Should the $500 banknote be revived
Poll
 | 81 votes (77.88%) | ||
| | 7 votes (6.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (11.53%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.84%) |
104 members have voted
Quote: BozGold & Silver Pawn Store is selling $500 notes for $1150. I would like to see them back just to end this type madness.
There were 420,000 notes of denomination $500 printed in the 1928 series. Although the decision was not formally made until 1969 to stop printing banknotes higher than $100, it was basically a decision to keep the status quo. Although banks were now supposed to turn in $500 banknotes for destruction, in reality probably most of them were immediately sold to private collectors.
To increase $500 to $1150 over 84 years (from 1928 to 2012) is about 1% per year, which is pretty poor return for a collectible. But for a collectible something numbering in the hundreds of thousands is not normally very valuable.
For the $1,000 banknote there were 288,000 printed in 1928, and another 84,000 printed in 1934.
For the $5,000 banknote there were 24,000 printed in 1928, which makes it the rarest denomination ever printed.
For the $10,000 banknote there were 48,000 printed in 1928, and another 36,000 printed in 1934.
For the $100,000 banknote there were 42,000 printed in 1934. But as these notes were never circulated to the general public, I think most were destroyed. Since that amounts to $4.2 billion dollars in the super high banknotes, it represented a significant portion of the net worth of the nation.
Before 1969 the total production of $100 banknotes from 1928 forward was: 231.708 million
The Fed would go on to print another 600 million $100 notes under the Nixon, Ford and Carter presidencies.
No the 2006 series of $100 notes reached 4.5 billion when they switched over to producing the new color $100 notes, and the disaster began.
We call it an ATM, Cash Point, Hole In The Wall etc. Actually you can do quite a lot on them including: see/print balances, (some) see/print latest statements, (some) pay in cash or cheques, (some) make payments (assuming you have already set up the payees) and off course take out cash. I actually always use an ATM to pay in a cheque since it gives a receipt with a small picture of the cheque (neat eh!).Quote: EvenBobIts not Automated Teller Machine? What do people think it is.
Quote: EvenBobIts not Automated Teller Machine? What do people think it is.
Most people say Automatic Teller Machine, as very few people think about the difference between automated and automatic. Try it as a trivia question to people, and see what they say.
Quote: pacomartinMost people say Automatic Teller Machine,
Thats what I thought of first, and changed it
because its obviously not automatic.
Quote: pacomartinMost people say Automatic Teller Machine, as very few people think about the difference between automated and automatic. Try it as a trivia question to people, and see what they say.
Yep, that's what I said in my head.
Quote: EvenBobSounds like a new waitress question for the Wiz..
I think for many people if you correct them, they will think "off course", that makes sense. But a surprising number of people will ask you "What is the difference?", and they are not English as Second Language people.
'automatic' because it shifts the gears
without me having to do it manually. A
teller machine has to be specifically told
what to do in every step of the operation.
Its not automatic.
Quote: rdw4potusThat said, the bills were pretty amazing. I would say that my $1k in $100 polymer notes had the same total thickness as the three U.S. bills that were also in my wallet. So, even at the same denomination, the polymer bills would take up less space and make carrying a bigger bankroll easier.
That might be beacsue the notes were new and perfectly flat. A "brick" of any 100 notes is smaller when made up of new bills than when it contains older bills. This holds true both of paper and polymer notes.
Quote:One thing that was a little scary - the brand new bills seemed to static cling together. Several times, I had to double check to make sure that I wasn't being shorted $100 on a table-game buyin.
Yes, well, that happens when you rub two thin pieces of plastic together. I don't think there's any help for it but to be careful.
Quote: QuadDeuces"ATM Machine" "PCV Valve"
I understand that you are questioning/mocking the redundancy of "ATM Machine", with the "M" standing for "Machine", but what's wrong with "PCV Valve"? Isn't that "Positive Crankcase Ventilation Valve"? There doesn't seem to be any redundancy there, so I missed the point of your post.
Quote: DocThere doesn't seem to be any redundancy there, so I missed the point of your post.
I think you got him on that one.
