Gambling and TSA

Hello Community,

My question is simple and deals with Civil Asset Forfeiture. As I currently understand, law enforcement is allowed to confiscate funds if they believe it is linked to criminal activity, the issue is that this is hearsay and up to interpretation. My question to the AP's is how does one travel (via airplane) with large sums of cash, without the risk of confiscation? In the past, one could place their cash on their person and walk through the metal detectors, now with the advent of Full-Body Scanners at virtually all airports and the requirements to remove everything from your person, how is it feasible to carry and travel with large amounts of cash?

Personally, I am someone who would like to travel to Vegas in the near future with amounts between $2,000 - $5,000 in cash. I currently have never filed a CTR as my winnings have never warranted one. So how does one with no record of cash transactions prove to the authorities that the money was not obtained illegally? What are your protocols with respect to traveling with cash?

I would like to hear anecdotal evidence of people who have been in this situation rather than speculation on what should/could happen.

Any insight at all would be wildly appreciated. Thank you.

If it's for a relatively small amount like 2-5k, you should be fine. I've gone through just holding the money in my hand (10 or 15 k) with no issues. They just wanted to thumb through the money to make sure there weren't any bombs or knives or whatever else people hide in money now a days. I've also traveled with a bit more, just put it in my bag and didn't put in stuff that'd trigger a search (i.e. Food liquids razors bombs etc.).

Leaving Vegas, I've had the TSA guy say "Wow, you must'a gotten lucky here!" Even though I live in LV. And heading towards LV the TSA guy said something like "Damn you're gonna go hard aren't you?" And that was that.

You can transfer money via the bank. Or wire money to a casino or set up a credit line. Or get a security box at a bank in Vegas and leave the cash there, assuming it's money you can leave in LV until you return.

Quote: Rel8te

I would like to hear anecdotal evidence of people who have been in this situation rather than speculation on what should/could happen.

Any insight at all would be wildly appreciated. Thank you.

I haven't traveled with a large amount, but I would say don't take more than you can afford for the TSA to steal from you. More than one person has had cash confiscated because it "might be used for an illicit purpose."

TSA is not a law enforcement agency. They can only seize items that are prohibited on planes. Cash is not in their baliwick..

I have flown to Vegas many times with more than 5 grand in cash. These days I'm using a LoC, but I get the cash thing.

As long as you don't give them a reason to hand check your bag, your chances of being randomly selected for additionally screening are next to none. I have flown 30-40 round trips over the past 3 years and have never been randomly selected domestically; my one selection was because I forgot a water bottle.

You are not breaking the law and don't have to explain a thing (plane ticket to Vegas is enough of an excuse to convince most TSA agents). TSA agents are not police, most don't give a crap, they just want to clock out. Don't have any drugs on you, don't be a dick, and everything should be fine.

I've carried more than $10K in person through the X-ray machine at the airport. I took the money out of my bag and held it on top of my head while the x-ray scanner went thorough. No questions asked. I was also prepared to say that "I was going to Vegas" if they wanted a reason, but it never got to it.

I was recently traveling with a friend and we had large sums of cash in our carry on bags. My bag goes through without a problem and my friend's bag which was right behind mine alerted the TSA, Both he and I just looked at each other in disbelief as they called for someone to hand check the bag. Unbeknownst to me he had a big ziplock bag full of coins in his carry on and the TSA grabbed it, looked at and and said to take it out next time. They never looked between the layer of clothes and didn't see all of the cash in the bag. We were very fortunate.

Not really. There is nothing they can do. Worse possibility is they call a real cop who asks whats going on.

I've flown from Columbus OH to Vegas on a number of occasions with roughly $2K on my person or in my bag. Never even a raised eyebrow from TSA...

About 10 months ago while travelling I was the subject of what was obviously a fishing expedition for potential asset seizures (without real consequence for me as I wasn't also moving my money that way - and I forgot to pack my grenade launcher for going through Oklahoma). Since then over the last year I've become aware (more directly than through public news reports) of a number of other local seizures of assets that were apparently without evidence of anything illegal other than making some assumptions about someone having cash. But all the cases I've become acquainted with, including my own little incident with a County Sheriff's deputy on a rural stretch of an interstate highway, involved local law enforcement when travelling by car. And I get the fact that TSA "agents" are basically glorified mall cops, if that. But with that said, I'm personally not feeling quite as confident as others about the airport question.

