All day hard ways

Recently I saw a guy with a $5 bet on the hard 8. An easy 8 rolled and the Stick and Box just sort of didn't notice the bet was there. I know the house edge is rather obscene on the hard ways, but if the Dealers always forgot to take it down on the easy numbers and only remember it on 7's, what would it do to the house edge?

Quote: CloudStrife1212

Recently I saw a guy with a $5 bet on the hard 8. An easy 8 rolled and the Stick and Box just sort of didn't notice the bet was there. I know the house edge is rather obscene on the hard ways, but if the Dealers always forgot to take it down on the easy numbers and only remember it on 7's, what would it do to the house edge?

For the 6 or 8, there would be 6 ways of losing and 1 way of winning (all other rolls push and do not affect the edge), meaning you win 14.28% of the time, but you are paid 9 to 1. (.1428 x 10) = 1.428. The player advantage would be 42.8%...hit it hard!

For the 4 and 10, there are 6 ways to lose, 1 way to win, and you are paid 7 to 1. (.1428 x 8) The player edge is about 14.3%. Notice it isn't as big as the 6 and 8, because you are making fewer bad rolls into pushes. With the 6 and 8, there are 4 bad rolls that you are eliminating (the 4 easy ways), but with the 4 and 10, there are only 2 easy ways that you are now turning from a loss to a push. Still a big advantage though.

Quote: CloudStrife1212

the Stick and Box just sort of didn't notice the bet was there.

Any hint of where this might occurred? Even which city?

Quote: SanchoPanza

Any hint of where this might occurred? Even which city?

Eventually you see it just about everywhere, but it happens very rarely. Like a blackjack dealer giving you a push when you really lost.

I had this happen to me last night in Niagara Falls.... it was fairly late at night, with little action on the table. The bets just stayed up with the stickman and boxman just looking on, shipping the dice when the easy ways hit.

In that case I would immediately go two ways for $5 apiece on all the hard ways. It might help him to keep forgetting.

Quote: pacomartin

In that case I would immediately go two ways for $5 apiece on all the hard ways. It might help him to keep forgetting.

i wouldnt do that because you dont want to draw their attention towards the bets in case they are honestly forgetting. also youre giving up too much in +EV by giving them a fullbet. instead tip small on other bets every time a hardway hits and they forget to take it down but only if you get paid on something for some other reason. keep it up as long as they continue to forget to take your hardway bets down. if they start taking your hardway bets down then quit tipping for a while. either they will get the picture and start forgetting to take your bets down again or it will just return to a normal game.

tipping 3/4 of your bet every time they forget to take your bet down is the breakeven point on hard 6 and 8.
tipping 1/2 of your bet every time they forget to take your bet down is the breakeven point on hard 4 and 10.

this assumes they always forget to take your bet down on an easy number which probably isnt the case.

so pretty much just tip a $1 for every $5 hardway bet they forget to take down just to be safe. but only tip if youre getting paid on something else while theyre supposed to be taking the hardway bet down just to not make it too obvious.

The Stick is trying to get away with it. Perhaps the Box is letting him do it. The shooter may be tipping well or atleast they value his action. They are getting a bit slack for a reason. It might be oversight but its more likely a situation of "Give him a break, he is the only one who tipped us all night long".

I would assume they did it hoping that they'd get a tip out of it. So give them one.


If it ever happens to me, I'd throw a red to the box, then two reds to the stick, saying "I gotta tip the crew, since they didn't take down my hard 8 when I asked them to. Might as well press it with a two-way..."

Clearly, the dealers are going to know that you never asked to take it down, so you are telling them you know what's going on, and you appreciate it.

If it happens again, to avoid bringing it additional attention, say nothing except to acknowledge their thanks for the two-way, then press the two-way.

if its an honest mistake, my way doesnt bring attention to that fact. if they are intentionally doing that, my way is a more subtle way of saying i know whats going on, keep it up and ill keep tipping you guys more than usual.