Redemption-type games at charity carnival?

Chuck E. Cheese, Dave & Buster's, bowling alleys, pizza parlors, shopping malls...

All of these are places that have games that are played in the hopes of winning tickets. One prevalent type of game is "stop the light on the jackpot," as demonstrated in this clip of Cyclone, one of the top-grossing games of its kind. Cyclone YouTube Video

I have tried to find out if staging a similar game at a charity carnival (aka. church picnic) would be feasible, and legal. I've spoken to the charitable gaming commission in my state, which has said that such a game would NOT be under their jurisdiction (i.e. it's not 'gambling')

I have attempted to contact other state agencies for answers, but none have responded. I've combed through statutes about the subject, and all I've come up with are "examples" of skill games: Dart throw, milk jug knockdown, balloon pop, duck pond... There are other skills games we put on, such as frog catapult, 4-in-a-row, ping pong ball toss, and others. Why not a computer-based game of skill and timing?

So the question is, can anyone think of a reason a redemption-type game would not be allowable?

A few notes:
* We would NOT be giving out tickets. Players would either stop the light on "Winner"... or not.
* The game would be created in-house, using a computer, and made as fair as possible.

I believe that, as long as you stay away from cash prizes, they do not construe it as gambling.

Look at that Chuck E Cheese as an example, you have tickets and each ticket is good for $0.01 of merchandise, which is priced in the form of tickets. However, you have the ability to simply purchase tickets at a rate of $0.01/each, though they don't bother to hand you the tickets, you simply pay the difference between the tickets you already have and the 'ticket price,' of the piece of merchandise you want.

If that's not gambling, then I don't know the definition of gambling!!! You are making a finite bet, a token as it were, which usually costs a quarter, in order to win tickets that have a finite financial value of $0.01/per. If you win more than 25 tickets on a game, then you have profited, if you fail to win that much, then you have lost. That's a pay on a x-for-1 basis as the token is presumed lost.

What separates it from gambling? You can't cash your tickets, you can only use your tickets (which are effectively pennies) to buy merchandise.

In short, if you have a Chuck E Cheese in your State, then whatever you are doing is probably fine.

Quote: Mission146

I believe that, as long as you stay away from cash prizes, they do not construe it as gambling.

Look at that Chuck E Cheese as an example, you have tickets and each ticket is good for $0.01 of merchandise, which is priced in the form of tickets. However, you have the ability to simply purchase tickets at a rate of $0.01/each, though they don't bother to hand you the tickets, you simply pay the difference between the tickets you already have and the 'ticket price,' of the piece of merchandise you want.

If that's not gambling, then I don't know the definition of gambling!!! You are making a finite bet, a token as it were, which usually costs a quarter, in order to win tickets that have a finite financial value of $0.01/per. If you win more than 25 tickets on a game, then you have profited, if you fail to win that much, then you have lost. That's a pay on a x-for-1 basis as the token is presumed lost.

What separates it from gambling? You can't cash your tickets, you can only use your tickets (which are effectively pennies) to buy merchandise.

In short, if you have a Chuck E Cheese in your State, then whatever you are doing is probably fine.

That small amount of money is less than nominal. Moreover, as a kid, my goal was not to win tickets...they would just accrue and I'd get a bonus at the end, which is more like a rebate in adult terms. Everyone knew it was all junk, unless you had 10,000,000 tickets.

This is going to be a play-for-prizes game. Instead of giving a number of tickets, the object will be to stop the light on "WINNER", which would be equivalent to hitting the Jackpot. Granted, I'll be making the odds of hitting the winning light a lot easier than hitting a ticket jackpot at Chuck E. Cheese.

I may also have two possible wins, with "Small Prize" and "Big Prize" areas. Same difference, but gives people something to aim for.

Side note: I found a game I could pretty consistently hit jackpots on at a local mall arcade. I honestly don't think any worker there had ever seen anyone with over 11,000 tickets, and redeem them for the dirt bike. Good times.

Nice score on the dirt bike!

Yeah, you see the light stop game in the Wal-Mart mini-arcades, grocery stores, theater arcades and places like that all the time...I don't see how such a game could possibly be a problem, but it doesn't hurt to call and ask someone in a position to answer your query more authoritatively than I can...what State is it?

I am in Kentucky. I sent an email to the Attorney General, but have no idea who really got it, or if it was forwarded to the appropriate sub-office. I am trying to be very careful about things, as the parish I work with has had discrepancies in the past, and the charitable gaming commission is keeping a close eye. New staff has been working to turn things around and follow the letter of the law.

One issue I'm having is finding a specific definition of "skill-game." As I mentioned previously, all that are given are a few examples. So long as there is no element of luck via random decision, I think I'm good. Even a game like "Plinko" is skill, as the player can drop the chip how and where they like.

Quote: Dween

... the charitable gaming commission is keeping a close eye..

Sounds like that's who you should be asking.

I did ask them, and got this reply:

"This game would not be considered a charitable gaming activity that this office would regulate or license. As this office regulates only charitable gaming, we therefore cannot advise if the game is legal under the general Kentucky gambling statutes."

They also suggested asking the Attorney General, but still haven't gotten a response from them. Would the AG office take a phone call on such a question?