Nareed
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May 30th, 2012 at 1:06:51 PM permalink
Next Tuesday, June 5th, Venus will crawl along the face of the Sun as seen from Earth, in what is known as a "transit."

I'll post details later as I look them up (or anyone else feel free to).

The event is nowhere near as spectacular as even a partial Soalr eclipse, but the same techniques are used to view both, namely welder glasses for those of you who got some for the latest annular eclipse. So I thought you might want to take advantage.

The event is mroe significant to astronomers, though I should think by now we have the lone Sister in the Solar System down cold. We've landed ships there, after all, and radar-mapped almost the entire globe already. if we don't know her exact size and mass by now, we're doing something wrong, IMO.

Oh, as to what there is to see, just a black dot, Venus, slowly moving across part of the face of the Sun.
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QuadDeuces
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May 30th, 2012 at 1:47:48 PM permalink
Going to use a refractor and a projection screen for this one. We get an image about 5" in diameter with it. It's supposed to start at 15:09 local and will continue past sunset. Next one is in 105 years.
WongBo
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May 30th, 2012 at 2:14:33 PM permalink
The prior transit took place on 8 June 2004.
The previous pair of transits were in December 1874 and December 1882.
After 2012, the next transits of Venus will be in December 2117 and December 2125.

this site has a nice amount of info, for those interested: transitofvenus.org

if you are in Vegas,
Join the CSN Planetarium Staff and the LVAS at
the CSN Cheyenne Campus Observatory
beginning at 3:00PM on June 5th.





2004 transit:
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WongBo
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:12:19 PM permalink
anyone planning to view this or any solar event with welder's glass
should keep in mind:
you need shade level #14 or darker.
most welder's glass is lower than this number.
if you do not know the number, you should not use it.
polycarbonate welding filters now on the market
are not sufficient unless they have gold coating.

TIP (from dr. ralph chou/transitofvenus.org):
Because the view should be dark,
you essentially want your eyes to adapt to the darkness
as if you were seeking night vision.
With your body facing the sun,
look down toward your feet and
hold the #14 welding glass near the bridge of your nose.
Slowly raise your head to meet the sun,
with your eyes continuously protected by the proper filter.
If you simply look toward the sun and then raise the glass in place,
your eyes will need time to adjust to the sudden darkness
and will be unnecessarily exposed to the sun, even if only briefly.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
Nareed
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:18:41 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

you need shade level #14 or darker.



I've heard conflicting advice on this, with some sources saying #14 and others #18.
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avargov
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:20:15 PM permalink
Where is this Blair County Convention Center in Vegas???
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WongBo
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:26:33 PM permalink
here is a video on eye safety by
Dr. Ralph Chou, University of Waterloo, and RASC Toronto Centre, Professor of Optometry


EDIT:
*sorry about the faulty information for local viewing in Vegas.
Join the CSN Planetarium Staff and the LVAS at
the CSN Cheyenne Campus Observatory
beginning at 3:00PM on June 5th.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
WongBo
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:32:20 PM permalink
also of interest on June 5:

International Space Station in the Las Vegas Skies

The ISS has some bright passes in both the evening and early morning skies during the first week of June.
Normally, the upcoming brighter passes over the city will be posted in the table below.
For additional passes, see the link to Heavens-Above.com.

Date Magnitude Duration Begin End Altitude at Start Direction
5 June -1.5 3:09 20:38:04 20:41:13 10° SSE (158 °) to E (98 °)
5 June -2.4 6:11 22:12:35 22:18:46 10 ° WSW (246 °) to NE (38 °)
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avargov
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May 30th, 2012 at 3:36:49 PM permalink
Quote: avargov

Where is this Blair County Convention Center in Vegas???