Another widely misunderstood acronym is
EMU- European Monetary Union
In reality the acronym is:
EMU- Economic and Monetary Union
Quote: DocI understand that you are questioning/mocking the redundancy of "ATM Machine", with the "M" standing for "Machine",
That's "pleaonasm" rather than "redundancy." Here's my favorite:
Banco BBVA Bancomer = Banco Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria Banco de Comercio.
Three "Bancos" for the pric eof one, and not a Baccarat table in even one of them ;)
Quote: NareedThat's "pleaonasm" rather than "redundancy."
Hmmm, "pleanonasm" ... is that one of your typos, this time for "onanism"?
When the 500 Euro note was removed from sale in Britain, the business was selling roughly 1 million notes per year. The police in the UK felt that 90% of the notes were being used for illegal activity.
It is still legal to bring them in as a tourist and exchange them. They just can't be resold.
They found that people can successfully swallow 300 banknotes and retrieve them. Clearly you are better off swallowing a 500 Euro note than a pack of £50 notes.
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Quote: DocHmmm, "pleanonasm" ... is that one of your typos, this time for "onanism"?
Do you know the years of practice, utter indiference and complete inattention to detail it takes to produce typos of this quality? :P
A recent story about waitress whose customer left a to-go box from another restaurant on the table. Knutson followed the woman to her car to return the box to her.
"No I am good, you keep it," the woman said, according to the lawsuit.
Knutson did not know the woman and has not seen her since, Richie said. Knutson thought it was "strange" that the woman told her to keep it but she took it inside. The box felt too heavy to be leftovers, Ritchie said, so she opened it -- only to find bundles of cash wrapped in rubber bands.
The waitress did call the police, but she expected to get the money once the investigation was complete. The police said the money smelled like marijuana, and have decided to keep it since obviously no one has claimed it. They want to give the waitress $1K as a reward.
---
It is impossible to say what happened in this situation. The most probable story is that the customer was picking up leftovers and possibly was being set up as an ignorant cash mule. Presumably she had no idea what she was giving away, but since it was illegal money, she couldn't claim it later.
Larger bills may minimize the moving around of small boxes of cash.
Quote: pacomartin
Larger bills may minimize the moving around of small boxes of cash.
First, LOL! This line made my night. Second, and I'm somewhat serious here: do polymer bills retain the scent/residue of drugs any differently than paper bills do?
Quote: rdw4potusFirst, LOL! This line made my night. Second, and I'm somewhat serious here: do polymer bills retain the scent/residue of drugs any differently than paper bills do?
I don't think they do. Part of the reason they last longer is that they last longer is that they don't pick up moisture or oil from your hands.
A few articles about Sweden:
Sweden Edges Closer To Becoming Cashless Society
Sweden moving towards cashless economy
The articles are full of concern about church donations, street beggars, tips, old people uncomfortable with cashless transactions, and government's ability to track every single transaction, plus the fear that banks are interested in adding a fee to all transactions. There are many people who feel a small underground economy and private transactions are good for society. Most people assume that a Euro notes will circulate if Swedish notes are severely curtailed.
Sweden has Bjoern Ulvaeus from ABBA, who is a vocal proponent for a world without cash. His primary argument is personal safety.
I think the articles which miss some key points. First of all Iceland is the world leader in a nearly cashless society. However, when the banks all went bankrupt, the demand for banknotes nearly doubled.
Also Sweden has not really made any attempt to curtail large banknotes. They are circulating about 3 of their largest banknotes per capita (worth about US$150 apiece) and 12 per capita of 500 Swedish Crown banknotes (worth US$75 apiece). In contrast both the UK and New Zealand are only circulating about 3 per capita of their largest banknote (worth roughly US$80).
However, in the larger picture, I think one of the Nordic nations will be the first one to do away with cash. Primarily it is because it will be a good way to help secure their borders. While major criminals may be able to move value via Euros, diamonds, gold, or even jewelry or paintings, the kind of economy that supports illegal immigration is about paying small amounts of untraceable payments to people for services, or to rent rooms for single unit occupancy.
I think the desire to seal the borders will end up trumping other concerns.
