Cooperation game
Poll
 | 17 votes (34%) | ||
| | 12 votes (24%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2%) | ||
| | 5 votes (10%) | ||
| | 5 votes (10%) | ||
| | 6 votes (12%) | ||
| | 3 votes (6%) | ||
| | 7 votes (14%) | ||
| | 3 votes (6%) | ||
| | 1 vote (2%) |
50 members have voted
Quote: DocWell, it seems I am on neither the "team" list nor the "non-team" list. Perhaps because I noted that (1) I did not see signs of cooperation during round #1 and (2) I had a "personal strategy" I could follow in the event of no plan for cooperation.
In any event, I did claim that I didn't think following that strategy would hurt the team. My pick for round #2 was $1, which follows both my strategy and what appears to be the plan for team members -- no conflict, so no problem with the decision. Hope it works out well once again.
I'm going to put you on the team list for the next rounds.
Romes
Mrsuit31($1)
Blount2000
joeman
doughtaker
miplet
Axelwolf
bigfoot66
gamerfreak
SOOPOO ($1)
Oncedear
paradigm
hunterhill
Rudeboyio
Doc
non team members:
RonC($3)
tomG
Gwae
BBB
Canyonero
Onenickelmiracle($3?)
Quote: rudeboyoiWhat's the plan this round? 6 $3 bets 9 $1 bets?
Give it a little time to get as many people designated as possible. We have about 21 on the total list so far...
Come tomorrow night I'm sure we will have a majority of those willing to pledge their alligence or not by then. And will simply post the designated bids then...
If we don't get many more. The only safe bet will be $1 for all of us now. We have 15 team members, 6 potential $3 non team members, meaning we need 6 of the teaming 19 to go $1. We don't have enough info yet to not risk losing if we designate some $3 biders on our team.
We need a guaranteed 21 low bids to win. When we start getting above 21 team members then we will start inputting high bids from it members to increase our winning pool.
At the end all of the team members will get their equal portion of the groups total bids, which will hopefully increase each round beyond simply the lower bid multiplied by the total team members, as more people hop on board. Even though we won't be getting the highest bid amount, we will hopefully begin to guarantee that we will all receive some amount each round beyond that of the lowest bid amount.. Thereafter most of us will be participating in the optional team pool parlay bed that Romes proposed. However, that second pool is optional and will be decided when we all cash out!
Look at it this way. If we can get 30 people on our list this round... That means we can safely have 21 low bids and 9 high bids for a total of $48 (21*$1 + 9*$3). That's $1.60 each for the team members, just over half of the high bid, but guaranteed! The more on the list, the higher guaranteed payout, period.
Quote: onenickelmiracle14 people on neither list
I am assuming that mike will replace the non voters like he did first round...
I think you need to double check that. Your reply does not apply to what was said.Quote: mrsuit31I am assuming that mike will replace the non voters like he did first round...Quote: onenickelmiracle14 people on neither list
Quote: beachbumbabsAll right, then, put me on the team list. I have bid $1 in all three rounds, figuring that was in the best interests of both me and the team effort while it was getting organized. I do expect an equitable distribution of team winnings regardless of Mike's determination of how he will pay people, as the price of openly bidding low. Preferably via a pool bet once the game is over. If that's not the team goal, then say so and I'll go back to independent play.
If you look back I just edited my previous post to put the explaination of he team strategy as I see it in place now. I believe that is what everyone is on board with. The team pools and then we all devide the group winnings into equal portions. If that is not what someone had thought please say so. Otherwise I got you on the list now...
Romes
Mrsuit31($1)
Blount2000
joeman
doughtaker
miplet
bigfoot66($1)
gamerfreak($3)
SOOPOO ($1)
Oncedear
paradigm($1)
hunterhill
Rudeboyio
BBB($1)
Rs($1)
Axel($1)
non team members:
Doc
RonC($3)
tomG
Gwae
Canyonero
Onenickelmiracle($3?)
Quote: DJTeddyBearI think you need to double check that. Your reply does not apply to what was said.
I honestly don't know what that 14 figure is referring too... We have 21 people accounted for on both lists at the money. That would mean 19 missing from both lists...
Again I'm totally down to collude next round if we can agree on a plan.
Quote: mrsuit31If you look back I just edited my previous post to put the explaination of he team strategy as I see it in place now. I believe that is what everyone is on board with. The team pools and then we all devide the group winnings into equal portions. If that is not what someone had thought please say so. Otherwise I got you on the list now...