Oh...OK...so I don't have to go to Altoona, PA to see the transit in Vegas. ;-)

Thanks for clearing that up for us!!!
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Nareed
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June 1st, 2012 at 12:36:44 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

The prior transit took place on 8 June 2004.
The previous pair of transits were in December 1874 and December 1882.
After 2012, the next transits of Venus will be in December 2117 and December 2125.

this site has a nice amount of info, for those interested: transitofvenus.org



Thanks! that about covers the important aspect, which is where and when to view the transit.

BTW, the only two planets we can see transiting in front of the Sun are Venus and Mercury. If you were on Mars, you could also view a transit of the Earth. Past that I'm less certain, as planetary distances increase but the Sun's brightness decreases. I guess if you're far enough away, you can't see Venus transiting the Sun, as the shadow would be too small.

Interesting factoid somewhat related: the Moon would be visible to the naked eye on Mars (when it isn't behind the Earth or too close in apparent position to it). So any hypothetical Martians who might have lived, would have known since ancient times the Earth has a satellite.
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Nareed
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June 4th, 2012 at 8:20:36 AM permalink
The transit will take place tomorrow.

I made a mistake when I said the equipment for watching it is the same as for watching the eclipse. If you look at the sun through an adequate filter, you'll see something, but not much. To really see the event you need binoculars or a telescope.

Now, this is important DO NOT EVER LOOK AT THE SUN USING BINOCULARS OR A TELESCOPE!!!! You will CERTAINLY damage your eyes if you do and there's astrong likelyhood you will go BLIND. I say again, DO NOT EVER LOOK AT THE SUN USING BINOCULARS OR A TELESCOPE, EVEN IF YOU USE A WELDER'S GLASS FILTER. Welder's glass won't protect you from magnified sunlight.

The way to see the event is to aim the telescope ro binoculars at the sun, then project the event on a piece of paper surrounded by dark or black cardboard by aiming the eye-piece at the paper.

Moreover, the telescope or binoculars shoudl be of a refracting design. That is, they should only use magnifying lenses. If you use a reflecting design, which uses magnifying mirrors, chances are the mirrors will overheat and become warped in the process. You don't want to damage an expensive telescope this way.

Me, I'll follow it online. It's been so cloudy the past week that there may not be anything to see.
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June 4th, 2012 at 10:00:12 AM permalink
Anybody up for meeting me in front of the Venetian tomorrow for this? I'll bring two panes of welder's glass, but doubt we'll be able to notice the Venus dot.
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June 4th, 2012 at 10:05:11 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Anybody up for meeting me in front of the Venetian tomorrow for this? I'll bring two panes of welder's glass, but doubt we'll be able to notice the Venus dot.

perhaps you could find a Venus de Milo at which to meet :)
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Nareed
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June 4th, 2012 at 10:09:08 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Anybody up for meeting me in front of the Venetian tomorrow for this? I'll bring two panes of welder's glass, but doubt we'll be able to notice the Venus dot.



Find out the times when it will take place. My understanding is that you'll see a speck crawling along the face of the sun.

One time I did see an oclusion(sp?) of Venus by the Moon. This is when the Moon gets itself between the Earth and Venus. I happened upon it by accident. Near sunset I spotted Venus (it's rather unmistakable, bright as she is) rather close to the Moon. I watched them for a few minutes, and sure enough they were moving closer and closer.

If I had easy access to a palce with a place without light and air pollution, I'd save to buy a telescope...
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Wizard
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June 4th, 2012 at 10:12:03 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Find out the times when it will take place. My understanding is that you'll see a speck crawling along the face of the sun.



My understanding is that it starts at 3:00 and lasts until sundown.
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Nareed
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June 4th, 2012 at 10:19:51 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

My understanding is that it starts at 3:00 and lasts until sundown.



My understanding is to always make sure that's local time ;)
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Nareed
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June 4th, 2012 at 3:04:51 PM permalink
BTW. the local paper today says that tomorrow's transit will alst from 5 pm to 12 am local time. That's wrong. For one thing, the Sun will have set by 8 pm or so. maybe 12 am or so local time is when venus finishes crawling across the Sun's face, but the Sun will be over the Atlantic or Europe by then.