Sweden still has a banknote for 20 kronor. Denmark and Norway have converted their equivalent value into coins.
At one time, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Iceland had a monetary union, and the currencies could be freely spent in each others countries at a 1:1 fixed rate. The Scandinavian Monetary Union was dissolved upon the outbreak of WWI.
Right now Iceland may abandon their currency altogether. Denmark is fixed to the Euro (within a very narrow band). Norway is not in the EU, but their crown trades at about the same rate as Denmark's crown. Sweden is in the EU, but does not hold to the narrow band. The Swedish Crown is worth less than that of Denmark and Norway.
Quote: AcesAndEightsAnyone know if it's possible, legally, to get 500 Euro notes in the US? I know that place in the UK that was changing them stopped due to concerns over organized crime.
The European Central Bank peaked circulation of the 500 Euro note at 600 million notes, in November 2011. They have since backed off to about 593 million notes. That is a fair number since there are only a little more than 300 million people in the EMU.
The total value of just the 500 Euro notes in circulation is just under US$390 billion. The total value of the 50,100, & 200 Euro notes is another US$640 billion. The US is circulating $1033 billion in banknotes, and another $100 billion in coins (much of that is in warehouses).
Britain is extremely wary of large banknotes. They only introduced the modern £50 banknote about 30 years ago, and circulation is about 3 notes per capita. Many places outside of London won't accept them.
It's perfectly legal to buy and sell the note in America. Some people do it as a kind of low level currency speculation. Some people purchase the notes in advance of vacations thinking that they can guess currency movements. I would call the American express and see if they have the notes since most people are probably interested in smaller denominations. You are still not exempt from declaring any combination of currencies on an international flight if they are worth more than US$10,000 combined.
American Express offices
Personally, I have never found it worth the trouble. If possible I try to get a few dollars worth of notes and coins to cover a pay toilet, a sandwich, or a train ride into the city. Then I would go to an ATM and take money out. The fees were always much cheaper than carrying currency, or Traveler checks. Plus credit cards are used nearly everywhere now.
In the $200 million cash horde they found in Mexico, you can see that there are some Euro notes (including 500 Euro notes) in the front.
At last, a Paco question I know the answer to. Automatic Teller Machine. Age does have it's value. In Maryland the first bank to have them ran commercials, and referred to the machines as " Mister Teller ". I remember a break room discussion about who in their right mind would get cash on Charles Street in daylight or at worse after dark? Why not just send the mugger a personal invitation !
Plus a few guys figured out that if you went between 2 and 5 am , you could get more than was in your account. The computers used to go down from 2 till 5 am to update. We knew that because as AT&T techs, we went down at the same time LOL
The boys stopped doing that after getting letters stating any future attempts would lead to bank fraud charges.
Gee, bankers have no sense of humor !!
Quote: buzzpaffAt last, a Paco question I know the answer to. Automatic Teller Machine. Age does have it's value.
Sorry. The answer is Automated Teller Machine. The machines "automate" the process of getting money. "Automatic" means you don't have to do anything at all, they just spit out money when you walk by.
Thought I had hit a Trifecta, someone at Mao Gaming interested in my game, making it as an entrant
in Shufflemaster's focus group, and get your question right.
Oh well, 2 out of 3 ain't that bad !
Quote: buzzpaffJust googled and Wikipedia and others say Automated or Automatic. Can i get partial credit ?!
Oxford definition: automate -verb - convert (a process or facility) to be operated by largely automatic equipment:
Yes, of course. There are many sources that translate theacronym both ways. But my question was originally brought up to highlight two words with related but slightly different meanings. If your gun is an "automatic", you can start and stop the process by pulling a trigger, bought it's actual performance is "automatic" and does not require you to repeatedly pull the trigger.
Your thermostat is automatic, in that it turns your heating, ventilation and air conditioning on and off dependent on temperature changes.
But your bank teller machine is "automated" in that it requires your input repeatedly, until it activated some "automatic" machinery that dispenses your banknotes.