Romes
Mrsuit31($1)
Blount2000
joeman
doughtaker
miplet
Axelwolf
bigfoot66
gamerfreak
SOOPOO ($1)
Oncedear
paradigm
hunterhill
Rudeboyio
Doc
BBB($1)
non team members:
RonC($3)
tomG
Gwae
Canyonero
Onenickelmiracle($3?)
Perfect. Thanks. Go team.
Quote: mrsuit31The team pools and then we all devide the group winnings into equal portions. If that is not what someone had thought please say so.
I'm happy to collude with the team, but I didn't read it as a requirement to pool my winnings. Only to bid as directed.
Quote: OnceDearI'm happy to collude with the team, but I didn't read it as a requirement to pool my winnings. Only to bid as directed.
Thats how you guarantee the high EV. Your directed to vote, and you receive the guarantee EV amount for each round after the winnings are chopped.
Quote: gamerfreakI voted $1 first two rounds, but $3 this round because I want things to get a little interesting. Ya'll should still vote $1 though.
Again I'm totally down to collude next round if we can agree on a plan.
You told us you were in before?
Quote: mrsuit31You told us you were in before?
I didn't see any plan for collusion, sorry if I missed it
This was my understanding as well. I figured we would rotate who votes high and low. Won't pooling get messy? What happens if people join or drop out between rounds?Quote: OnceDearI'm happy to collude with the team, but I didn't read it as a requirement to pool my winnings. Only to bid as directed.
There are more people who have voted, but neither on the team nor non-team list.Quote: mrsuit31I honestly don't know what that 14 figure is referring too... We have 21 people accounted for on both lists at the money. That would mean 19 missing from both lists...
Quote: JoemanThis was my understanding as well. I figured we would rotate who votes high and low. Won't pooling get messy? What happens if people join or drop out between rounds?
The join drop aspect wouldn't be impossible but yes, may take time. That's why we make the team now, being guaranteed to win every round until mike has had enough. Mike alrwady expressed that he has an itemized record of who wins what. If you are on the team you will surrender you money to the pool now (it's like 4 bucks, giving away 2-3 for much more) Then there is no calculation issue unless people get booted and other get out in by mike. It is not hard math to figure out when that happens. I don't see this going past 20 rounds or so. We could handle it with no problem...
the values increase seemingly every few rounds. Doing your idea would mean that someone is going to get screwed no matter what. You would have to literally keep totals for every individual person to see who is behind and have no real way to know if they even did what they were supposed to. The pooling guarantees everyone gets paid the same amount. The only reason why someone would want to keep their own winnings and not pool is because they are not bidding as directed knowing they have a few big bids leeway. With the pooling agreement (not the parley bet with Romes), even if someone bets against the directions it doesn't benefit that person, eliminating the trust issue.
However, if everyone doesn't agree then this can't work and I will simply stop blowing up this thread.
If we team up everyone is literally guaranteed money for doing nothing as long as mike decides to keep giving it to us. This isn't even really an AP situation as some have alluded to in their strategies... This isn't gambling... It's a guarantee.
I'll see what everyone on the team has to say about my posts before I continue to annoy people with so many posts, although I think the team members appreciate it. Or hope they do :/
Quote: bigfoot66I'm happy to be part of the team but I will be traveling and away from interenet for the exit few days so I will be putting in my pick for $1 now. I am tempted to switch to $3 but I am afraid that since we survived 2 rounds a lot of people will be tempted to move from $1 to $3 which could be an issue so we need to stick at $1.
Great I'll put you on the list. All we realistically need is a few more people and tyen our won per person will start going up.
RS are you on board?
Quote: mrsuit31If you look back I just edited my previous post to put the explaination of he team strategy as I see it in place now. I believe that is what everyone is on board with. The team pools and then we all devide the group winnings into equal portions. If that is not what someone had thought please say so.
Well, that certainly strikes me as a different form of cooperation than anything I had read before. Even the optional end-plan of throwing in all the winnings to some sort of pot for a high-payout wager stated that those that participated would own shares in proportion to their individual winnings during the various rounds. Sounds as if the "team" commitment rules are being edited after folks sign up. Perhaps it's better if I just withdraw from the team now and go back to my own strategy, rather than there being hard feelings later. Even another strategy has recently been suggested to me.
Quote: DocWell, that certainly strikes me as a different form of cooperation than anything I had read before. Even the optional end-plan of throwing in all the winnings to some sort of pot for a high-payout wager stated that those that participated would own shares in proportion to their individual winnings during the various rounds. Sounds as if the "team" commitment rules are being edited after folks sign up. Perhaps it's better if I just withdraw from the team now and go back to my own strategy, rather than there being hard feelings later. Even another strategy has recently been suggested to me.
