Will China have a convertible currency in the next 4 years
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Apr. 14, 2012
China took a milestone step in turning the yuan into a global currency on Saturday by doubling the size of its trading band against the dollar, pushing through a crucial reform that further liberalizes its nascent financial markets.
The People’s Bank of China said it would allow the yuan to rise or fall 1 per cent from a mid-point every day, effective Monday, compared with its previous 0.5 per cent limit.
What if the Yuan changes to the point from the present 100 Yuan= US$16 to the point where 100 Yuan= US$30 . Will that make everything better in the US if all our imported goods are more expensive? What about all the western countries that use China as cheap labor.
What will happen about petrodollars? Will there be another contender for currency where oil is priced?
By 2020 we will wonder what all the China fuss was about and they will join the USSR and Japan in the list of "why were we so worried?"
Quote: AZDuffmanTheir domestic economy is still kind of a mess when you peel the layers back. Half the population living in third world poverty and building roads and cities that are unused. A banking system that makes 2008 look like peanuts.
By 2020 we will wonder what all the China fuss was about and they will join the USSR and Japan in the list of "why were we so worried?"
Only 57 per cent of the world’s population, get their drinking water from a piped connection that provides running water in their homes or compound.
In China, 89 per cent of the population has access to drinking-water from improved sources in 2010, up from 67 per cent in 1990. Between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 do not have access to modern sanitation.
But the population of the USA is 23.3% of that of China. What if the top fifth of China becomes the same as the USA? Will it matter if a portion of the country is very poor?
Quote: pacomartinOnly 57 per cent of the world’s population, get their drinking water from a piped connection that provides running water in their homes or compound.
In China, 89 per cent of the population has access to drinking-water from improved sources in 2010, up from 67 per cent in 1990. Between 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 do not have access to modern sanitation.
But the population of the USA is 23.3% of that of China. What if the top fifth of the USA becomes the same as the USA? Will it matter if a portion of the country is very poor?
I'm not quite sure what the last sentence means.
While the USA has income disparity, it is not "regionalized" like in China. Yes, we have a whole lot of "lower east side" neighborhoods. But for the most part income distribution is fairly even geographically. China, OTOH, is a coastal area that is booming and an inland area in poverty. Picture if the east coast of the USA was as rich as it is but after you got to the Appalacians/Mississippi River the rest was making $2 a day on average. If you can picture that you can picture China.
STRATFOR gives an interesting insight to China's economy. Most of it is not profitable. Razor thin margins because the whole place is based on "we work cheap." They are selling near cost, which brings in cash but it flows out just as fast. They are building all kinds of bullet-trains that people like Obama marvel over, but there is no profitibility in them. Modern "ghost towns" spring up, no residents. Just a sino-version of "pay people to dig holes and pay others to fill them in."
Asian "miricle economies" seem to boom for about 30 years. During this time they may do low value added work as textiles. Some specialize such as Japan and electronics. They are almost always the result of an "industrial policy" to push one or a few industries. Diminishing returns take their toll and the laws of economics, which are as strong as the laws of physics, take over. Eventually a crash. Then restructuring and better health (S Korea) or stagnation (Japan.)
Quote: AZDuffmanPicture if the east coast of the USA was as rich as it is but after you got to the Appalacians/Mississippi River the rest was making $2 a day on average. If you can picture that you can picture China.
Before WWII, this described large portions of the USA.
Many rural areas didn't even have electricity. But the
war so devastated Germany and Japan and most of
Europe, and didn't touch us on the homefront, that we
recovered quickly and became a superpower economically
and militarily.
The reasons for the popularity of shows in the 50's and
60's like The Real McCoys, Beverly Hillbillies, Green Acres,
Petticoat Junction, was because we had people in this
country who still lived like that, clueless country bumpkins
who were still in the 19th century culturally and economically.
Thats all gone now, everywhere you travel there are Burger
Kings and Walmarts and satellite TV. Until China has that
kind of economic success, they will always be a third world
country. There are no shortcuts, they have a long way to
go.