Bottom line, you may be able to see the transit all the way to the sunset, but no furhter.
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June 4th, 2012 at 4:17:55 PM permalink
Very exciting.
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June 4th, 2012 at 7:39:00 PM permalink
How is that Transit going? Any surprises? Did Jupiter get involved? You know that Zeus is quite jealous of Aphrodite.
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June 4th, 2012 at 7:52:55 PM permalink
deleted
DUHHIIIIIIIII HEARD THAT!
Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 8:42:25 AM permalink
FYI, the transits of both Venus and Mercury have yielded importnat scientific information over the years. We knew, for example, the relative sizes of the orbits of various planets since Keppler's time. But we did not know the actual sizes, expressed as a function of the mean distance of a planet from the sun. This knowledge was gained by measuring the time Venus took to transit the Sun. I forget the exact means involved.

Another tidbit gained was simpler. When venus bit into the sun, a halo could be seen, which wasn't apparent in the case fo Mercury. This led to the discovery that Venus has an atmosphere and Mercury does not.

I've no idea what remains to be found out by these observations, but I gather some astronomers think today's transit will yield methods for finding planets around other stars, or at least refinements for current methods.
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:10:14 AM permalink
Damn! I just realized I left my welders' glass at home.
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Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:36:42 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Damn! I just realized I left my welders' glass at home.



Do you have a flunky you could send for them? Or to the hardware store for a new set? Or can you find a hardware store that delivers?

That's it. I'm out of ideas.

But you won't be missing much, anyway. Without a telescope or binoculars, there isn't much to see.
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:46:17 AM permalink
But you won't be missing much, anyway. Without a telescope or binoculars, there isn't much to see.

Not that much to see with them either.
Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 1:40:40 PM permalink
Well, as predicted, the sky over Mex City is cloudier than a cloud convention on a cloudy day (no, I don't think much of that phrase, either).
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Doc
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June 5th, 2012 at 2:10:24 PM permalink
Here in my area of NC, we have partly cloudy skies. I have a pair of binoculars set up on a tripod with a sun shield, plus a screen consisting of a white sheet of paper mounted on a hand-held notepad. When there is a break in the clouds I get a pretty good projected image of the sun, including being able to see thin clouds passing in front. I seem to have an option as to how far away from the eyepiece to hold the screen then refocus -- farther away gives a larger, dimmer image vs. a brighter, smaller image up close to the eyepiece. I'll have to see which works better when I am searching for a small black speck transiting.

Unfortunately, I just came back inside because a big cloud is passing, and it looks like there will be quite a period without any projection. I'll just have to wait and see how sunny the sky is starting at 6:04 pm EDT.

By the way, thanks to Nareed for bringing up this topic and to everyone who has provided additional info to help me prepare. I will not be trying to photograph the Sun/Venus directly, but depending on how it goes, I might try to photograph the setup and anything that looks as if it would make an interesting photo.
Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 2:20:27 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

By the way, thanks to Nareed for bringing up this topic and to everyone who has provided additional info to help me prepare. I will not be trying to photograph the Sun/Venus directly, but depending on how it goes, I might try to photograph the setup and anything that looks as if it would make an interesting photo.



You're welcome.

Next chance you get to look at the Sun's projections, see fi you can discern sunspots. That would be worth getting on virtual film.
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kmumf
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June 5th, 2012 at 3:41:09 PM permalink
I don't think anyone has linked this yet.

Live NASA Stream
Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 4:00:31 PM permalink
Quote: kmumf

I don't think anyone has linked this yet.

Live NASA Stream



Thanks. there are a bunch of other feeds, too. Look up http://www.realclearscience.com and look for the live coverage link.

It's ongoing right now and will last several hours yet. But unless you can see it live with a good set-up, it's decidedly, to qutoe Dom de Louise in History of the World: "Nice. Nice. Not thrilling, but nice" :)
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Doc
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June 5th, 2012 at 4:04:22 PM permalink
In a brazen attempt to be the first here to present my observations/results on the Transit of Venus, here are my photos.