I've been consistant with what I thought the team idea is. We would all vote together to maximize EV per person and pool the winning of the team until the end. Thereafter once the game ends everyone gets their share of the winnings pool. After that is calculated and everyone is then entitled to that amount, people then can opt to hop on board with Romes for the parlay at the end. It's really not that complicated. But you are of course free to do what you like. In the end this is just a game, so I wouldnt get mad at anyone's decision to do what they want. I'm just trying to win with a bunch of people. So far we got a few bucks. :)
Quote: RSYeah, I'll jump on board the "team" train or whatever it is, mrsuit.
Cool. Got it.
If my updated list is accurate then we have 16 people on "the team" right now, I removed doc because of his previous post. He would have been number 17. We have 6 non team members. You can see the list I've been keeping update on the bottom of page 31. I've been having fun with this and admittedly paying to much attention. Although I'm sure that's apparent. Thats 23 of the 40 players accounted for. If we get another five we official can't lose if everyone is willing to bid low. That being said if we get to 30 on the team you can see where it begins to simply just increase in value for everyone involved. At that point all that is needed is a simple group PM to tell the bids on day one and wait until bidding ends a few days later each round.
Also to address Axel's concern earlier. If we get to 25-30 people on the team. It would be very hard for those people milking the team with high bids to continue if we use our bid pooling power.
I NEVER SAID I WAS A NON TEAM PLAYER NOR WOULD I DEFECT FROM THE TEAM!!Quote: mrsuit31If you look back I just edited my previous post to put the explaination of he team strategy as I see it in place now. I believe that is what everyone is on board with. The team pools and then we all devide the group winnings into equal portions. If that is not what someone had thought please say so. Otherwise I got you on the list now...
Romes
Mrsuit31($1)
Blount2000
joeman
doughtaker
miplet
bigfoot66($1)
gamerfreak($3)
SOOPOO ($1)
Oncedear
paradigm($1)
hunterhill
Rudeboyio
BBB($1)
Rs($1)
non team members:
Doc
RonC($3)
tomG
Gwae
Canyonero
Onenickelmiracle($3?)
Axel
I said I will not continue to let people suck off the people willing to give up value for the people who refuse to play team ball forcing us to just to be overly cautious. Whomever wants to organize a maximum EV strategy feel free to PM me and I'll tell you who I believe we can count on to play ball and who might get tricky(I'll even account for a few trying to prove me wrong and bid opposite just for kicks). At some point I'm willing to get zero to punish the greedy people. EVERYONE should be on board to remain open to change and asked/instructed what to bet from one organizer.
Obviously we should make it appear close and create doubt in Mike's mind so he will continue. However I don't like when someone automatically says I'm always going to bet high.
I'll vote whatever is best for the group no matter what I win im willing to share with all team players, even if they randomly got voted out as long as they are willing to do the same (I already voted)
Quote: AxelWolfI NEVER SAID I WAS A NON TEAM PLAYER NOR WOULD I DEFECT FROM THE TEAM!!
I said I will not continue to let people suck off the people willing to give up value for the people who refuse to play team ball forcing us to just to be overly cautious. Whomever wants to organize a maximum EV strategy feel free to PM me and I'll tell you who I believe we can count on to play ball and who might get tricky(I'll even account for a few trying to prove me wrong and bid opposite just for kicks). At some point I'm willing to get zero to punish the greedy people. EVERYONE should be on board to remain open to change and asked/instructed what to bet from one organizer.
Obviously we should make it appear close and create doubt in Mike's mind so he will continue. However I don't like when someone automatically says I'm always going to bet high.
I'll vote whatever is best for the group no matter what I win im willing to share with all team players, even if they randomly got voted out as long as they are willing to do the same (I already voted)
I put you back up...
Just to be clear. When we have the amount of people we need going into future rounds, I won't be posting and publicly tracking bids like this. Everything will/should be done by PM for the most part. And no I don't need to be the ring leader either, I'm just trying to get what we need together in order to allow us to prepare the proper strategy. We need the headcount in order to calculate the maximum EV strategy and tell everyone what to bid with the explanation (X high bids + X low bids =this much for the team guaranteed this round). I hope this all
makes sense. If so PM me that your on board and we will work from there. And that goes for anyone on the Wizards oarticipation list.
Also, to account for the trust issue, we can all send the organizer a pm which will be forwarded to mike at the proper time to express who has agreed to be on board with the team and he can act as the disinterested referee so that someone cannot later backout at the payout stage...
