Need advice on approaching casino's
I'm an avid blackjack/baccarat player from the Netherlands, and i have played in a lot of casinos throughout Europe.
My blackjack/baccarat bets range from $10k - $75k per hand usually. With most casinos in Europe i play in, i have things
settled regarding comps, creditlines and money transfers.
I would like to know how one would go about approaching Las Vegas casino's about those issues. Is there a special department
handling these issues? I have ofcourse used google, but it seems there are no commercial services specializing in arranging this for players,
or i couldn't find them at least.
So i would like to know the following:
- Is it better to approach a casino myself, or are there trustworthy commercial services available?
- What could i ask for (comps-wise)?
Thank you in advance for your time answering my questions and excuse my bad English.
Quote: brigadaHello all,
I'm an avid blackjack/baccarat player from the Netherlands, and i have played in a lot of casinos throughout Europe.
My blackjack/baccarat bets range from $10k - $75k per hand usually. With most casinos in Europe i play in, i have things
settled regarding comps, creditlines and money transfers.
I would like to know how one would go about approaching Las Vegas casino's about those issues. Is there a special department
handling these issues? I have ofcourse used google, but it seems there are no commercial services specializing in arranging this for players,
or i couldn't find them at least.
So i would like to know the following:
- Is it better to approach a casino myself, or are there trustworthy commercial services available?
- What could i ask for (comps-wise)?
Thank you in advance for your time answering my questions and excuse my bad English.
It is very unlikely that you are going to get any comps prior to playing. In Vegas 1 $75 max bet is not going to get you much as well unless you are downtown or other off strip casinos. Once you establish some hours in a casino then you could always ask for comps.
Quote: brigadaHello all,
I'm an avid blackjack/baccarat player from the Netherlands, and i have played in a lot of casinos throughout Europe.
My blackjack/baccarat bets range from $10k - $75k per hand usually. With most casinos in Europe i play in, i have things
settled regarding comps, creditlines and money transfers.
I would like to know how one would go about approaching Las Vegas casino's about those issues. Is there a special department
handling these issues? I have ofcourse used google, but it seems there are no commercial services specializing in arranging this for players,
or i couldn't find them at least.
So i would like to know the following:
- Is it better to approach a casino myself, or are there trustworthy commercial services available?
- What could i ask for (comps-wise)?
Thank you in advance for your time answering my questions and excuse my bad English.
10k to 75k per hand? At many hours a day?
Quote: mds10k to 75k per hand? At many hours a day?
Yes sorry, $10,000 - $75,000 per hand. I usually play 4 to 6 hours depending on my mood with breaks (dinner etc) in between. Sometimes however i will play more, but never more than 8.
Call several casinos and ask for a host. Tell them what your plan is. Even if you don't plan on visiting again for several years, for your size bets, they'll work with you.
Quote: brigadaYes sorry, $10,000 - $75,000 per hand. I usually play 4 to 6 hours depending on my mood with breaks (dinner etc) in between. Sometimes however i will play more, but never more than 8.
I would suggest you decide who you want to work with among the high-end casinos. The ones that come to my mind in Vegas would be Wynn/Encore, Caesar's, Bellagio/Mirage, Aria, Venetian/Palazzo. Each has a lot of information on their websites about accommodations, and I'm pretty sure all of them have a credit application tab there. You can approach them in advance of your visit in order to set these things up, and it will get their attention that you're interested in playing at that level. I would think if you can prove your bona fides before you commit (such as a letter of credit), there will be a certain amount of bidding among them for your business, including comps, loss rebates, travel assistance, etc.
I do have a host I can put you in touch with for Caesar's, and I have a friend who plays at your level with MGM/Bellagio who can put you in touch with his host if they're the ones you want to work with. There are also independent hosts who can negotiate in advance for you. And there are other folks on here who will have further ideas. But I disagree about your having to wait to be set up before you play for the first time; each of those I mentioned above will at least consider advance arrangements with sufficient proof of your intent.