The first two show the setup, with binoculars attached to a tripod, including a sun shade. My wife is doing the modeling by holding the projection screen for me.

The remaining three photos show what I was able to capture of the early part of the transit. In contrast to the illustration provided by WongBo on the first page of this thread, my images are projections, i.e., inverted images. Thus, the transit started at the lower right of the Sun and progresses to the left. The Sun appears oval in the photos because I could not get the screen perpendicular to the binoculars and the camera perpendicular to the screen without tripping over the tripod.

Venus is that little speck that appears at about the 5:00 position. As you can see in the last image, the clouds were rolling back in, so I don't know whether I will be able to get anything more.









Ayecarumba
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June 5th, 2012 at 4:34:10 PM permalink
Awesome work Doc! Thanks.
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Doc
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June 5th, 2012 at 4:56:02 PM permalink
The clouds cleared up for a while, and I caught one more shot before the Sun dropped behind the trees and buildings -- it's still not officially sunset here, but I can no longer see the sun.

This shot shows just a little more progress on the transit.

Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 5:07:58 PM permalink
Great pictures, Doc!

I assume that's the famous red SUV in the background? :)

Seriously, please link to the high-resolution shots when you get a chance. I think I can make out sunspots, too.
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FrGamble
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June 5th, 2012 at 5:16:54 PM permalink
Amazing pics Doc, thanks for sharing! A true historic and once in a lifetime event!
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June 5th, 2012 at 5:17:41 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

anyone planning to view this or any solar event with welder's glass....


Too bad this isn't happening in the middle of the night...you wouldn't special equipment then.
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Nareed
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June 5th, 2012 at 5:25:59 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

A true historic and once in a lifetime event!



Not quite. But close.

You see, due to the relative orbits of Venus and the Earth, the transits of Venus take place in pairs 8 years apart. There was one in 2004, for instance. Of course, the next one won't be until 2117. But if you should live that long (unlikely, but not for children born this decade...), you'd see another one in 2125.
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Wizard
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June 5th, 2012 at 6:51:39 PM permalink
I made it home before sundown but still couldn't see anything with just my welders' glass. Oh well. Thanks for sharing the pictures Doc.
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June 5th, 2012 at 6:57:05 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

... Seriously, please link to the high-resolution shots when you get a chance. I think I can make out sunspots, too.


Seriously? Well, I seriously doubt it would be possible, considering how I got the pictures.

I think the last image I posted may be the best of them. For that one, there were still some wispy clouds passing through, I was trying to hand hold the screen (a sheet of paper with it own typical defects) still by myself (my wife was too tired/bored to continue), trying to get the Sun's image focused on the screen, and trying to get my hand-held camera (with the close-up lens installed) focused on the projected image on the screen while I got a shot. There was a definite shortage of hands and supports, and I consider the photo quality to be quite poor. I'm a bit amazed that I can even see a dot that is probably the shadow of Venus -- I wouldn't claim the shot to be revealing any other astronomical features.

But since you requested it, here is the link to the image as it came from the camera, with no cropping and no size adjustments. It is 3008x2000 pixels and runs 2.6MB on my computer. I doubt you'll find anything new, but have at it.

http://www.4-sqr.com/images/Vegas/Venus/Venus_12_HD.jpg

For all I can tell, this image is the result of a mammogram that argues for a biopsy.
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June 5th, 2012 at 6:57:51 PM permalink
I'm getting a decent webcast here. It's still got some time left:

http://www.exploratorium.edu/venus/
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June 5th, 2012 at 6:59:43 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

Thanks for sharing the pictures Doc.


You and all the others are most welcome. Credit goes mainly to the others in this thread, plus their links, that told me how to do it. More preparation and a couple more tripods might have lead to better results.
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June 5th, 2012 at 7:04:28 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Seriously? Well, I seriously doubt it would be possible, considering how I got the pictures.