Quote: AZDuffmanI'm not quite sure what the last sentence means.
While the USA has income disparity, it is not "regionalized" like in China. Yes, we have a whole lot of "lower east side" neighborhoods. But for the most part income distribution is fairly even geographically. China, OTOH, is a coastal area that is booming and an inland area in poverty. Picture if the east coast of the USA was as rich as it is but after you got to the Appalacians/Mississippi River the rest was making $2 a day on average. If you can picture that you can picture China.
I had a typo in the last sentence.
But the entire Western Hemisphere (North and South America) is about 70% of the population of China. Roughly 1:3 people in the Western Hemisphere live in the USA.
There is considerable economic interdependence within the 35 countries of the Western Hemisphere. There is also a fairly wide range of standard of living (not as wide as the Eastern hemisphere).
I am not sure if pointing out the extreme poverty in China with it's huge population, is like pointing out that the Western hemisphere has very poor people. China could still become a power to equal that of the United States, while still having a large economic range.
Quote: pacomartinChina could still become a power to equal that of the United States, while still having a large economic range.
Maybe. The big equalizer is electric and TV. Thats what
changed the USA. Putting everybody on the grid, giving
everybody access to the same information and education,
having everybody speaking the same language. Part of
the reason the Soviet Union came down was language
barriers and a huge disparity between the have's and
the have not's.
The first country to tie their money to honest money (gold/silver) will be prosperous. Right now our money is tied to oil but this will end one day.
Quote: AceCrAAckers
The first country to tie their money to honest money (gold/silver) will be prosperous. Right now our money is tied to oil but this will end one day.
I'd be for that, but you would need to have a tied-in devaulation or the money supply would rarely expand.
Quote: AceCrAAckersThe first country to tie their money to honest money (gold/silver) will be prosperous. Right now our money is tied to oil but this will end one day.
I think that Switzerland is the only country in the world that has enough gold to back up it's currency.
*49,919,718,468 (value of banknotes and coins in Swiss Francs)
$54,471,897,596 (value of banknotes and coins in US$)
$55,540,481,892 (value of gold reserve in US$) Assuming gold $1,660.90 per troy ounce
But Switzerland's GDP is ten times that amount. There is no gold backing up the electronic transactions.
USA has 19,133.50 tonnes of gold reported in its reserves as of the end of 2010. I think that some people will be surprised to know that at this current inflated price of gold that is theoretically worth over a trillion dollars, which is almost equal to the value of currency in circulation (closer to $1.1 trillion).
Canada has almost no gold left, having sold it all. It's current reserves of 3.4 tonnes, is worth less than 3% of it's currency supply.
Quote: AceCrAAckersThere is a race for all countries to devalue their money. As long as the petro-dollar exist, we can export our dept and import goods and service. Once the price of oil is no longer tied to dollar, and these oil exporters can sell in gold/silver/yuan etc... then there will no longer be a demand for dollar and we will see inflation and our money devalued.
The first country to tie their money to honest money (gold/silver) will be prosperous. Right now our money is tied to oil but this will end one day.
Fiat currency>>>>>>>>>Gold Standard....You act like the "petro dollar" is some sort of law...first of all, oil brokers will take payment in many other currency other than the dollar. The Euro is also a popular form of payment. The reason the dollar has been so popular for so long in the oil industry is because most oil is bought on futures contracts...And the buyer or seller is not going to lose their ass because of movement in currency because the dollar has traditionally been the stablest world currency with a big enough M0 to be used in such a market. The dollar is used in many other markets than just oil....Japan primary trades exports to 3rd world counties in dollars only. So do many other businesses in other counties....What business wants to take a large payment for goods in a currency that is very unstable? That might drop 10% in value in a matter of days. This is why they trade in dollars because they know the currency is stable....If these counties/business' found another currency they liked better to trade in....Oh well the Fed would just shrink M0...its not rocket science....Being the worlds "reserve currency" is really no big advantage to the US, other than it gives the Fed a little more room to maneuver in open market operations....
