging interest the moment a cash advance is withdrawn, and at a higher rate than for purchases. If, we are talking about a credit card that is. All bad.

If we are talking about a debit card, I have never heard of cash advance fees from a bank for a debit card?? Why would there be "cash advance" fees on a debit card? I don't believe there is any such thing as a cash advance on a debit card in the first place - it is all cash, withdrawn, from your bank. There is no advance.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I can understand a comp rate of 35% of theo for losing players. I cant believe they'd apply that comp rate to winning players.

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Well whether you understand or believe it or not, that's the way it is.

The whole purpose of the two tier comp system is to give 10% of actual loss, 35% of theo loss, whichever ends up higher, to the player.

They don't tell players "you only get comps if you lose" - all Vegas would be up in arms! nor do they lower or change the theo comp rate percentage depending on whether the player won, lost or drew.

The whole concept of comps for theo loss is that you are risking those sums at the tables. In exchange for that risk, you are awarded (rewarded with) comps.

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

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Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.

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It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.

Quote: AxelWolf

DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.

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Wow, AxelWolf and I standing shoulder to shoulder on something. The obstinacy of the Great DarkOz!

Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Dieter

Quote: AxelWolf

So you wouldn't buy a liftime of free play for 51% of face value?

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Personally, I'd rather pay 20%.

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It's not really paying 20%, its earning it at 20%.

That 20% comes with multiple risk factors, multiple steps, much more time, work, and investment for picking that up(bus passes cost money). There's a limited supply, pitfalls, and no guarantee it will keep going at 20%. There's zero reason not to do BOTH... unless all your money is being tied up and you can't afford to buy it.

I guarantee you one would make far more money much faster if they could buy big chunks of free over having to earn it.

I think you would find it difficult to find any smart serious Advantage Players that understand free play who wouldn't buy large amounts of free play for 51% of face value. DarkOz will never admit he was wrong and how dumb of a statement it was at the time he made it.

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First off my statement wasn't dumb.

Your attempt to validate your own argument involves a ridiculous hypothetical about purchasing a lifetime of freeplay. That term alone is nonsensical. I'm in my fifties. I hope to live a few more decades but could die tomorrow so what lifetime are you referring to.

You quantified it by turning it into two million so I think you are asking would I pay one million dollars for two million in Freeplay.

I can earn (since that is the term you prefer) five million in freeplay for the same million using my methods so yeah, it wouldn't be smart of me to accept that deal especially if you are saying that's over my lifetime.

My one million turned into five million in freeplay wouldn't take me a lifetime to play through and make profit.

Also to make the deal appear to be in your favor you said assume no danger of the casino shutting off offers. Again that is a hypothetical that's unrealistic but to make it fair, then my ability to earn five million in freeplay would also have to be free of any danger of casino renege. So same solution. It's smarter for me to demand a better deal or stick with what I got.

It sounds as if you believe smart AP's accept any offer as long as there is an edge regardless of how small the edge and regardless of whether their money and time could be better invested elsewhere.

That doesn't sound so smart to me.