There are also affiliations among some European casinos and their American counterparts; for example, the Empire casino in the UK is affiliated with Caesar's now. You might inquire with your usual places or hosts whether they have any arrangements with the casinos mentioned above.
or this guy is Matt Damon from Oceans 11, getting ready to take down the Bellagio.
Quote: brigadaYes sorry, $10,000 - $75,000 per hand. I usually play 4 to 6 hours depending on my mood with breaks (dinner etc) in between. Sometimes however i will play more, but never more than 8.
There is no question you will be RFB Room Food Beverage which will actually be at most casinos Suite, Food (at best restaurants in the casino, not just the casino's buffet), Beverage (any brand of any alcohol you want, not just normal stuff).
SOME people advise calling a casino. I do NOT advise this. I think you will do better with EMAILS. Go to the casino's web site and look under Players Club OR under Credit department for the NAMES, PHOTOS, and BIOGRAPHIES of their Hosts, Executive Hosts, etc.
Choose by whatever standards you prefer: Sex, age, language ability, background, longevity with the casino. The hosts individual email is usually published along with their individual cell phone number or message number.
Please note: a phone conversation is usually more revealing than an email since the hosts hesitate to put something in writing, but you will waste less time if you do emails or atleast emails first.
IF you ask, you may well receive Airfare ... though it will usually require you to use the casino's travel agent for ALL airplane bookings on your trip both arriving and departing. Otherwise its best to ask for Airfare allowance though few places give that anymore.
You will at your rate of play most definitely be a favored customer though as we all know, the casino likes to see your ACTION, not your PROMISES. It will definitely help if you WIRE TRANSFER money to the casino in advance. Cashier or Credit Dept. will help you with routing numbers your bank will need. Be advised. I don't think any casino pays you interest on your money. Also you should still carry a good amount with you in case there are any delays at the cashiers window when you arrive.
IF you request Limousine pickup at the airport you will almost certainly get it. Do email your host your flight number and arrival expectations. At the very least the host will be at the registration desk to greet you upon your arrival or very soon thereafter.
ALL casinos have been tightening up their comps , but at your level of betting they will be generous on your first trip and extra generous after they have seen you actually making the bets that you indicate you intend to make.
Note: if they pay your airfare you are generally "expected" though not really required to give that casino virtually all your action. They do put a mark in your file if you make them pay your airfare but distribute your betting action all over town. Or atleast they used to do this a few years ago. IF you do leave the premises to visit other casinos, let your host know since its considered an extra black mark against you if they are the ones who find out about it.
While you are there your host will be available for anything else you might want: shopping cards at a local store, tickets to shows, tickets to clubs, line passes at clubs, information as "adult entertainment" though please don't ask the host to "cross the line" by actually providing any such entertainers to you.
I hesitate to suggest a particular casino, but any of the high end casinos mentioned by beachbumbabs (above) would be good choices. IF you choose the Venetian be certain to arrive by limousine however, they "devalue" people who arrive by the airport shuttle. The Venetian slots are probably the worst in town (except the airport concession) but the Venetian banks the high limit room tables very high and continued to do so during the hard economic times of the recent past. If you play poker you will definitely want to visit their poker room since it is so highly rated for its opulent style and the variety of its games.
Again, good luck to you. At your rate of play you will definitely be a valued player anywhere you go and should be treated as such.
I'm more informed now as to what is considered ''normal'' comps-wise; the comps and negotiating them are part of the playing pleasure for me if you understand what i mean. Since i have 0 experience in the USA i am just trying to get some info and tips & tricks beforehand.
It surprises me noone mentioned any commercial services yet (maybe there aren't any?), which would be very interesting. Sounds like a good business idea as well and i will have to investigate that further!
May all your spins be wins,
with regard
Quote: beachbumbabsGood advice, Flea!