We had a similar discussion about the changes of the word magician. The Greek word "magus" implies a priest, and a learned man. So originally in the middle ages a magician or a magi would be a learned wise man who may or may not be doing things like alchemy. By the 1500's it came to mean exclusively a man who worked in dark magic or sorcery. By 1800 it came to mean a man who was involved in sleight of hand, illusions, distraction, and general showmanship, but who did not work dark powers.
In the King James Bible published in 1604, when they had to translate the Greek word "magi" or "magus" they always used the word "wise men" to avoid negative connotations. When translating the Old Testament, which was written in Hebrew, they would use the word magician to translate "קוסם"
And when a plane is on Auto Pilot, then it has to be on Automatic Pilot in reality ?
Quote: buzzpaffI can say the following sentence, There are three (2's ) in the English language, to, too and two . What would be the proper way to spell (2's)?
And when a plane is on Auto Pilot, then it has to be on Automatic Pilot in reality ?
Well the apostrophe should be used for ownership. If you want to say the animals in Noah's ark were in twos, you wouldn't use an apostrophe. If you want to say two's company and three's a crowd, you are using the 's as a contraction for "two is company, and three is a crowd".
The word "to" is a preposition, and "too" is an adverb. They do not have plurals. The adverb "too" was originally a stressed version of "to", but about 400 years ago, and extra letter was added to make it clearer which one you were using.
The prefix auto- means self. So an autopilot sometimes is automatic, and sometimes is automated. It depends on what you are doing. If you are cruising, you can let it go on automatic, but landing is automated. To the best of my knowledge, no plane lands completely by itself.
But are not drones considered to be planes ?
At least not successfully unless they're Doodlebugs!Quote: pacomartin...no plane lands completely by itself.
it was classified as an experimental aircraft. Had to be towed by a car to get airborne. He flew it and later quit At&T
and became a helicopter pilot in the Gulf, flying people out to oil rigs.
Gyro-copter kit required you to do 70% of the drilling , tapping, engine work, etc. This same guy rebuilt his Ford engine.
But when six car batteries in parallel could not get it to turn over, he tried an 8 foot pry bar with me and him hanging onto
it. Did not budge. Gyro-copters are one-seat only. Would I have flown with him if it had two seats ?
NO WAY I may be crazy but I am not DUMB !
Quote: pacomartin
The word "to" is a preposition, and "too" is an adverb. They do not have plurals. The adverb "too" was originally a stressed version of "to", but about 400 years ago, and extra letter was added to make it clearer which one you were using.
"to" appears 3 times in this paragraph, and "too" appears twice. Some might claim that the following sentence is valid: "this paragraph contains three tos and two toos."
Quote: rdw4potus"this paragraph contains three tos and two toos."
I think that last is a frilly ballet dress, but I'm not sure about the former.
Quote: pacomartinYes, of course. There are many sources that translate theacronym both ways. But my question was originally brought up to highlight two words with related but slightly different meanings. If your gun is an "automatic", you can start and stop the process by pulling a trigger, bought it's actual performance is "automatic" and does not require you to repeatedly pull the trigger.
But your bank teller machine is "automated" in that it requires your input repeatedly, until it activated some "automatic" machinery that dispenses your banknotes.
...
"Automatic" means you don't have to do anything at all, they just spit out money when you walk by.
More than 80% of the people don't care about the difference, even when it's significant. In ATM, the difference is not only very minor and academic, but even its existence is questionable.
An automatic gun doesn't start firing as soon as you point it towards an enemy. You have to insert a magazine, pull the charging handle, select the firing mode (safety, single, burst, full), turn it towards the enemy, look through the sight, estimate the range, adjust for elevation, then adjust for windage, estimate your target's movement and correct your point of aim, then pull the trigger to have it release a 2-3 round burst, or, if you want a longer burst, use full auto hold the trigger down for as many hundreds of milliseconds as you need rounds fired.
You call that "don't have to do anything at all"?
This process is much less automated than that of using an ATM. It's conceivable, at least, for the charging handle to be unnecessary, for aiming adjustments to be performed automatically, and for the weapon to fire as soon as you point it correctly while holding the trigger. Even that would not be completely "automatic", however.
An "automatic" rifle, by the definition you propose, would have to detect enemies, point itself towards them, and fire until killed.
