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ThatDonGuy
ThatDonGuy
Joined: Jun 22, 2011
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December 20th, 2020 at 1:05:07 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

I have time.... ananlysis of your post....

The first thing that stands out to me is that when trying to compliment teliot, you did so while insulting another forum member. If I was teliot I'd be turned off immediately.



No offense was taken by me. My degree is in computer science and not mathematics (nor statistics) for a reason. Okay, I almost got a second bachelor's degree in applied mathematics, but that's another story.
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
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December 20th, 2020 at 2:13:38 PM permalink
Quote: ThatDonGuy

No offense was taken by me. My degree is in computer science and not mathematics (nor statistics) for a reason. Okay, I almost got a second bachelor's degree in applied mathematics, but that's another story.



I think you're incredibly talented in mathematics for not having a degree in the field ;)
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
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December 20th, 2020 at 10:44:38 PM permalink
Quote: unJon

You failed to read step 4 again. 😂



It's funny because your right & I didn't read your step 4 because I thought you were talking about the forum rules lol. Yes, you are correct and it is an extremely difficult process of solving each number of permutations within permutations. But when I say it's not brute force possible, I am mainly talking about hardware capability. You need to start using a portion of Google's supercomputer to get just the 5 card probabilities from that method. You wouldn't say Go is brute force possible even though it technically is if you had a Jupiter Brain.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 2
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December 21st, 2020 at 8:05:31 AM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

But when I say it's not brute force possible, I am mainly talking about hardware capability. You need to start using a portion of Google's supercomputer to get just the 5 card probabilities from that method. You wouldn't say Go is brute force possible even though it technically is if you had a Jupiter Brain.



Go was attacked by MCTS AI very successfully. It was not brute force. I have written MCTS for some games base on the work by Markus Enzenberger, the German computer scientist.

I still fail to understand what is hard about 5-card probabilities. As far as I can tell. nobody else here agrees with you that classifying hands and determining dominance is a difficult problem. I wish you or someone else would try to explain what exactly is the hard problem. You simply asserting grandiose claims is not very compelling.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
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December 21st, 2020 at 9:15:13 AM permalink
USpaper... Apology if you already posted this stuff.... but what are your 'official qualifications'....? What school did you graduate from with what degree? What jobs have you had in the field we are discussing? What successes have you had already? Do you have a 'regular' job now? (MANY of the game designers on this forum have 'real' jobs first, and the game design is a secondary interest...)

Not that the lack of any degree/job/success means you cannot succeed in the future!
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 807
December 21st, 2020 at 10:11:12 AM permalink
Quote: Mental

Go was attacked by MCTS AI very successfully. It was not brute force. I have written MCTS for some games base on the work by Markus Enzenberger, the German computer scientist.

I still fail to understand what is hard about 5-card probabilities. As far as I can tell. nobody else here agrees with you that classifying hands and determining dominance is a difficult problem. I wish you or someone else would try to explain what exactly is the hard problem. You simply asserting grandiose claims is not very compelling.



The problem with my explanation is that it won't solve your understanding since my perspective is going to be from a mathematical one since I'm not a computer programmer :/

I'll I can say is to believe me when I tell you that I've worked with some of the best programmers on this very task and even with my advanced algorithm for evaluating the hand rankings, Jim's super computer still could not do the 6 card outcome combinations.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a better way to discover the problems difficultly without actually attempting to solve it :/ Here is my recommendation, try solving the 5 card probabilities (remember that you don't have the hand ranking order & the 4 card ranking order is not the same as the 5 card ranking order). But here is the catch, instead of going from least likely to most likely, try going the other way around since you will definitely run into issues going from the bottom up ;)
Math is the only true form of knowledge
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 807
December 21st, 2020 at 10:22:09 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

USpaper... Apology if you already posted this stuff.... but what are your 'official qualifications'....? What school did you graduate from with what degree? What jobs have you had in the field we are discussing? What successes have you had already? Do you have a 'regular' job now? (MANY of the game designers on this forum have 'real' jobs first, and the game design is a secondary interest...)

Not that the lack of any degree/job/success means you cannot succeed in the future!



I am going to say something that might come off very offensive but I 100% believe in what I am saying. If I were to have come from a game design job I would not be 1/10th the game designer I am today! The problem with jobs is that you end up getting little job experience related to game design unless you get a job as the lead game designer. I'm sorry but experience is far more valuable than money so settling for an entry-level game design job is just going to set your game design skills back 10 years until you actually start learning how to implement successful game design skills. From the very beginning, I refused to ever work as an entry-level game designer because I know I wouldn't be learning the important skills that a lead game designer needs to know. Not only that but a company literally stiffens your learning ability since they want to shape your ideas to their corporate interests. The fact that I hadn't been designing slot machines for companies is the very reason why I realized nobody was focused on improving the actual game!!! I never would have realized that if I was conditioned from being a slot game designer, because you guys seriously have tunnel vision & I am so grateful I chose to go my own way because I believed from the very beginning that I chose to enter the casino game industry that the industry was weak and that I could put the time into understanding the casino industry better than the leading casino game designers of today & tomorrow.
Math is the only true form of knowledge
Mental
Mental
Joined: Dec 10, 2018
  • Threads: 2
  • Posts: 128
December 21st, 2020 at 12:06:34 PM permalink
Quote: USpapergames

The problem with my explanation is that it won't solve your understanding since my perspective is going to be from a mathematical one since I'm not a computer programmer :/

I'll I can say is to believe me when I tell you that I've worked with some of the best programmers on this very task and even with my advanced algorithm for evaluating the hand rankings, Jim's super computer still could not do the 6 card outcome combinations.

Unfortunately, I can't think of a better way to discover the problems difficultly without actually attempting to solve it :/ Here is my recommendation, try solving the 5 card probabilities (remember that you don't have the hand ranking order & the 4 card ranking order is not the same as the 5 card ranking order). But here is the catch, instead of going from least likely to most likely, try going the other way around since you will definitely run into issues going from the bottom up ;)



Maybe your programmers are not as good as you think?

I can solve your bottom-up challenge without doing any programming. The most common 6-card hand is Quark. I define a Quark as a hand of any six cards. Since every 6-card hand is Quark, no other hand is more common unless the exact definition of that other hand is redundant with the definition of Quark. This means the Quark is the highest ranked hand. The Quark dominates every other possible hand. The probability of Quark is 100%. The probability of any other 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6-card hand is zero. All other hands with a definition more specific than the Quark have equal rank.

QED.
USpapergames
USpapergames
Joined: Jun 23, 2020
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 807
December 21st, 2020 at 12:34:29 PM permalink
Quote: Mental

Maybe your programmers are not as good as you think?

I can solve your bottom-up challenge without doing any programming. The most common 6-card hand is Quark. I define a Quark as a hand of any six cards. Since every 6-card hand is Quark, no other hand is more common unless the exact definition of that other hand is redundant with the definition of Quark. This means the Quark is the highest ranked hand. The Quark dominates every other possible hand. The probability of Quark is 100%. The probability of any other 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6-card hand is zero. All other hands with a definition more specific than the Quark have equal rank.

QED.



🤣 very funny. We are just going to talk about the royal deck's hand rankings for now but I do like the idea of having a hand ranking for any combination of 6 cards ;)
Math is the only true form of knowledge

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