Don't even get me started on the gold standard.....It's ridiculous to have a currency based on a shinny metal with almost zero utility...
Quote: vert1276Don't even get me started on the gold standard.....It's ridiculous to have a currency based on a shinny metal with almost zero utility...
I agree with that statement. The latest observation as of 2012-04-11 is that the banknotes and coins of the US currency is $1.100922 trillion dollars. Now with gold prices this high the value of our gold reserve is just over a trillion dollars.
So what if we tie the currency to the available gold. If gold prices go down do we destroy banknotes? If gold prices go up do we print more? The high gold price is a function of fear about the dollar. So how does having enough gold to cover the currency somehow make it the currency more stable?
U.K., Australia, Canada, and New Zealand all sold their gold roughly a decade ago thinking that gold was obsolete. Can these countries issue currency anymore?
Mexico has 30 times as much gold as Canada. The value of currencies issued by Mexico and Canada are worth about the same. But Canada has less than a third of the population of Mexico. Neither Canada nor Mexico comes close to having enough gold to cover their currencies. Should they not have money.
Quote: pacomartinWhat if the top fifth of China becomes the same as the USA? Will it matter if a portion of the country is very poor?
I think it does matter. There are still a couple hundred million
Chinese that don't have access to electric, they're living like
they did 300 years ago. Terrible poverty like that is always
a noose around a countries neck. Even our poorest in the
US have electricity. Most have a fridge, a TV, an air
conditioner and a cell phone. Poor Chinese have a mud
hut and a few chickens and a small rice paddy.
Quote: EvenBobI think it does matter. There are still a couple hundred million
Chinese that don't have access to electric, they're living like
they did 300 years ago. Terrible poverty like that is always
a noose around a countries neck. Even our poorest in the
US have electricity. Most have a fridge, a TV, an air
conditioner and a cell phone. Poor Chinese have a mud
hut and a few chickens and a small rice paddy.
I agree with you that even in Latin America there are only about 30 million people with no electricity, and hardly anyone in the USA. Virtually everyone in the USA has some access to sanitation and clean water.
The latest number I have seen on China & East Asia was 183 million people without electricity, which is nearly the population of Brazil. There is probably some overlap with the 100 million with no access to disease free water.
My mother (age 75) tells me that when she grew up they had a single light bulb in the house, and an outhouse. During the day, they could unplug the lightbulb and screw in a socket so they could iron clothes. They heated hot water on the coal stove for baths and to wash dishes. I think they used candles in the bedrooms, but since there was no central heat, you pretty much crawled under the covers once you were in the bedroom. My uncle died under those conditions from complications from scarlet fever.
However, I am not sure that terrible poverty is a noose. I think that high development and extreme wealth can easily co-exist.
See: Poorest poor hit record high in the USA. "Poorest Poor" by definition is living on 50% of the poverty level.
Quote: pacomartinHowever, I am not sure that terrible poverty is a noose. I think that high development and extreme wealth can easily co-exist.
They easily coexist everywhere, but those countries never thrive.
We've only thrived since the end of WWII. My dad's family in
W VA didn't get electric till 1946. We didn't start building the
interstates till the late 50's. Universities didn't start thriving till
the 1950's, when a college education was becoming necessary
to get a good job.
This was a bumpkin nation before the war. Vast parts of it had
no electric, no paved roads, no access to higher education. Zenith
and Philco sold tons of 'farm' radios in the 30's and 40's that ran on
batteries. Most rural people didn't have phones. All this is in the living
memory of millions of Americans.
Until China gets its infrastructure in place, like we did, they'll never
always be a bumpkin nation, just like we were.
Quote: EvenBobThis was a bumpkin nation before the war. Vast parts of it had no electric, no paved roads, no access to higher education.
