Poll

81 votes (77.88%)
7 votes (6.73%)
12 votes (11.53%)
4 votes (3.84%)

104 members have voted

charliepatrick
charliepatrick
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February 25th, 2012 at 7:20:32 PM permalink
England
Interestingly it's the £20 that is usually forged the most as the £50 ones aren't really used in normal circulation so any are more closely inspected. Obviously you see them, and receive them, in casinos. Also recently some game shows on TV (Bank Job, Million Pound Drop) use actual wads of notes, rather like game pieces, to show the value of potential prizes on offer or being won.

We now have £1 and £2 coins, the latter being bi-metal similar to Eur1 and Eur2. As has been stated there are lots of fake £1 coins, but as any vending machine takes them, they're easy to get rid of.

It doesn't happen often but whenever I've taken large amounts out, the bank usually doesn't have any £50s, so you get £20s instead. Some London casinos use date stamped plastic bags of full of £50s with "£1000".

Scotland
There are three banks that issue notes. One bank still issues £1 and all three issue £100 notes; they have had them for quite a while. I have seen them used in casinos, but not very often. Also, in case you go there, Scottish notes aren't technically legal tender in England - indeed in Prague once I saw different rates for Scottish and English pounds - so sometimes ask for English notes if heading home.

Isle of Man
I haven't been there for a while but they do have a £50 and £1, however when I brought £50 back my local bank didn't know what they looked like, so treated it as an uncleared cheque!

Europe
I have only really seen the Eur100 and Eur200 notes in casinos and that's probably why the Eur500 cannot be used in Britain. It's, I'm told, much easier to fill a briefcase with 500s.

US
I still had a couple of the old $100 bills the last time I went to Vegas a few years back, and casinos seemed quite happy. Also I have had a few $2 - I think the racetrack liked them as that was once their nominal tote bet - but no-one else did.

Personally I think a US500 is unnecessary in the same way as the Eur500 shouldn't have been made.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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February 25th, 2012 at 8:08:25 PM permalink
Sometimes in the movies made in the 80's
and 90's, you'll see a suitcase filled with
$1000 bills. They don't seem to know they
aren't in circulation anymore.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
pacomartin
pacomartin
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February 25th, 2012 at 8:08:39 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick

England Interestingly it's the £20 that is usually forged the most as the £50 ones aren't really used in normal circulation so any are more closely inspected. It doesn't happen often but whenever I've taken large amounts out, the bank usually doesn't have any £50s, so you get £20s instead. Some London casinos use date stamped plastic bags of full of £50s with "£1000".

Europe I have only really seen the Eur100 and Eur200 notes in casinos and that's probably why the Eur500 cannot be used in Britain. It's, I'm told, much easier to fill a briefcase with 500s.

US Personally I think a US500 is unnecessary in the same way as the Eur500 shouldn't have been made.



The Bank of England reports some 185 million £50 banknotes in circulation at the end of 2010, up for 122 million in 2005. That's a very small amount for a nation of 62 million people. I should think passing on forgeries would be nearly impossible. Of course UK has always been leery of counterfeiters since Operation Bernhard in WWII.

In contrast Canada circulated 289.6 million $100 notes for a nation of 34 million people. Both nations have released new versions of those banknotes in November 2011. Canada had a severe counterfeiting problem a few years ago. Australia was circulating 207 million $100 notes for a nation of 22 million (more than the UK with about 1/3 population). Australia is unique among Canada, US, NZ, and Aus in that the bill of choice is the $50 instead of the $20.

Most of Europe always had large banknotes. Pre-conversion the largest banknote in each country was worth:
Germany 511
Netherlands 454
Austria 363
Italy 258
Belgium 248
Finland 168
Ireland 127
Luxembourg 124
France 76
Spain 60
Portugal 50
Greece 29

The decision to print large numbers of 500 banknotes was a way for the bank to move into a very profitable market in underground currency that was previously only dominated by the USA. The US government briefly considered printing the $500 banknote when the Euro was introduced, they decided against it at the time. US is circulating over 75% of the 8 billion Benjamins overseas.

Repeating the table at the beginning of the thread.
2011 Total
Denomination $1 $2 $5 $10 $20 $50 $100
Value (millions) $10,000 $1,800 $12,000 $17,000 $142,000 $70,000 $780,000 $1,032,800
Number (millions) 10,000 900 2,400 1,700 7,100 1,400 7,800 31,300
Denomination 1 coin 2 coin 5 10 20 50 100 200 500
Value (millions) 6,458 9,484 7,730 20,730 57,060 302,250 165,000 36,200 299,500 904,412
Number (millions) 6,458 4,742 1,546 2,073 2,853 6,045 1,650 181 599 26,147
ddloml
ddloml
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February 25th, 2012 at 9:47:45 PM permalink
Quote: charliepatrick


US
I still had a couple of the old $100 bills the last time I went to Vegas a few years back, and casinos seemed quite happy. Also I have had a few $2 - I think the racetrack liked them as that was once their nominal tote bet - but no-one else did.