Yadda, yadda, yadda. You need to have some of your modesty surgically removed ;)

Quote:

http://www.4-sqr.com/images/Vegas/Venus/Venus_12_HD.jpg

For all I can tell, this image is the result of a mammogram that argues for a biopsy.



I do see a definite sunspot. Some possible ones, too. And I think you got the halo on Venus.

You may not want to hear this, but you're a genius with the camera.
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kmumf
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June 5th, 2012 at 8:14:58 PM permalink
Nice setup Doc. Thanks for the photos.
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June 5th, 2012 at 8:33:23 PM permalink
I got these. I completely missed my chance to see the black drop effect because I'm an idiot and don't know the gear well enough. Next time I'll be ready. :)




This is with the higher-magnification eyepiece.

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June 5th, 2012 at 8:47:27 PM permalink
Quote: QuadDeuces

I got these. I completely missed my chance to see the black drop effect because I'm an idiot and don't know the gear well enough. Next time I'll be ready. :)



Nice shots! what kind of telescope did you use?

I've no idea when Mercury will transit. It's a problematical little planet, hard to make out. But you should get ready for the upcoming total solar eclipse in August 21st 2017. That's much more worthy to photograph too.
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Doc
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June 5th, 2012 at 8:57:44 PM permalink
Nice shots, QuadDeuces. It looks as if you started out with better optical equipment than the $10 pair of binoculars that I used.

As for being ready next time, how about giving me a call a couple of weeks in advance of the next transit of Venus, so we can try to shoot it together?
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:05:59 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

As for being ready next time, how about giving me a call a couple of weeks in advance of the next transit of Venus, so we can try to shoot it together?



Unfortunately the next transit is in 2117.

But Mercury happens to be more cooperative. It will next transit the Sun in May 9th 2016, and then again on Nov 11th 2019.
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Doc
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:07:36 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Unfortunately the next transit is in 2117.



Can't sneak sarcasm past you now, can I?
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June 5th, 2012 at 9:28:38 PM permalink
Quote: Doc

Can't sneak sarcasm past you now, can I?



It's hard to tell online without smileys. That's why I buy them in bulk ;) (see?)
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June 5th, 2012 at 11:23:11 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Nice shots! what kind of telescope did you use?



It's an old Jason refractor, like from the late 70s/early 80s with a 60mm objective and a 910mm focal length. Nice solar projection screen included. It mounts directly to the tube. I'll post a gear pic before I put it up.

I regret letting the camera's auto-exposure do the work. I should have locked the exposure on a gray card instead. Should have enabled bracketing too. Might have gotten more auto-luck.

Quote:

I've no idea when Mercury will transit. It's a problematical little planet, hard to make out. But you should get ready for the upcoming total solar eclipse in August 21st 2017. That's much more worthy to photograph too.



Next two Mercury transits appear to be 2016-May-09, 2019-Nov-11.

I can't plan that far ahead but I can certainly think of worse places to be than Idaho Falls, Idaho or Casper, Wyoming in August, 2017 for a total eclipse.
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June 6th, 2012 at 6:48:12 AM permalink
Quote: QuadDeuces

It's an old Jason refractor, like from the late 70s/early 80s with a 60mm objective and a 910mm focal length.



Sweet.

Quote:

I can't plan that far ahead but I can certainly think of worse places to be than Idaho Falls, Idaho or Casper, Wyoming in August, 2017 for a total eclipse.



Well, not plan, but you can read up on techniques for shooting an eclipse, and maybe even get a solar filter for the telescope (though you still should not look through it). Certainly a camera mount for the eyepiece, or however that works in this era of digital cameras (I've herad of amazing shots of galaxies using webcams).

I stayed up until midnight watching the webcast. By then Venus barely was leaving the Solar disk.

Curiosuly, though, this event gave me a reason to understand why Clarke wrote a story about a transit of Earth as seen from Mars... Unfortunately I lost the book the story was in.
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