I'm not sure what part of the world was not like that in the 1930's except for urban Europe.
take a moment to think about it before you look below
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Iran, Iraq, Lybia
Saudi cannot accept gold, silver, Euro, or even their own Saudi money for oil. Name the country that accept Euro for oil. Answer none. Dollar iis the most stable currency. Candy bar used to cost 15 cents when I was a kid. How much is it now? You can buy gas for 20 cents face value silver coins, how much is gas now. Just so we are clear, when you are talking about the Fed, you are not talking about the federal government but the federal reserve which is a private central bank. When you put your faith in the "Fed", you are putting your faith in a private central bank which are trying to make most money for themselves like any private corporations do.
Answer this question, why cant Saudi sell their oil for their own currency or for euro or gold or silver other than the dollar.
There are no country that can sell oil in anything other than the dollar.
Yea, I like basing the currency on paper and digtal account that we can create to infinity and beyond. This is so much less ridiculous. And by the way, the more zeros after the number the better it is. I say get some Zimbawe dollars and become a quadrillionaire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHjjUZugFCE&feature=g-like&context=G2990634ALT2dkDwAQAA
Quote: AceCrAAckersDon't even get me started on the gold standard.....It's ridiculous to have a currency based on a shinny metal with almost zero utility..
Yea, I like basing the currency on paper and digtal account that we can create to infinity and beyond. This is so much less ridiculous. And by the way, the more zeros after the number the better it is. I say get some Zimbawe dollars and become a quadrillionaire.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHjjUZugFCE&feature=g-like&context=G2990634ALT2dkDwAQAA
I already explained this to you once in another thread on here and don't feel like doing it again....a "true gold standard" can not work in a global economy...this is a fact...unless you want to have crushing deflation in countries that have trade defects like the US....because you would be unable to have floating currency exchanges. The only way it could work is with a Bretton Woods gold standard which the US used from 1944 till 1971....But it was abandoned because it was a horrible system....
You can create an "infatuate" currency with a gold standard as well....post WWI Germany was on a gold standard when they had hyper inflation....If one central banks created bank notes that are 1 note = 1oz of gold and another countries central bank creates bank notes where 1000 notes = 1 oz of gold....obviously there currencies will not evenly exchange 1 for 1.....And I always wonder why the "pro gold standard" people focus on the "digital" aspect much.....Does it matter if the money is recorded on a hard drive or on a paper bank ledger in a vault? You have fractional reserve banking either way...
read though the other thread where I explained this to you please...I don't feel like doing it again
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/6323-the-biggest-scam-of-all-time/
Quote: vert1276I already explained this to you once in another thread on here and don't feel like doing it again....a "true gold standard" can not work in a global economy...this is a fact...unless you want to have crushing deflation in countries that have trade defects like the US....because you would be unable to have floating currency exchanges. The only way it could work is with a Bretton Woods gold standard which the US used from 1944 till 1971....But it was abandoned because it was a horrible system....
You can create an "infatuate" currency with a gold standard as well....post WWI Germany was on a gold standard when they had hyper inflation....If one central banks created bank notes that are 1 note = 1oz of gold and another countries central bank creates bank notes where 1000 notes = 1 oz of gold....obviously there currencies will not evenly exchange 1 for 1.....And I always wonder why the "pro gold standard" people focus on the "digital" aspect much.....Does it matter if the money is recorded on a hard drive or on a paper bank ledger in a vault? You have fractional reserve banking either way...
read though the other thread where I explained this to you please...I don't feel like doing it again
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/6323-the-biggest-scam-of-all-time/
I'm with you vert. I hope the government prints some $1,000,000 notes and pass these out to everyone so we can all be millionaires. Go high denomination note.
BUG OUT TO NORTH KOREA W/ ZIMBABWE CURRENCY.
Quote: AceCrAAckersDon't even get me started on the gold standard.....It's ridiculous to have a currency based on a shinny metal with almost zero utility...
Yea, I like basing the currency on paper and digtal account that we can create to infinity and beyond. This is so much less ridiculous. And by the way, the more zeros after the number the better it is. I say get some Zimbawe dollars and become a quadrillionaire.
The Swiss franc had a legal requirement that a minimum of 40% be backed by gold reserves. However, this link to gold, which dates from the 1920s, was terminated on 1 May 2000 following a referendum.