I've wondered if something similar could happen when taking a flight & whatnot, and since I've actually been standing by the side of the road staring at cows with my thumb up my assets fairly recently while Barney Fife was meticulously going through my bags looking for moolah, this question is more than a little bit interesting to me. Here's some of what I just turned up in a quick Google of news accounts (with colored & bolded emphasis & comment added by me):

Washington Post (6/30/15): Drug cops took a college kid’s savings and now 13 police departments want a cut

Quote:

In February 2014, Drug Enforcement Administration task force officers at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport seized $11,000 in cash from 24-year-old college student Charles Clarke. They didn't find any guns, drugs or contraband on him. But, according to an affidavit filled out by one of the agents, the task force officers reasoned that the cash was...

...<SNIP>...

...Two local agencies were involved in the seizure of Clarke's cash: the Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky Airport Police, and the Covington Police Department, which is the home office of the DEA task force officer who detained and spoke with Clarke....

Washington Post (6/30/15): Why the TSA posted a photo of a passenger’s cash-filled luggage on Twitter

Quote:

...Asked about the incident via e-mail, Farbstein said that "the carry-on bag of the passenger alarmed because of the large unknown bulk in his carry-on bag. When TSA officers opened the bag to determine what had caused the alarm, the money was sitting inside. Quite unusual. TSA alerted the airport police, who were investigating."...

...<SNIP>...

..."The TSA officer may consider all circumstances in making the assessment, including the [subjective opinion of] behavior and credibility of the passenger. Thus, a failure to be forthcoming may inform a TSA officer’s decision to call law-enforcement authorities."

In this case, the cash was seized by a federal agency, most likely the Drug Enforcement Administration, according to Richmond airport spokesman Troy Bell. "I don't believe the person was issued a summons or a citation," he said. "The traveler was allowed to continue on his way."... [without his money]

WTKR @Virginia local TV (7.1.15): TSA seizes $75,000 in cash from Richmond passenger – and he may not get it back

Quote:

The man who was carrying $75,000 in cash was stopped at a checkpoint because of his bulky bag, according to WTVR...

And I'm not so sure if it always takes lotsa bricks of 'big-baller-bux' to trigger a problem:

By the Institute for Justice (advocacy group - 1/21/16): DEA Offered Reward to a TSA Screener to Help Them Seize Cash from Luggage

Quote:

During that period, half of all DEA cash seizures were under $10,000, according to a later analysis by the Institute for Justice.

These are just from what I get off skimming the first page of a quick web search of some relevant press articles, and I have no other information on these quoted incidents beyond what I see in the published reporting. Unfortunately, even with the 'benefit' of my own experience last year and some personal accounts (described to me privately) from some others since then, I also have nothing to offer that I could feel really confident about telling someone else they should to do to avoid this.

There was a story on 2+2 about 3 brothers who came to play the WSOP. They ended up getting 10k together and one of them played the main and won 90k ish. They copped it 3 ways and were flying back to Canada I think. The youngest one looks nervous, gets his bag searched, finds the 30k asks what it is, he says it's his third of a poker win. They pull the other two in, find the rest and it's taken because they didn't declare the money on the forms. I believe they never got it back.

My details might not be perfect from memory, but the story is close to how it went it down.

Not that I would ever travel with large amounts of cash (that's hard to do snapping up abandoned credits).

Recently after exiting the LV airport a TSA lady (looked more like a guy) was outside smoking, she seemed friendly at first, so I asked her about people I know traveling with large amounts of cash(her eyes immediately locked on my bag) she half ass'ed answered my questions, she didn't seem like the probing question. But Basically she said, yes they sometimes do confiscate cash.

She started heading back to her post. We quickly jumped into a cab and left so she didn't get any bright ideas and send someone to harass and wast my time just to find my hidden $3.50, stack of .1 cent slot tickets and my free drink coupons.

If you're staying within the US there isn't a limit on carrying amount.

If you're traveling outside of the US it's $10k I believe.

Last few times I've flown with $10-$12k I simply bundled it, held it in my hands over my head. 2/3 times the security officer didn't even ask to see the money (maybe he didn't see it in my hands). The other time he just asked to leaf it to make sure nothing was between the bills then returned it to me no questions asked.