+1
Agreed. Very comprehensive and well written information.
They may vouch for you first, and make it a lot easier for you.
SFB
Thanks all again!
Quote: beachbumbabsIt's frowned on in this forum to provide links to ads, but if you google "independent casino hosts Las Vegas" you will find many listings.
Sorry. Though some of that overly long post from me is vital. For instance, if you arrive at the Venetian by airport shuttle, you will be dropped at remote doorway, have to walk by an extra, though concealed, security camera and will actually be asked additional questions when you check in. The Venetian is one of the safest, if not the safest, casino in town, but some of their methods are weird and you do not want to start out with a black mark with them and then try to get them to be very generous.Quote: brigadaThank you all for your prompt (and lenghty! Fleastiff) answers.
>It surprises me no one mentioned any commercial services yet (maybe there aren't any?)
Oh, there are though no where near the industry that it used to be. Its just this is not really the proper place to discuss Junkets or the Marketing of Junkets. Most junket operators now in business have excellent links with one or two casinos only. That limits your choice.
And the operators of junkets are even more insistent upon looking only at your prior ACTION, not your promises or your wallet. I'm told that the worst problem with current Junket Operators is that the employee who accompanies a plane full of gamblers has no real power over the casino, only the Junket Operator has any influence. And the Junket Operator makes his money by selling an entire plane load of gamblers to a casino, not by selling individual gamblers to a casino.
Fleastiff, others, what do you think about that idea?
Sure will, but one guy has ads in which he claims to be an independent casino host representing two casinos that have been closed for nearly a year. And another independent casino host wrote a newsletter in which he mentioned "cycles" during which some slot machines became looser because they had recently taken in a certain sum of money.Quote: beachbumbabsIt's frowned on in this forum to provide links to ads, but if you google "independent casino hosts Las Vegas" you will find many listings.
I imagine that the very very best in the business become independents like that Whales in the Desert guy but it seems its not really a reliable job title.
If you are betting $75,000 a hand just have your assistant make your travel plans and don't worry about anything. I don't think you'd have to call the casino's 800 number and apply for a player's card.
This doesn't add up at all.
+1Quote: sodawaterThis doesn't add up at all.
Probably not very likely. I play all the time, yet I haven't gotten any free room offers either.Quote: DrMehWhat about us non-high rollers?...How likely are they to offer me a free room for my trip in April if I email or call a host? Any thoughts on this?
Last year, the radio show, Gambling with an edge interviewed a freelance host, Steve Cyr (See http://www.bobdancer.com/radio.cfm). You might be able to use him as your middle guy to get the bargain.
Good luck!
Quote: sodawaterThis guy is betting $75,000 a HAND and has to ask about "how to approach casinos"?
If you are betting $75,000 a hand just have your assistant make your travel plans and don't worry about anything. I don't think you'd have to call the casino's 800 number and apply for a player's card.
This doesn't add up at all.
It goes without say that we just accept what people claim around here until the claims get too wild. Does a large bet per hand qualify? You might expect such a person to be well known to the casinos before any were ever approached.
Quote: Beethoven9th+1
Probably not very likely. I play all the time, yet I haven't gotten any free room offers either.
Drats. But maybe I'm a significantly worse gambler than you and lose a lot more to the house. I just shot them an email since I have nothing to lose so we'll see what they say.
What purpose is served by calling anyone out with so little, to NO proof?
I hope the poster is valid, and that they come back with some stories of their trip. I'd love to read a trip report sometime by someone playing $10k a hand. But if our naysayers start spouting off, chances are we just drive away another possible valuable member.
If the poster is phony, proof will come soon enough. Until then, the more left unsaid, the better.
Quote: odiousgambitIt goes without say that we just accept what people claim around here until the claims get too wild. Does a large bet per hand qualify? You might expect such a person to be well known to the casinos before any were ever approached.