The Swiss franc went past US$1.30 (CHF 0.769 per U.S. dollar) as of August 2011. So the 1000 CHF was worth $1300. But there are only 28 million of these banknotes in circulation, as opposed 593 million 500 Euro notes and 8 billion USA $100 notes. Canada has 300 million $100 notes, and Japan has 7-8 billion 10,000 Yen notes (worth US$123 apiece), but they don't circulate much outside of Japan.
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FYI: Benjamins are 75% of the value of all banknotes in the USA.There is enough gold in the reserve to back the new color $100 banknotes (when they are finally released). I would recommend not printing any new $50 bills so that they gradually fall into minimum use (right now they are the least popular bill after the $2 bill, and are circulating at only 4 per capita). That would emphasize the difference between the ordinary money (mostly the $20) and gold backed cash.
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The Bank of England was formed in 1694, and began to issue paper money (the world's first fiat currency). The Pound Sterling bought one troy pound (12 troy ounces) of silver. Today 12 troy ounces of silver costs almost exactly 240 GBP, so we can say that the word's first fiat currency has lost 239/240 of it's value since 1694 which works out to 1.7% per year.
So you have more confidence in a piece of gold? Why? It has no utility(well almost no utility)....you cant eat it or drink it or tell it to plow your fields or pick your crops.....It was picked as a medium because it was rare, easy to strike into a coin and most importantly impossible to counterfeit....other than that there is magic behind it....The love affair with gold is just silly
Quote: vert1276a currency is just a medium of exchange...nothing more nothing less....We have it so the baker don't have to trade his loafs of bread to the rancher for beef.....It works off of confidence....
Banknotes in the UK per person is £823 =$1,300 in very small banknotes. There are only three £50 banknotes per capita. That's about 3.6% of the GDP PPP. Virtually none of it circulates outside of the country. They may even reduce that amount if electronic transactions become more popular.
I think that currency in that country is just a medium of exchange. It's a relatively minor thing in the financial life of the country.
UK talks about a cashless society
Quote: pacomartinBanknotes in the UK per person is £823 =$1,300 in very small banknotes. There are only three £50 banknotes per capita. That's about 3.6% of the GDP PPP. Virtually none of it circulates outside of the country. They may even reduce that amount if electronic transactions become more popular.
I think that currency in that country is just a medium of exchange. It's a relatively minor thing in the financial life of the country.
is there a point to this post?
Quote: vert1276is there a point to this post?
It is not just a medium of exchange in America and Europe. We print way more money than we use for everyday transaction, with a goal of circulating it around the world. Instead of a limited number of high value banknotes to aid in some legal transactions like buying and selling of used cars, we print enough of them to function as storehouses of value without the ability to leave a traceable trail.
I was illustrating an economy that uses currency only as a lubricant for normal commerce.
Quote: pacomartinIt is not just a medium of exchange in America and Europe. We print way more money than we use for everyday transaction, with a goal of circulating it around the world. Instead of a limited number of high value banknotes to aid in some legal transactions like buying and selling of used cars, we print enough of them to function as storehouses of value without the ability to leave a traceable trail.
I was illustrating an economy that uses currency only as a lubricant for normal commerce.
So it matter what the denomination of the bank note is? 700 billion of the 1.1 trillion in circulation is $100 because most bank notes sit in bank vaults...no one uses cash anymore. the US has about 3k in circulation per capita. You think that's "way more than we need"? You realize increasing M0 doesn't always cause infatuation right?
Quote: vert1276So it matter what the denomination of the bank note is? 700 billion of the 1.1 trillion in circulation is $100 because most bank notes sit in bank vaults...no one uses cash anymore. the US has about 3k in circulation per capita. You think that's "way more than we need"? You realize increasing M0 doesn't always cause infatuation right?
I do realize that increasing M0 does not always cause inflation. I never said that.
$1100.922/313.4 MILLION = $3,513 per person. The Benjamins were $780 billion at end of 2011, so it is about $800 billion by now (up 2.5%).
The $100 banknote is not sitting in bank vaults, about 80% of them are circulating overseas.
