What are the rules regarding check dark/ bet dark in poker?

I see it done on TV. But I'm wondering what the actual rules on it are, googling it turned up fruitless thanks to a TV series called "poker after dark" with a similar search name.

So, first of all who can do it? I'm fairly confident that the first to act can do it. But what about everyone else? Seems like dark betting as anyone else but UTG is kinda the same as betting out of turn. But yet one seems acceptable and other not.

Secondly, how do you signal a dark check/bet? And more importantly is it a binding action? What kinds of signals of it and how binding does it get? For example, telling people "Ima raise this on the flop" but doesn't, does that constitute rule breaking?

Thanks in advance to whoever can enlighten me on this. And f*** google searching, get the similar-name-syndrome sorted out already...

Quote: Neutrino

I see it done on TV. But I'm wondering what the actual rules on it are, googling it turned up fruitless thanks to a TV series called "poker after dark" with a similar search name.

So, first of all who can do it? I'm fairly confident that the first to act can do it. But what about everyone else? Seems like dark betting as anyone else but UTG is kinda the same as betting out of turn. But yet one seems acceptable and other not.

Secondly, how do you signal a dark check/bet? And more importantly is it a binding action? What kinds of signals of it and how binding does it get? For example, telling people "Ima raise this on the flop" but doesn't, does that constitute rule breaking?

Thanks in advance to whoever can enlighten me on this. And f*** google searching, get the similar-name-syndrome sorted out already...

The search works better if you leave out the word poker. Google is smart enough to know what you want if you just search "checking in the dark" or "rules for checking in the dark"

These types of questions often fall under "House Rules", therefore, you're best bet is to check to see if the poker room has the rules available on their website. Or ask a floorperson.

That said, since these tend to be non-standard strategies and procedures, if it's allowed, it is best to verbalize the intention and have the dealer repeat or acknowledge it.

These questions, and a lot more, are covered in my post: Introduction to poker in a Casino Poker Room.

Quote: Neutrino

TV series called "poker after dark"

Ahhhh... I miss seeing Shana Hiatt each night.

Quote: Neutrino

I see it done on TV. But I'm wondering what the actual rules on it are, googling it turned up fruitless thanks to a TV series called "poker after dark" with a similar search name.

So, first of all who can do it? I'm fairly confident that the first to act can do it. But what about everyone else? Seems like dark betting as anyone else but UTG is kinda the same as betting out of turn. But yet one seems acceptable and other not.

Secondly, how do you signal a dark check/bet? And more importantly is it a binding action? What kinds of signals of it and how binding does it get? For example, telling people "Ima raise this on the flop" but doesn't, does that constitute rule breaking?

Thanks in advance to whoever can enlighten me on this. And f*** google searching, get the similar-name-syndrome sorted out already...

There is no rule that says you have to look at your cards. You can do anything you want in the dark, fold, check, bet, raise. But there is no rule that says you have to look at your cards.

for the most part you can check in the dark if you are the first to act on the next betting round and yes it's binding when you say check in the dark since you are acting in turn. the player who is next to act after the "dark check" can also check in the dark or even bet in the dark.

basically you can do whatever you want as to check, bet, fold or raise if it's your turn to act. if you are heads up, for example and player A who is closest to the button "checks in the dark" player B can bet in the dark before the card hits the table. I think these rules play out the same just about everywhere. it goes without saying if 3 people check in the dark in turn, the 4th can do the same, wait for the card, or bet.

signaling a dark check, in my experience, has always been verbal so that the table and most importantly the dealer hears the declaration. a person who says something like "im gonna raise this on the flop" is acting out of turn. his "raise" isn't and shouldn't be binding. it goes to table talk, imo. (he cant raise if he's first to act) so if there are 4 people to act before "im gonna raise this flop" and he utters it when the card is hitting the felt, the action isn't binding. on the other hand if player A bets and it's his turn and he speaks those words, then he must raise.

a famous example of this was the "2005 wsop" at least I think it was that year and Doyle Brunson was down to 55 people or so and he stated and the dealer heard him that he is going all in and only pushed a few chips over the line,,, the player didn't hear Doyle and said I'm gonna raise it, and the dealer said you cant raise it, he's all in, the player said, oh I fold then, but it was too late and the floor ruled he had to put all the chips in to cover Texas Dolly's bet and Doyles' 10's got busted by A-7 or something like that.

if a guy is continuously angle shooting, by putting chips into the pot when its not his turn, he should be removed from the game. I hope this helps some.

As others have said, it's almost always verbalized. And when it happens a lot, that usually means I'm at the right table.

Quote: mickeycrimm

There is no rule that says you have to look at your cards. You can do anything you want in the dark, fold, check, bet, raise. But there is no rule that says you have to look at your cards.

By "dark", I think he means, before the next round of betting, not before he has seen his cards.

Quote: AxiomOfChoice

By "dark", I think he means, before the next round of betting, not before he has seen his cards.

Oh, okay. Nevermind.

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Quote: Ibeatyouraces

Checking or betting dark is the act of doing one or the other while you are first to act and BEFORE either the flop, turn or river is exposed. Nothing more.

I was thinking more along the lines of Seven Card Stud where checking dark on the river after the card has been delivered can be an effective strategy.

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At a Hold'Em tournament last year a guy checked dark to me and i checked dark right back to him before the flop was dealt just for fun. So the dealer put out the flop and turn.