I used to work surveillance at a local California card room and we had a guy who would bet $10,000 a hand and play 10 hands at once. We had no idea who he was though. He got all kinds of special treatment like the ability to be rude to dealers and servers. The one time we kicked him out was when he spit in the pit boss' face. We "banned" him but when he came back the next day, they lifted the ban and he lost $360,000 in about two hours. He didn't come back after that.
Point is, casinos don't always know the high rollers or much about them at all.
Quote: DrMehPoint is, casinos don't always know the high rollers or much about them at all.
That was a card room though, not a casino. Most casinos will try to get as much information as humanly possible on high rollers who continually play there.
Quote: RaleighCrapsI'd love to read a trip report sometime by someone playing $10k a hand
On Vegas Message Board, there's a high roller who plays in a way that the rest of us can only dream of. What do I mean by that? Let's put it this way, he once stayed at the Wynn for 3 months and ended up losing about $5 million. He posts very detailed trip reports, and his last one was from a few weeks ago. You'd probably enjoy it.
I can't speak for the Four Queens but its real real cheap to send an email. (Just ask any spammer). The host will deal with it when he can and respond as frankly as he is willing to go on record which means you will be reading the word "generally". If you reveal in your email about how many dollars your elsewhere action is, you are likely to get a more informative reply. Phone calls often come at inconvenient times as hosts have busy schedules too.Quote: DrMehWhat about us non-high rollers? I used to get free room offers all the time from Four Queens but haven't gotten an offer in 3 years. As a result, I have been staying and gaming elsewhere. How likely are they to offer me a free room for my trip in April if I email or call a host? Any thoughts on this?
I'd give them specific dates if you can but if not just say Midweek and Weekend.... I think only the M is going to tell you what mid week comp requires and refuse to discuss a weekend comp.
Anyway, its not even a postage stamp so I'd send the email and see what happens.
If elsewhere is treating you okay let them know that and see what they say.
Quote: odiousgambitIf I was ever in the position to negotiate based on my "high-roller" gambling, as you appear to be able to do, I would play down ordinary comps and insist on the best loss rebates I could get.
Fleastiff, others, what do you think about that idea?
From reading the headlines that seems to be what real sharpies do. Of course my mathskills won't help but good luck.
Quote: FleaStiffI can't speak for the Four Queens but its real real cheap to send an email. (Just ask any spammer). The host will deal with it when he can and respond as frankly as he is willing to go on record which means you will be reading the word "generally". If you reveal in your email about how many dollars your elsewhere action is, you are likely to get a more informative reply. Phone calls often come at inconvenient times as hosts have busy schedules too.
I'd give them specific dates if you can but if not just say Midweek and Weekend.... I think only the M is going to tell you what mid week comp requires and refuse to discuss a weekend comp.
Anyway, its not even a postage stamp so I'd send the email and see what happens.
If elsewhere is treating you okay let them know that and see what they say.
They wrote back already and said they can't give me a free one based on my last stay there where apparently I didn't gamble as much. However, they offered me a rate of $25/night and said I can talk to a host after my stay to get that waived if I gambled enough. $25/Night is pretty cheap so I might take them up on it.
Quote: DrMehthey offered me a rate of $25/night and said I can talk to a host after my stay to get that waived if I gambled enough. $25/Night is pretty cheap so I might take them up on it.
Sounds good. *thumbs up*
I was only interested to see how betsize and playing time affects the comps (including discount on losses) in the USA, because i would like to visit sometime soon.
Not everyone uses his ''assisant'' for everything; gambling isn't socially accepted everywhere in the world, i would like to arrange such things myself, especially when it concerns these amounts. I dont play on a daily, or even monthly basis, i lack the time for that fortunately.
As other posters have noted, there are a lot of ''anynymous highrollers" who play upto EURO 25,000 per hand on 7 boxes in blackjack who noone has seen before; especially Chinese people are famous for that. They rake up losses upto a million without noticable discomfort. Visit any Holland Casino and amaze yourself by hardcore Chinese players who seem to have a lot to spend, and lose. I am not ''known'' and i certainly don't want to be endorsed by a foreign casino to an USA-based one, privacy wise. I wouldn't feel comfortable with that.