It is way more than we need for a medium of exchange for garden variety commerce.
If it was true that "no one uses cash anymore", then why are we increasing cash as a % of GDP ?
Quote:The $100 banknote is not sitting in bank vaults, about 80% of them are circulating overseas.
where is this data coming from? While there are large amounts of cash overseas....it is not "circulating" its sitting in other nations central banks. And is used for currency exchanges. Just as our central banks holds currency from every nation around the world as well...It just so happens that the Dollar is used in international transactions more than other currencies so very bank is sure to have a lot on hand. Secondly China hold a lot of US currency because they are peggin theirs against the dollar.
Quote:If it was true that "no one uses cash anymore", then why are we increasing cash as a % of GDP ?
Is this a serious question? The Fed increases the monetary supply to control deflation and interest rates. Just because people are not using the paper version of their money it doesn't mean it is not being used...its just being used through bank cheques and ATM cards....Kinda like at one point no one wanted to carry gold....so they deposited it in banks and let the banks issue bank notes, cheques to them instead.
Quote: vert1276where is this data coming from? While there are large amounts of cash overseas....it is not "circulating" its sitting in other nations central banks. And is used for currency exchanges. Just as our central banks holds currency from every nation around the world as well...It just so happens that the Dollar is used in international transactions more than other currencies so very bank is sure to have a lot on hand. Secondly China hold a lot of US currency because they are peggin theirs against the dollar.
Is this a serious question? The Fed increases the monetary supply to control deflation and interest rates. Just because people are not using the paper version of their money it doesn't mean it is not being used...its just being used through bank cheques and ATM cards....Kinda like at one point no one wanted to carry gold....so they deposited it in banks and let the banks issue bank notes, cheques to them instead.
FOREX is not held in warehouses full of currency. It is held in the form of government bonds. China has $3 trillion in FOREX, a significant portion of which is US dollars. There is only $800 billion in hundred dollar bills in the entire world. The Chinese National Bank does not have truckloads of Benjamins, they have a stack of government bonds.
The Fed increases and decreases the monetary supply mostly by changing the reserve requirements for the banks. The currency supply of the US dollar is only increased, in both absolute numbers and as a percent of GDP. It is never decreased.
You are misinterpreting a lot of what I am saying. I know that currency is not the same as money. I am not saying that currency policy is the same as monetary policy.
But currency is a way to get interest free loans from around the world. It also has dangers because it is untraceable. While some of that is benign (a husband doesn't want his gift to his wife to show up on the credit card receipt), much of it is illegal. The cost of handling currency is considerable, and is a severe burden for small business.
But this has been Canada's economic policy for the past 10 years.
According to the Canadian government, "The legislative objective of the EFA, as specified in the Currency Act, is to aid in the control and protection of the external value of the Canadian dollar. Assets held in the EFA are managed to provide foreign currency liquidity to the Government and to promote orderly conditions for the Canadian dollar in the foreign exchange markets, if required. Under the Currency Act, the Minister of Finance has the authority to acquire, borrow, sell or lend assets held in the EFA in accordance with the Statement of IThe legislative objective of the EFA, as specified in the Currency Act, is to aid in the control and protection of the external value of the Canadian dollar. Assets held in the EFA are managed to provide foreign currency liquidity to the Government and to promote orderly conditions for the Canadian dollar in the foreign exchange markets, if required. Under the Currency Act, the Minister of Finance has the authority to acquire, borrow, sell or lend assets held in the EFA in accordance with the Statement of Investment Policy."
I am not an ecomonist, but Canada doesn't own alot of gold.
Quote: boymimboCanada's reserves as at April 15th stand at 35.4 billion USD, 20.3 billion in other currency (98.5% Euro, 1.5% Yen), 182 million in gold, 9 billion in "special drawing rights" and 4.1 billion in reserves.
I am not an ecomonist, but Canada doesn't own alot of gold.