There actually are such weapons. Samsung Sentinella is one. You set it up, designate a protected perimeter, and it warns and then fires at anything authorized until it stops moving. I hope they make them legal here so I can have one watch over my lawn.
While I agree that "automatic" and "automated" have different shades of meaning, the difference is not, or primarily not, in the degree of automation. "Automated", as a past participle of a verb, implies that a process of automation has been applied to a pre-existing instance of the subject, while "automatic" carries no such implication. So calling something "automated" that has always been automatic or can only be automatic would be incorrect, while calling it "automatic" merely redundant.
For instance, a thermostat is by definition automatic (combining a thermometer and a regulator), can be called an "automatic thermostat", and in rare cases is. But it is not an "automated thermostat", unless a greater degree of automation has been applied (such as adjusting for the kind of food being cooked). Note how in this example "automatic" means a lesser degree of automation than "automated".
Quote: DocAnd if you used the preposition "as" many times in the same sentence, would that be an overuse of ass?
I think an overuse of ass is what happens to me every day at my desk job. Maybe the plural of as is ases the same way that the plural of ass is asses?
Quote: buzzpaffTo the best of my knowledge, no plane lands completely by itself.
But are not drones considered to be planes ?
The public is completely unaware of how huge the staff is to operate a drone. Over 300 people in the case of the large ones. Now obviously that many people are not involved in the mechanics of flying. Most are doing the data analysis.
Screens don't look like they do in the movies. A lot of time you are looking at something like this screen, trying to puzzle out the meaning
Quote: pacomartinI've talked about this several times before, but I haven't put it up to a poll.
Over the four decades from 1928 to 1969 a total of 231.7 million $100 banknotes were printed. Some of them went to replace old banknotes although most notes were held close and not circulated routinely. In 1969, the government decided to destroy any banknote higher than $100 that was returned to the federal reserve. Only collectors items remain in circulation.
Since the big headed notes were introduced in 1996, more than 13 billion banknotes have been printed, of which 7.8 billion are still in circulation at the end of 2011 (most of them overseas). The European Central Bank and Swiss National Bank both print much larger banknotes, with the 1000 Swiss Franc not being worth over $1000 and the 500 Euro note worth about $660.
One argument is that large banknotes lubricate criminal activity and allow too much personal freedom for anonymous transactions. They also aid in moving large amounts of money. Counterfeiting has less impact on individuals.
The counter-argument is that $100 in 1969 may be worth nearly $1000 today. Criminal activity occurs regardless of the size of banknotes. The expense of replacing billions of $100 notes is astronomical. People should be given the freedom to do what they want. The IRS requirements about travelling with $10K or more will still remain in effect. Gamblers will enjoy the big notes, just as their is some fascination with high value chips or plaques today. Because the notes are so valuable, the BEP can afford to put in elaborate anti-counterfeiting methods, so that accepting cash will be even safer.
The most extreme counter-argument is that all large notes should be phased out altogether in favor of electronic exchanges of money. The United Kingdom and New Zealand function just fine with limited numbers of high value notes. Many people never deal in large value notes as they consider them inconvenient or they are afraid of losing significant money in a mugging. Some people believe that banknotes invite fiscal irresponsibility on a national level, as goods and services are paid for in paper.
I am interested in the results of this poll.
2011 Total Denomination $1 $2 $5 $10 $20 $50 $100 Value (millions) $10,000 $1,800 $12,000 $17,000 $142,000 $70,000 $780,000 $1,032,800 Number (millions) 10,000 900 2,400 1,700 7,100 1,400 7,800 31,300 Denomination € 1 coin € 2 coin € 5 € 10 € 20 € 50 € 100 € 200 € 500 Value (millions) € 6,458 € 9,484 € 7,730 € 20,730 € 57,060 € 302,250 € 165,000 € 36,200 € 299,500 € 904,412 Number (millions) 6,458 4,742 1,546 2,073 2,853 6,045 1,650 181 599 26,147
What IRS requirments about travelling with more than 10K?
Quote: AcesAndEights... So if there 2 instances of the word "as" in a sentence, one could say the sentence has two as's.
