Playing UTH blind

Hi,

My name is P3t3r P3n and this is my first post. In fact I have joined the forum today. For one purpose only actually. I have a gambling question. But before I state my question, I would like to apologize for my so-so English. It is not my native tongue, I am from Holland.

My question is about the casino game Ultimate Texas Hold'Em (UTH). The wizard has explained the game and its optimal strategy at "/games/ultimate-texas-hold-em/". In casinos in Holland it is allowed to play the game blind (no cards seen), i.e. you make your bets on ALL three bet types (ante/blind/play) before the cards are dealt. This is a nice (and likely very profitable) service from the casino for a gambler who wants to go to the bathroom or for a smoke, without missing a hand.

It is even allowed to choose your bet size on the play-bet-type. An example: Peter goes for a smoke and tells the dealer to keep playing his box for the minimum bets. On a 5-euro-table that would be three bets of 5-euro:
- 5-euro on ante (obligated)
- 5-euro on blind (obligated)
- 5-euro on play (1x 5-euro)

As a gambler you can also choose the 2x, 3x or 4x wager on the play-bet-type, when you play blind. So another example: John is going to make a phonecall away from the table, so he puts in all his bets before the cards are dealt:
- 5-euro on ante (obligated)
- 5-euro on blind (obligated)
- 20-euro on play (4x 5-euro)

I hope I have explained this situation clearly. The gambler has no influence on the game when he plays blind, he just gambles with a random hand. Folding is not an option, because he already put in his bet on the play-bet-type. So his hand always goes to showdown with the dealers holding.

My question (finally!): I know the house edge is 2,185%. What would the house edge be in these 4 situations:
- player A always plays blind with 1x on the play-bet-type
- player B always plays blind with 2x on the play-bet-type
- player C always plays blind with 3x on the play-bet-type
- player D always plays blind with 4x on the play-bet-type

I can imagine the house edge would double, tripple or even goes sky high. Who knows? The wizard? Anybody else?

Thanks in advance,
P3t3r P3n

I play one place that allows a 2nd hand if you play it blind, but requires 3x or 4x on the Play. I played another in the past that only allowed 1x on the play for a second blind hand. I've seen both work, both not work, but I do like a second hand, so I've played blind anyway.

Not an expert, just play this game a lot. Perhaps the math guys will Calc it for you.

In my opinion, 2x would be best if you're playing blind at all (optimal to look, of course). If you look at WizardofOdds page again, using optimal strategy, the average Play wager is 2.152252. That's so close to 2, I would think you're giving up relatively little.

In my experience, though, 3x has worked best of my available options, and might be ok in this as well. The winning game depends on the player being very aggressive, and so you're picking up that last .15 .

People lose more money by underbetting their good hands (shorting themselves) and not playing enough of them, than they do by being over-aggressive (except on foolish 1x non-folds), again in my experience.

I would never play UTH blind. The house edge will certainly increase as you take skilled mathematical decisions that are best for the player out of the game. That game you have 3 options for information:

1) Your hole cards
2) The 3 flop cards
3) The 2 "river" cards

Every single one of those you take away from yourself ups the house edge. Thus, taking all 3 away will massively hurt the player. I have not run any numbers, just an educated guess... I'd imagine the HE goes to at least 10%, maybe upwards of 20%.

As shown by the wizard the blind bet is a 31% loser. The ante bet is a 16% loser. You must make up for this on the play bet. Betting blind would give you a break even over a period of time. You are only assured of going home a loser. You MUST win a lot on the play bet by playing proper strategy.

So perhaps a better question is if you are foolish enough to play blind which bet size 1x,2x,3x,or 4x would be the least disadvantageous.?

Quote: Hunterhill

So perhaps a better question is if you are foolish enough to play blind which bet size 1x,2x,3x,or 4x would be the least disadvantageous.?

Compare how often the player makes the 4x raise, the 2x raise, and the 1x raise... then get an average, and that's your best bet I suppose. I'd do that over the following...

Again, looking at "generics" the game breaks down as the follows:
Ante = -16.6%
Blind = -31.5%
Play = 45.9% (player edge - though this assume with basic strategy)... but even if this number was anything positive without strategy an argument could be made to always 4x the Play raise, given it's where the player makes the most on the return for the game.

It’s a horrible bet. If you are betting $10 on the Blind ( and $10 on the Ante), you should expect to lose $4.76*. It doesn’t matter if you bet 1, 2, 3,or 4 times on the Play as the EV on Play bet playing blnd is 0.

Previous thread here. That thread also links to another thread.

*As I was checking my work, I found an error. I’m to lazy to update it, but to won’t change things too much.