On a side note: Russia, and Eastern Europe in general is quite different; i would say 50% of highrollers are people you do not want to be associated with.
With regards,
Quote: sodawaterThis guy is betting $75,000 a HAND and has to ask about "how to approach casinos"?
If you are betting $75,000 a hand just have your assistant make your travel plans and don't worry about anything. I don't think you'd have to call the casino's 800 number and apply for a player's card.
This doesn't add up at all.
Link?Quote: Beethoven9thOn Vegas Message Board, there's a high roller who plays in a way that the rest of us can only dream of. What do I mean by that? Let's put it this way, he once stayed at the Wynn for 3 months and ended up losing about $5 million. He posts very detailed trip reports, and his last one was from a few weeks ago. You'd probably enjoy it.
Brigada, I think you should call Steve Cyr and have him negotiate for you. He represents the Cosmopolitan, the Hard Rock, and the Golden Nugget downtown. He could probably get you a great deal, and you are the type of player he would represent. I don't know his phone number but he has a website, www.stevecyr.com.
If you are dead set on the Caesars or MGM properties, they have their own in-house hosts. Any host will want to see a credit account set up first before they rep you.
I would be very happy to introduce you to my host, should you want a reliable connection to Caesar's/Harrah's. He's quite good. PM me if so. Or if you choose MGM/Mirage/Bellagio, I will pass you along to my friend's host. Again a PM (private message) via this board. If you wish to speak with me or any of the others in this thread about it, click on our name in blue, then on "new message" when our profile appears.
You should always talk to a host prior to checking out...many places will be more generous AFTER they have seen your action. Sometimes its their fault. Perhaps your prior visit reflected poor attention on their part in rating your play. They do make mistakes and they do have other players to attend to also. That is one reason I tip so promptly upon handing over my card. The dealer and the floor person are going to remember me for the tip and for the size of my first bet.Quote: DrMehthey offered me a rate of $25/night and said I can talk to a host after my stay to get that waived if I gambled enough. $25/Night is pretty cheap so I might take them up on it.
Quote: sodawaterThis guy is betting $75,000 a HAND and has to ask about "how to approach casinos"?
If you are betting $75,000 a hand just have your assistant make your travel plans and don't worry about anything. I don't think you'd have to call the casino's 800 number and apply for a player's card.
This doesn't add up at all.
And apologizes for his English which is perfect.
Quote: anonimussAnd apologizes for his English which is perfect.
I was not going to bring it up, as I am not the grammar or spelling police, but the word noone is poor form.
Quote: FleaStiffYou should always talk to a host prior to checking out...many places will be more generous AFTER they have seen your action. Sometimes its their fault. Perhaps your prior visit reflected poor attention on their part in rating your play. They do make mistakes and they do have other players to attend to also. That is one reason I tip so promptly upon handing over my card. The dealer and the floor person are going to remember me for the tip and for the size of my first bet.
Flea is absolutely right, and I've benefitted from taking extra time at checkout to ask them to review; if they haven't already comped my trip, they will do it then. However, I've never played at his level, and yet I've had them come find me on day 2 or 3, when they know I'm staying even longer, and say "you should be with a host", or even have the host come up and introduce themselves and initiate offers and comps on the spot. No way someone who plays at the level he's proposing has to wait to be noticed, or not get taken care of ahead of time.
Quote: bwI was not going to bring it up, as I am not the grammar or spelling police, but the word noone is poor form.
I meant perfect for the internet. I noticed the uncapitalized i's as well.
The way casinos start off the negotiation is by establishing how mush money you are willing to transfer to their "holding accounts". Once the transfer has been successfully received then they will happilly enter into negotiations with you. They will discuss the following in my experience.
