AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 22nd, 2015 at 4:31:21 PM permalink
I was playing poker at Wheeling Island this weekend and saw something for the first time. During the shuffle the dealer found and pulled a marked card. He did not think there was cheating, just something nicked the paint off a spot. Jh was the card. So he called for the floor. But this is where it gets interesting.

So the floor comes over with the little plastic bags and dealer and floor initial the chain of custody on the bag. What surprised me though was that they just replaced the one card from a donor deck. Floor pulled a deck with the right back color and found J-h, put it in, and the game moved on.

I would have thought the entire deck would be pulled, perhaps put in two bags, one for the bad card and one the rest. Now, the dealer was great and friendly, the whole thing took minimal time. But I had the feeling the place was too cheap to spend what, eighty cents on a new deck? I probably should have asked the dealer as I was sitting close but kind of felt I chatted him up enough on the subject.

Is this normal? Is it a gaming control thing to replace the card and not the deck? Wouldn't an auditor want to see the rest of the deck to verify no dabs or whatever were on any other cards?
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bw
bw
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March 22nd, 2015 at 4:35:29 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

I was playing poker at Wheeling Island this weekend and saw something for the first time. During the shuffle the dealer found and pulled a marked card. He did not think there was cheating, just something nicked the paint off a spot. Jh was the card. So he called for the floor. But this is where it gets interesting.

So the floor comes over with the little plastic bags and dealer and floor initial the chain of custody on the bag. What surprised me though was that they just replaced the one card from a donor deck. Floor pulled a deck with the right back color and found J-h, put it in, and the game moved on.

I would have thought the entire deck would be pulled, perhaps put in two bags, one for the bad card and one the rest. Now, the dealer was great and friendly, the whole thing took minimal time. But I had the feeling the place was too cheap to spend what, eighty cents on a new deck? I probably should have asked the dealer as I was sitting close but kind of felt I chatted him up enough on the subject.

Is this normal? Is it a gaming control thing to replace the card and not the deck? Wouldn't an auditor want to see the rest of the deck to verify no dabs or whatever were on any other cards?



I have seen this at least a dozen times where I play, mostly on Pai Gow poker. Always just the card they find the flaw on is replaced just as you said.
ddloml
ddloml
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March 22nd, 2015 at 4:42:04 PM permalink
I've seen that process quite often at many casinos. I like to play PGP, and there are times that the Shufflemaster machine will flash the 'red light' when shuffling a deck. The floor supervisor will be called over and it will be determined that the machine fails on a single card. The card will be bent or ripped, remember that cards are handled by the players in PGP. A replacement card is pulled from a donor deck and play continues. I would guess that this process is quicker than replacing the full deck; card changes in PGP are an elaborate ritual at most casinos. In the long run, the lack of play would cost revenue for the casino.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
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March 22nd, 2015 at 5:00:01 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Is this normal?

Yes.
Quote: AZDuffman

Is it a gaming control thing to replace the card and not the deck?

No.

A card can accidentally pick up a stray mark or indentation in a lot of ways, it isn't too terrribly unusual, and this is what is usually done in my experience. Did the poker table there have an auto-shuffler? That is the most common way for a card to get a stray mark on it accidentally, an occasional by-product when an automatic shuffling machine is doing it's thing with the "other" deck between hands.

A somewhat off-topic but maybe related little story: Near the end of a long session of playing poker I squeezed my hole cards pre-flop to see I'd been dealt: a three of spades... and, a three of spades. I'm not a drinker, and after doing a triple take reassured myself that I was not hallucinating. I was dealt a "suited pair" you might say. And what I said was "stop the action, call the floor please, we have a problem, I need to show him something." After showing him my "hand" what the floor said, of course, was "dead hand, take back the bets." I strongly suspect how that happened was most likely a mistake made replacing a bad card when making up the deck. In theory the dealer should still catch it when spreading out the deck before beginning to deal, but some are more diligent and observant than others.
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Deucekies
Deucekies
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March 22nd, 2015 at 5:22:28 PM permalink
In a shoe game, just the card will be replaced because it's not feasible to replace the whole shoe.

In a single-deck game, it depends. They may replace just the card, or they may replace the whole deck. It is wiser for them to replace the whole deck because when replacing one card, you have one shiny new card mixed in with 51 more worn cards, making it easier to spot. Could be dangerous for the house if that card is an Ace or something.
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DJTeddyBear
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March 22nd, 2015 at 6:53:00 PM permalink
Replace the one card. That's the procedure I've seen in AC, Vegas, Pennsylvania.
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Dieter
Dieter
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March 22nd, 2015 at 7:34:27 PM permalink
Quote: Deucekies

It is wiser for them to replace the whole deck because when replacing one card, you have one shiny new card mixed in with 51 more worn cards, making it easier to spot. Could be dangerous for the house if that card is an Ace or something.



I agree, but the house, as an AP, wants as many rounds per hour as they can get.

Replacing a card is faster than replacing the whole deck.

In my experience, the cards are changed often enough* so that it's hard to discern a difference between the single new card and the remainder of the deck.

The experience I have - the dealer calls the floor, the floor inspects the card and makes a decision to play on or replace.
If the decision is to replace, the card is set either next to the discard tray or at the bottom of the discard tray, so it can be readily found.
The floor calls the card room. A suitable replacement card is located (same size, same face style, same back style/color).
Someone - either an alternate floor, or a security - runs the replacement card from the card room to the table. This is usually done in a baggie.
They wait for the next time there is not a hand in play (so all cards are discarded), they lay the two cards face down so the camera can confirm the backs are the same, they flip the cards over so the camera can confirm the faces are the same, the damaged card is cancelled on the spot, bagged, and removed from the pit. The replacement card is placed in the discard tray (house procedure changes if it's at the bottom, top, or middle).
Play continues.

That stops the game for maybe 20 seconds. Replacing the deck takes at least 3 minutes around here, with the 4 fans for inspection, wash, and hand-shuffle (to be followed by a machine shuffle).

*Every 2 hours on pitch BJ, every 16-24 hours on shoe BJ (although, some busier houses I hear do 8 hours), and every 24 hours at most on most carnival games.
May the cards fall in your favor.
DrawingDead
DrawingDead
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March 23rd, 2015 at 11:10:05 AM permalink
Quote: Dieter

I agree, but the house, as an AP, wants as many rounds per hour as they can get.

And, at least at poker tables, so do many of the players. The goofy guy calling for a "new setup" whether to change his luck or because of an imaginary issue with the cards is almost universally despised for pointlessly slowing the game. But politely despised by smiling faces if folks are smart about it, because he's usually going to be a major donator of chips who goes by the informal nickname of "Rebuy."
"I'm against stuff like crack and math" --AxelWolf
GWAE
GWAE
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March 23rd, 2015 at 11:35:53 AM permalink
Playing poker at the Rivers this same thing happened. they handled it the same way with just replacing 1 card.
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jml24
jml24
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March 23rd, 2015 at 11:49:53 AM permalink
I think this is very common in poker rooms. I haven't played a ton of poker and I have seen it more than once. Often times a player will point out a marked card and ask to have it replaced. One thing to note is that at the house-banked table games the cards are standard cardboard and new decks are frequently put into play. Poker rooms typically use plastic cards that are more durable but they are also more expensive. They would not want to throw out an entire deck just because there is one marked card.

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