mamat
mamat
Joined: Jul 13, 2015
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October 25th, 2015 at 12:09:31 PM permalink
<edited>
kewlj
kewlj
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October 25th, 2015 at 12:25:42 PM permalink
I am not a slot AP guy. I know less about slot machines than I know about women. Well maybe not. :/

I am a blackjack AP guy who does a limited amount of 'supplemental' VP machine AP play.

But here's the thing I wonder about. With blackjack we are forced to try to fly below the casinos radar. And really there is less of that these days. If the casino wants to know who you are....they know who you are. So it's really about playing within tolerance levels more than playing undetected.

Now machine players, slot or VP aren't immune to this situation. While, they don't deal with a dealer or pit people, there are things like handpays that are going to draw attention. And I assume players playing at levels significant enough to talk about the earnings potential being mentioned are playing levels enough to draw handpays.

And even handpays aside, in this day and age of technology (and this works against us more and more almost every day), if you are winning consistently, I would think casinos are aware of you. At some point you winning won't be tolerated and you will be forced to play the same type of cat and mouse games as blackjack players, constantly on the go moving between casinos with a large rotation of casinos necessary to make any substantial money.

Weigh in Machine pros...am I wrong?
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 25th, 2015 at 12:49:59 PM permalink
I just dismiss all of what mamat claims, it's
far easier than trying to separate the real
from the wildly exaggerated.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
mamat
mamat
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October 25th, 2015 at 4:05:12 PM permalink
<edited>
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 25th, 2015 at 6:47:25 PM permalink
Quote: mamat


It's not a bad idea to spend 10-25% of your earnings on random gambling so casinos will tolerate you.



In your made up fantasyland casino,
maybe. In the real world it's a waste
of time and money.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
jjjoooggg
jjjoooggg
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October 25th, 2015 at 7:04:00 PM permalink
mamat

We have been giving mamat a hard time.

It was fun chatting.

I hope you know what you are doing.
Born in Texas and lived in Texas my whole life.
Wizardofnothing
Wizardofnothing
Joined: Jul 3, 2015
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October 25th, 2015 at 7:07:27 PM permalink
Quote: mamat

Any decent casino is aware of 99% of slot APs ... from the low-level bus people to the $100-1,000/spin high-end ones.
After the first $4,000-$10,000 handpay, you have probably been Googled.

Casinos are definitely tracking you - Theo Win, Actual Win, ADT/ADW, PADT/PADW, Hours, Cash Drop.
Even you play without a card, surveillance may have followed you around with 6 staffers as a project to see what/how you play.

1) Camouflage.
a) from casinos
b) from APs
c) from players
2) Don't take too much from each casino.

Most slot APs who think they are hot shit, have a disbelief that there are people who operate at a higher level than they do.
This is useful. You can blend in with the majority of break-even APs ... and the APs who make minimum wage ($20,000-50,000/yr).

Different casinos have varying tolerances for levels of wins.
You can be asked to leave, formally been 86'ed, or asked to stay away from certain machines.

For example, some casinos are only tolerant of UX vultures if they play something else.
At Red Rock in 2010, I was surrounded by 6 security & staff and warned not to "fish" on UX machines.
Playing 10 credits was ok. I learned from that and started playing camouflage.

At another casinos, the VP of slots and a director came up to me and said something like
"we know what you are doing, and we are ok with it. You search UX, but its ok you play other stuff."

Types of machines:
1) small - only need $100-200-300 bankroll. May only get 1-2 handpays/yr. Can make $100K-150K/yr.
2) medium - $50-1,000 must-hits - $10,000 recommended bankroll. Will get some hand pays. Can make $75K-100K/yr
3) large - $2,500-$100,000 must-hits. Will get tons of handpays & staff will be all over you. Instantly noticed.
Unknown how much you can make. This is where people play at higher levels than me & I don't personally know what the upper limits are...
When playing a 10K must-hit, once I got 20 hand pays for $50K, and still lost -$8,000.
If you play heavy, you will rocket into a casino's top 100 players...

There are reasons why APs will deliberately do stupid things; e.g. gamble & lose $10K at baccarat. play really dumb slots heads up.
It's not a bad idea to spend 10-25% of your earnings on random gambling so casinos will tolerate you.




Just curious if you are an ap and playing a ten k must hit maybe my brain cells are off tonight but in hitting 50k in hand pays how is it possible that you had positive ev on the machine to start . Did you start playing it at 9100?
No longer hiring, don’t ask because I won’t hire you either
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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October 25th, 2015 at 7:10:07 PM permalink
Quote: MaxPen

No wonder casinos are having financial troubles.

OMG! I cant stop laughing and it hurts.

I haven't seen you posting for a while I think I know why. I can't wait to hear about it.
I'll share to.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
DailyDouble
DailyDouble
Joined: Oct 25, 2015
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October 25th, 2015 at 7:12:13 PM permalink
Quote: mamat



Bob Dancer (Video Poker guy) had a good story on his website.
A lady asked him to teach her how to become a professional video poker player.
He asked her if she had saved money from work.
She said no.
Bob Dancer said he couldn't teach her.



Bob Dancer just posted today that on this upcoming Tuesdays radio show/podcast or whatever it is now, he and Richard Munchkin will be discussing the following topics-

1. If you are or want to be a successful gambler, is moving to Las Vegas a good idea?

2. If you’re smart enough to make it as a professional gambler, can you likely make more money working in a “regular” job?

I thought some of you might be interested as these issues have been discussed throughout this thread. Short time lurker here, just found these forums last week. I really like the discussions .
teddys
teddys
Joined: Nov 14, 2009
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October 25th, 2015 at 7:46:06 PM permalink
Quote: mamat

Say you make $20-40/hr (after expenses), and work 3,000 hrs/yr, that's $60,000-120,000 in 1 year.
It's not that difficult to make 6 figures.

Completely tax-free? How do you stay ahead of the IRS?

Nothing wrong with having expenses. What else do you spend your income on? The more you make the more you spend. (Actually, I think it should be the other way around).
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4

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