1) Loss rebates (I have no idea up to which level)
2) RFB comps (Your entire stay should be comped as well as meals and drinks)
3) There may be extra comps available to you dependant on your play such as your return air ticket paid for and then obviously any future trips they will be happy to fly you out.
In return you will have to play for a set amount of time per day. I don't believe they will tell you what to bet but in order for certain levels of comps and rebates to apply you will have to maintain a pre arranged average bet for the pre arranged time frame.
Most casino hosts are pretty good at their jobs but if you are talking the amounts of money you are then you will have to be approved by the Director of Marketing as well as the VP of gaming operations.
Let's look at an example of your comp level. Say you bet $10k average for 4 hours of play on Baccarat. Your theoretical should be in the vicinity of $18,000 at which level they will probably comp you between $1500 and $2700. That would go towards your on property spending including rooms, dinners, shows and so on.
Any other rebates you negotiate will depend on your bankroll and your deal with the casino. They will be weary of you because you are a foreigner and they will more than likely never have heard of you before so expect the rebates to be a little stingy until they get to know you.
These are only my opinions and in no way reflect the rules and regulations of any casino I have, am or will be involved with.........(ace should be proud of my indemnity) :)
All the best and have fun!
This is his most recent TR, although it's not as eventful as some of his past TR's. (You'll definitely want to check those out, too)Quote: teddysLink?
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101454
Also, here's where he briefly mentions his marathon stay at the Wynn:
http://www.vegasmessageboard.com/forums/showthread.php?p=890416#post890416
Remember, your comps are based on your ACTION, so if you win, even if you win a rather great amount, your comp account will not be penalized and if you lose, your comps are supposed to keep you happy enough to come back to them.
Good luck.
Quote: FleaStiffActually since it is your first trip to Las Vegas a casino may be interested in "investing" in you a little bit and instead of being a bit wary of you since they don't know who you are, they may be willing to sweeten the comps just a wee bit. Host do still have some discretion.
Remember, your comps are based on your ACTION, so if you win, even if you win a rather great amount, your comp account will not be penalized and if you lose, your comps are supposed to keep you happy enough to come back to them.
Good luck.
Flea, not sure I can agree with you. There are not too many casinos out there who will negotiate with a guy they know nothing about who is willing to deposit, let's say $500k into their accounts. They will give him the standard 1%-3% cash back if you reach your trip theoretical but thee is no way they sweeten the deal without him actually being there and putting in the hours.
This is only my opinion so I wish you all the best and hopefully you can negotiate as well as you can and get a great deal. In my experience the good deals will come either while there or on your next trip.
Quote: FleaStiffSorry. Though some of that overly long post from me is vital. For instance, if you arrive at the Venetian by airport shuttle, you will be dropped at remote doorway, have to walk by an extra, though concealed, security camera and will actually be asked additional questions when you check in. The Venetian is one of the safest, if not the safest, casino in town, but some of their methods are weird and you do not want to start out with a black mark with them and then try to get them to be very generous.
This is interesting. Do you know what it is that they are looking for or worried about in this situation?
Quote: brigadaThank you all for your prompt (and lenghty! Fleastiff) answers.
I'm more informed now as to what is considered ''normal'' comps-wise; the comps and negotiating them are part of the playing pleasure for me if you understand what i mean. Since i have 0 experience in the USA i am just trying to get some info and tips & tricks beforehand.
It surprises me noone mentioned any commercial services yet (maybe there aren't any?), which would be very interesting. Sounds like a good business idea as well and i will have to investigate that further!
May all your spins be wins,
with regard
Yes there are "professional hosts" who are paid by the casinos but work on behalf of the players by negotiating the best deal for the players at the various casinos. I know of a professional host who would no doubt love your business. Send me a private message if you would like to contact him. But you are on your own once you decide to let him represent you -- and I offer no guarantees that he is better than other professional hosts.