Canada had 500 tons as recently as 1989, and went to it's present 3.4 tons roughly ten years ago. The peak was over 1000 tons in 1965. Today 1000 short tons would be $48 billion dollars, or 1000 metric tonnes would be $53 billions, Canada has $60 billion in currency in circulation.
I am surprised that Canada is no longer holding US dollars. They used to try and hedge investments by holding equal parts US dollars, Euros, Japanese Yen and SDRs.
Roughly ten to twenty years ago the Anglo nations of UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ all sold most of their gold, thinking that it was a poor long term investment. Some people are obviously miffed about that.
Explain why you sold Britain's gold, Gordon Brown told
Quote:Roughly ten to twenty years ago the Anglo nations of UK, Canada, Australia, and NZ all sold most of their gold, thinking that it was a poor long term investment. Some people are obviously miffed about that.
you know if you would have bought an oz of gold in 1982 and sold it today...inflation adjusted you would have lost over $1000 on your investment?.....
Quote: vert1276you know if you would have bought an oz of gold in 1982 and sold it today...inflation adjusted you would have lost over $1000 on your investment?.....
You know if you did not buy an oz of gold in 1982 and just held it in the bank you ..... inflation adjusted you would have lost over $5000 on you investment?.....
Quote: AceCrAAckersYou know if you did not buy an oz of gold in 1982 and just held it in the bank you ..... inflation adjusted you would have lost over $5000 on you investment?.....
what are you talking about? are you just making shit up now LOL... in 1980 gold was $615oz....Even a safe investment in an annuity earning 10% (which was low for 1980) that would be worth over 15K today....Gold was a bad investment then and it is one now as well.....
Quote: EvenBobI think it does matter. There are still a couple hundred million Chinese that don't have access to electric, they're living like they did 300 years ago.
I found some more detail.
Although the number quoted was 182 million in China and East Asia, only about 8 million are from China. So electricity is nearly universal in China.
I don't know what that means. It may mean 15 Amp service or just enough to keep lights on and plug in an iron or a television or charge a phone. There may not be enough to heat water or heat a room or run a refrigerator.
For the Western Hemisphere, these countries have less than 92% electrification
Haiti 38.5%
Honduras 70.3%
Nicaragua 72.1%
Bolivia 77.5%
Guatemala 80.5%
Peru 85.7%
El Salvador 86.4%
Panama 88.1%
Sub-Saharan Africa is only 30% electrified, with some countries like Uganda and Malawi only 9% electrified.
Quote: vert1276what are you talking about? are you just making shit up now LOL... in 1980 gold was $615oz....Even a safe investment in an annuity earning 10% (which was low for 1980) that would be worth over 15K today....Gold was a bad investment then and it is one now as well.....
Gold increased by value at an annual rate of slightly more than 3%.
Quote: vert1276what are you talking about? are you just making shit up now LOL... in 1980 gold was $615oz....Even a safe investment in an annuity earning 10% (which was low for 1980) that would be worth over 15K today....Gold was a bad investment then and it is one now as well.....
The average price of gold in 1982 was $375.81. Are you out of your mind about 10% annuity earning. At 10% annuity that $375.81 would be $6718. If you kept that $375.81 under your mattress, the purchasing power of that dollars will be $158 today. If you bought 1 oz of gold, it would be worth $1650 and if you adjust if for inflation you would still be (1650-895) or still ahead $755.
What safe investment pays 10% annuity? Like Enron stocks or Greek bonds. What the hell are you talking about? What paid that over the last 30 years?
Gold and SILVER is not an investment, it is money albiet not currency!
Australia and China created a bilateral currency swap arrangement between the Reserve Bank and the Bank of China earlier in 2012 which will reduce transaction and hedging costs between two major trading partners.
If the yuan is to develop into a reserve currency it would also need to liberalize and renovate its rigidly controlled banking system (where there have been some tentative positive steps recently), it would have to completely open up its capital account (where, again, there has been some movement at the margin) and radically overhaul its legal structures and processes. It would need to develop deep, liquid and sophisticated financial markets. It would have to turn its back on the command-and-control approach the state has taken to managing its economy and financial system and embrace markets and transparency.