Quote: mrsuit31We need the headcount in order to calculate the maximum EV strategy and tell everyone what to bid with the explanation (X high bids + X low bids =this much for the team guaranteed this round). I hope this all makes sense. ..
I see an issue: By being so cautious and pretty much declaring that the team will bid $1 until the team is big enough to force the outcome, we might actually be incentivising peeps to NOT join the team AND driving down the overall EV because we didn't get enough on board.
This is fun still.
You're taking this thing too seriously.Quote: AxelWolfI NEVER SAID I WAS A NON TEAM PLAYER NOR WOULD I DEFECT FROM THE TEAM!!
I said I will not continue to let people suck off the people willing to give up value for the people who refuse to play team ball forcing us to just to be overly cautious. Whomever wants to organize a maximum EV strategy feel free to PM me and I'll tell you who I believe we can count on to play ball and who might get tricky(I'll even account for a few trying to prove me wrong and bid opposite just for kicks). At some point I'm willing to get zero to punish the greedy people. EVERYONE should be on board to remain open to change and asked/instructed what to bet from one organizer.
Obviously we should make it appear close and create doubt in Mike's mind so he will continue. However I don't like when someone automatically says I'm always going to bet high.
I'll vote whatever is best for the group no matter what I win im willing to share with all team players, even if they randomly got voted out as long as they are willing to do the same (I already voted)
"And no I dont need to be the ringleader" I didn't take it as such. AAMOF I like the fact that you are trying to take initiative to PM people organize and whatnot. That's definitely someone I would want to work with. Don't care what the situation is, just get the sh*t done and get the money.Quote: mrsuit31I put you back up...
Just to be clear. When we have the amount of people we need going into future rounds, I won't be posting and publicly tracking bids like this. Everything will/should be done by PM for the most part. And no I don't need to be the ring leader either, I'm just trying to get what we need together in order to allow us to prepare the proper strategy. We need the headcount in order to calculate the maximum EV strategy and tell everyone what to bid with the explanation (X high bids + X low bids =this much for the team guaranteed this round). I hope this all
makes sense. If so PM me that your on board and we will work from there. And that goes for anyone on the Wizards oarticipation list.
Also, to account for the trust issue, we can all send the organizer a pm which will be forwarded to mike at the proper time to express who has agreed to be on board with the team and he can act as the disinterested referee so that someone cannot later backout at the payout stage...
Quote: AxelWolfI'm willing to get zero to punish the greedy people.
Quote: AxelWolfjust get the sh*t done and get the money.
So Axel, It's bad to be a greedy person, but it's good to be a greedy team? If a greedy person joins a team does that make him good? If an altruist joins a team does that make him greedy and bad?
Only joking mate. I see you are big on the team playing ethic and nothing wrong with that. We are a bit of an anarchic rabble at the moment. MrSuit is giving it a shot, so Kudos to him. Team needs a dedicated leader or leadership council and that seems tough to get in place.
Quote: OnceDearSo Axel, It's bad to be a greedy person, but it's good to be a greedy team? If a greedy person joins a team does that make him good? If an altruist joins a team does that make him greedy and bad?
Only joking mate. I see you are big on the team playing ethic and nothing wrong with that. We are a bit of an anarchic rabble at the moment. MrSuit is giving it a shot, so Kudos to him. Team needs a dedicated leader or leadership council and that seems tough to get in place.
DhuQuote: OnceDearSo Axel, It's bad to be a greedy person, but it's good to be a greedy team?
Don't let greedy people join your team.Quote: OnceDearIf a greedy person joins a team does that make him good?
Only if he's on your team.Quote: OnceDearIf an altruist joins a team does that make him greedy and bad?
Quote: OnceDearSo Axel, It's bad to be a greedy person, but it's good to be a greedy team? If a greedy person joins a team does that make him good? If an altruist joins a team does that make him greedy and bad?
Only joking mate. I see you are big on the team playing ethic and nothing wrong with that. We are a bit of an anarchic rabble at the moment. MrSuit is giving it a shot, so Kudos to him. Team needs a dedicated leader or leadership council and that seems tough to get in place.
DhuQuote: OnceDearSo Axel, It's bad to be a greedy person, but it's good to be a greedy team?
Don't let greedy people join your team.Quote: OnceDearIf a greedy person joins a team does that make him good?
Only if he's on your team.Quote: OnceDearIf an altruist joins a team does that make him greedy and bad?
porridge is expensive.Quote: onenickelmiracleYou're taking this thing too seriously.
Is a drunk monkey using your phone tonight? Even I never knew how to spell porridge.Quote: AxelWolfporridge is expensive.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIs a drunk monkey using your phone tonight? Even I never knew how to spell porridge.