Back in the mid-90's as the USA issued the redesigned $50, Mary Ellen Witherow, the US Treasurer at the time, was making a public appearance introducing the new bill at Navy Pier in Chicago. I managed to obtain some new $2 bills and took our grade school aged kids to the event. After the ceremony, many of the schoolkids pulled out old ratty singles from their pockets for Ms Withrow to sign. When my kids presented their $2 bills to her, she studied the bills and smiled at me; she knew those autographs would be saved and not spent. The autographs on those bills look exactly like the signature that was printed as part of the bill.
pacomartin
pacomartin
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February 25th, 2012 at 10:03:52 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

And I keep reading that $500 and $1000 and even $5000 bills are likely coming. Counterfeit proof, of course.



You should give a reference to what you read.

There is no such thing as counterfeit proof. There is only tolerable levels of counterfeiting, and new issues of currency that stay ahead of the counterfeiters.
P90
P90
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February 26th, 2012 at 3:06:34 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

David Wolman thinks we would be better off if North Korea begins producing enough superdollars so that America must demonetize the $50 and $100 banknote.


Yet it's modern design bills that are being counterfeited, not "WILL PAY TO THE BEARER ON DEMAND" notes. And it will remain so, should there be a big currency replacement drive, new bills will be the ones copied.

Counterfeiters don't want to bring in a case of 1929 $500 bill copies and explain they are still valid and totally real; they want to clandestinely inject fake twenties into the money flow. Fake bills get sold (as far as I know of this business) to criminal and semi-criminal enterprises, who pass them on among real bills outside of organized crime, the bills get mixed up further, spent in the shops, and lost in the economy without a trace.
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ewjones080
ewjones080
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February 26th, 2012 at 3:18:54 AM permalink
What about getting rid of the penny? Doesn't it cost like 1.8c to produce one of them?
pacomartin
pacomartin
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February 26th, 2012 at 4:12:53 AM permalink
Quote: ewjones080

What about getting rid of the penny? Doesn't it cost like 1.8c to produce one of them?


There is a whole separate issue of the stupidity of using tokens for accounting purposes when much of the country is carrying more computing power than the first moon landing had at their disposal. Pennies, nickels, and dollar banknotes are particularly dumb. Counting change is inefficient and protecting cash from thievery is very expensive given that accounts can easily be settled by waving a magnetic strip in front of a sensor.

Large banknotes are about moving value anonymously. You don't need to leave a trace of who you are, and you need no authorization. If you are cheating on your spouse, there is no record of your transaction. Large banknotes involve different issues than the mechanics off small notes.

A big part of large banknotes is how extremely profitable they are to the US government.

Quote: WILL JUMBO EURO NOTES THREATEN THE GREENBACK?


THURSDAY, OCTOBER 8, 1998
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Domestic and International Monetary Policy,
Committee on Banking and Financial Services,
Washington, DC.

This morning we will examine a single element of the euro strategy, the intention to issue a high value note equal to more than $500, and the implications this might have for the circulation of dollars outside the United States and more broadly American currency management in the face of this challenge.

Regarding the United States $500 and $1,000 bills already in existence, current estimates of outstanding $500 bills in circulation are about 286,000 notes, or $143,889,500 worth. For $1,000 bills, there are 167,101 notes, or obviously $167,101,000. ... They also had a function in exchanges between banks and in large cash transactions through the 1930's, 1940's, and 1950's. Since the 1960's, Federal Reserve Banks routinely remove these notes from circulation and destroy them so they have acquired a scarcity value as a collectible that adds a premium to their face value.

The bulk of the United States currency that is held outside the United States is composed of $100 notes. There are about $298 billion worth of them outstanding and in circulation as of June 30, 1998; and about two-thirds of these are held abroad. (Over $800 billion as of 2012 of which 75% is now held abroad.) Those are statistics, by the way, which are not largely known by the public, either the $298 billion or the fact that two-thirds are held abroad. The grand total of U.S. currency held abroad appears to be $250 billion. I will look to our witnesses to refine these estimates, but this should equate to a rough interest savings to the Treasury of almost $10 billion per year. At least this figure and in addition some percentage of the $28 billion or so annual earnings booked by the Treasury from currency and coinage may be placed in jeopardy by the European action.

Nareed
Nareed
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February 26th, 2012 at 5:50:26 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

There is no such thing as counterfeit proof. There is only tolerable levels of counterfeiting, and new issues of currency that stay ahead of the counterfeiters.



Modern notes are very hard to counterfeit.

I've run across some fakes. One was great, a very recent 100 peso note. The paper was wrong, naturally, but the more inexperienced might not notice. It had the hologram strip down, too, and the microprinting was convincing if you didn't look at it too closely. Where it failed miserably was with the color-shifting ink. It just didn't shift.

I wanted to keep it as a curio. But the boss insisted we make sure it was a fake. Hmpf!
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EvenBob
EvenBob
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February 26th, 2012 at 7:08:10 PM permalink
Why does EU get a $500 Euro note and we can't have one.

"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal

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