I agree. I was mocking that situation when I was suggesting that it would be "an excessive use of ass." Similarly, I use the apostrophe when there is probable confusion otherwise. Such as there are two a's, two e's, and two s's in your user name. Some people disagree with me on this usage.
As a UK citizen I have to fill in a variety of forms when arriving in the US. Apart from the weirdo of being allowed to take in turkey sandwiches but not meat ones, I have (for me academically) noticed there's a box you tick if you're carrying more than $10K of financial instruments. As a coincidence the threshold here is also £10k when a bank has to ask you various details for money laundering purposes - you essentially have to show where the money suddenly came from and, if they don't know you, give various ID.Quote: RaspberryCheeseBlintzWhat IRS requirments about travelling with more than 10K?
Quote: P90
An automatic gun doesn't start firing as soon as you point it towards an enemy.
That's not what the "automatic" means in "automatic rifle." All it means is that the action is automatic. i.e. the process by which a new shell is chambered is automatic. That's differentiated from semi automatic, pump-action, bolt action, etc.
Quote: RaspberryCheeseBlintzWhat IRS requirments about travelling with more than 10K?
I'm sorry. It is an IRS requirement regarding Reporting Cash Payments of Over $10,000 (Form 8300)
It is a TSA and a CBP requirement about travelling with more than 10K
Quote: TSA regulationQ. Will I be delayed during screening if I am carrying large amounts of cash?
A. TSA does not restrict passengers from carrying cash through our security checkpoints. However, when TSA discovers a passenger carrying a sum of cash that appears to be in excess of $10,000 and the passenger is traveling to a location outside of the United States, TSA may notify U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) to ensure compliance with international currency-reporting requirements. Also, TSA may notify law enforcement officers if cash is discovered during the security screening process that appears to be related to criminal activity based on factors such as the quantity, packaging, circumstances of discovery, or the method by which it is carried.
Quote: Customs and Border Protection (CBP)It is legal to transport any amount of currency or other monetary instruments into or out of the United States. However, if you transport, attempt to transport, or cause to be transported (including by mail or other means) currency or other monetary instruments in an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 or its foreign equivalent) at one time from the United States to any foreign country, or into the United States from any foreign country, you must file a report with U.S. Customs and Border Protection. This report is called the Report of International Transportation of Currency or Monetary Instruments, FinCEN Form 105. Furthermore, if you receive in the United States, currency or other monetary instruments in an aggregate amount exceeding $10,000 (or its foreign equivalent) at one time, which has been transported, mailed, or shipped to you from any foreign place, you must also file a FinCEN Form 105. This form can be obtained at all U.S. ports of entry and departure or on the Web at www.fincen.gov/fin105_cmir.pdf.
Quote: rdw4potusThat's not what the "automatic" means in "automatic rifle." All it means is that the action is automatic. i.e. the process by which a new shell is chambered is automatic. That's differentiated from semi automatic, pump-action, bolt action, etc.
It's not like I'm not aware. And the same way "automatic" in "automatic teller machine" means the process of checking your account and retrieving your money is automatic, not the process of guessing if you need money and how much.
The word's automatic and automation are relatively old. "Automatic" first appeared in print in 1740's. The word "automated" first appeared in the 1950's. It referred to adding different automatic processes to aid the overall flow of an operation or a factory. Once initiated, each "automatic" process continues without human interference.
The word "automated teller machine" was introduced into the language in 1974. A customer selects several options, each of which are carried out "automatically". The principal use is the counting and distribution of banknotes.
This comparison was done several years ago (currency supply as % of GDP). But many societies are very cash intensive, and are very dependent on ATM's. The Asian economies in particular are very banknote dependent, while at the same they are afraid of large banknotes because of counterfeiting concerns.
Japan - 18.16%
China - 12.35%
India - 12.21%
Russia - 11.94%
Singapore - 8.34%
USA - 6.66%
UK - 3.80%
Sweden - 3.53%
Quote: charliepatrickThere's a live (yes it goes it live as I've been to the studio) question show where you place or spread your million. The first one was the question, the second how they split the money across the answers their answer, the third the result.
How did it come out?