Axel will surprise you from time to time. He'll just throw out some fancy word that no one has ever heard of before, used perfectly for the situation.
The otter X hell be talking be talking. Like th. Is. (The other times he'll be talking like this.)
Quote: OnceDearI see an issue: By being so cautious and pretty much declaring that the team will bid $1 until the team is big enough to force the outcome, we might actually be incentivising peeps to NOT join the team AND driving down the overall EV because we didn't get enough on board.
This is fun still.
That would be true if we always plan to bet $1. That isn't the case, at least in my mind.... We now have enough to take some control. If we declare our bids early, by planning the bids out for a future round prior to round opening we could theoretically take some control. This so so because let's say that we have 16 people on the team... If we decide to dictate early what our bids are and then place them a few minutes into the round, the remaining non team members will be forced to acknowledge they team bid breakdown due to the fact that they must also bid accordingly in order to win themselves.
While that strategy can easily lead to use losing a round, I think ou can see what ability we technically have to play with things by simply being together as a voting team.
But we aren't there just yet, or are we ;)
I picked $1 in the first two rounds.
Quote: Dalex64You can put me on "the team"
I picked $1 in the first two rounds.
Got it...
When this version is over I think it would be fun to try it without communication. It would have to be on the honor system. Thoughts?
Round 1: $1
Round 2: $1
Round 3: $3
What is the "team" strategy now? I just read through three pages of posts and I still don't know. Has everyone on the team committed to pooling their winnings and distributing them evenly?
I am still open to following a strategy that gets a good EV, if such a strategy is presented before the start of round 4 and at least 20 players commit to following it. I am also open to joining the team if the agreement is made crystal clear to me.
My round 3 pick is $3.
I don't abuse my animals, he only had two drinks while helping me play baccarat, he had to drive.Quote: onenickelmiracleIs a drunk monkey using your phone tonight? Even I never knew how to spell porridge.
While on my smart phone I only need to know the first few letters of a word, p o r r in this case. I wouldn't think porridge was all that uncommon of a word. It was just the first "poor man's food" that came to mind. Perhaps I should've said ramen instead so RS could understand?
I may have bad sentence structure, punctuation and spelling but I assure you my vocabulary is quite adequate given my actual education level.
Quote: Canyonero. Has everyone on the team committed to pooling their winnings and distributing them evenly?
I believe all who I have spoken with have agreed to this, either on here or via PM. I will post my updated team list in a moment. If anyone on the team list is not on board with the pooling of all winnings, they need to make that known now. I have a good chunk of people who have confirmed this already to me.
If you are on board with this I will add you as well....
Quote: mrsuit31I believe all who I have spoken with have agreed to this, either on here or via PM. I will post my updated team list in a moment. If anyone on the team list is not on board with the pooling of all winnings, they need to make that known now. I have a good chunk of people who have confirmed this already to me.
If you are on board with this I will add you as well....
This is the updated list so far.
I have confirm of the bids for a majority of our team list and have confirm of their willingness to pool the winnings. Again, if anyone on the team list is not open to the pooling, they need to speak up now and they will be removed. If they remain silent after these many posts and PM exchanged, they will be considered on board. We have 16 team members as of now. We are merely 5 away from a guaranty each round or simply have a large amount of leverage to post our team bids to influence/force non team members to choose the lower bid amount or everyone loses, including them. Id find it hard for an AP to purposely through that guarantee away all away.
Team:
Romes
Mrsuit31
Blount2000
joeman
doughtaker
miplet
bigfoot66
gamerfreak
SOOPOO
paradigm
hunterhill
Rudeboyio
BBB
Rs
Axel
non team members:
Doc
RonC
tomG
Gwae
Canyonero
Onenickelmiracle
Wizardofnothing
Oncedear
Edited to remove Oncedear from the team list.
Quote: mrsuit31This is the updated list so far.
I have confirm of the bids for a majority of our team list and have confirm of their willingness to pool the winnings. Again, if anyone on the team list is not open to the pooling, they need to speak up now and they will be removed.
Just to be awkward, I don't propose to pool my winnings.
I have bid $1 each of three times and will cooperate with the team, but for no sensible reason whatsoever, I'd like my wagers to just be between me and Wizard,
If that takes me out of the team, then so be it.
Quote: OnceDearJust to be awkward, I don't propose to pool my winnings.
I have bid $1 each of three times and will cooperate with the team, but for no sensible reason whatsoever, I'd like my wagers to just be between me and Wizard,
If that takes me out of the team, then so be it.
I have taken you off the list. I edited the list above to reflect this.