You're not doing anything illegal going somewhere with your own money, so don't be nervous or act like it. On the flip side I'm always prepared for any run ins like this with copies of Bob Nersessian's books, old/recent W2's, other gambling books, etc. I think it helps a lot to hold it in your hands. If you bury it in your bag or something then it looks like you're trying to hide it. If it looks like you're trying to hide it then they get all suspicious. NEVER put it in a plastic bag or something in your bag (looks like you're trying to hide it / the sent from dogs).

I usually take 8 to 10k - have about 2k in my wallet - the rest in my carryon bag - never had problem or have it questioned.

It sux for the people that get hassled - my opinion is this is extremely rare

I regularly fly to Vegas with $3K-$5K.

Frankly, I'm more concerned with unsavory type bystanders seeing that cash than the TSA agents.

The key word here is "unusual." As in, unusual activity raises a red flag for law enforcement, of all types and in all situations. Someone traveling to or from Vegas with 2-5K in cash wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Paducah, Kentucky would be a different story. But when you get to amounts like $12K or $30K, as in some of those stories (and stories is all they are), then you're unusual even for a Vegas visitor, because the TSA agent would ask a legitimate question: Why are you carrying all this CASH? A normal prudent individual wouldn't do that. If you play to gamble heavily, you should carry some cash but the rest of your roll should be in front money at the cage (sent ahead of time), cashier's checks on your person, traveler's checks, etc. If you score a big win, you should take it in the form of a check, or convert the cash into a check.

That it is just plain stupid to travel with large amounts of cash raises the red flag for TSA. The only way a sensible person would want to deal in such large amounts in cash would be if he wants his transactions to be untraceable. This usually means drug trafficking and/or money laundering--two things that get the Feds riled up. So yes, the TSA might grab the money first and ask questions later.

Where this discussion goes off the rails is people "never getting the money back." They will get it back (assuming they can show that it isn't from illegal activity) eventually. Canadians and other foreign nationals simply have to declare large amounts of cash. If they don't, their cash can be confiscated, but they'll get it back, too. What happens in their home countries is something different altogether. But we have mutual treaties with most countries re how this exact situation should be handled.

But really, why would anyone risk coming to on the floor of a men's room stall, with a bleeding head and a splitting headache, and that carryon bag nowhere to be found? When one could be carrying a cashier's check in one's wallet instead?

I also imagine APs, being the paranoid bunch that they are, would not want to use the casino's money services.

There is a Bank of America in my home town and at least 2 branches of BoA in Vegas that I know about. I keep an account with BoA just for bankroll.

AFAIK, it can be difficult using a bank account for large cash transactions. Listen to gambling with an edge with the guest smallcapgrowth.

Quote: Romes

If you're staying within the US there isn't a limit on carrying amount.

If you're traveling outside of the US it's $10k I believe.

Last few times I've flown with $10-$12k I simply bundled it, held it in my hands over my head. 2/3 times the security officer didn't even ask to see the money (maybe he didn't see it in my hands). The other time he just asked to leaf it to make sure nothing was between the bills then returned it to me no questions asked.

You're not doing anything illegal going somewhere with your own money, so don't be nervous or act like it. On the flip side I'm always prepared for any run ins like this with copies of Bob Nersessian's books, old/recent W2's, other gambling books, etc. I think it helps a lot to hold it in your hands. If you bury it in your bag or something then it looks like you're trying to hide it. If it looks like you're trying to hide it then they get all suspicious. NEVER put it in a plastic bag or something in your bag (looks like you're trying to hide it / the sent from dogs).

12k is one thing however what about 30k++ what about 100k? You willing to risk holding that in your hand? Keeping it in your bag shouldn't be suspicious because you wouldn't want the guy behind you following you once you got off the plane.

For those who think its perfectly safe for AP to take money though TSA offer up insurance you'll make a bundle of cash.

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The key word here is "unusual." As in, unusual activity raises a red flag for law enforcement, of all types and in all situations. Someone traveling to or from Vegas with 2-5K in cash wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Paducah, Kentucky would be a different story. But when you get to amounts like $12K or $30K, as in some of those stories (and stories is all they are), then you're unusual even for a Vegas visitor, because the TSA agent would ask a legitimate question: Why are you carrying all this CASH? A normal prudent individual wouldn't do that. If you play to gamble heavily, you should carry some cash but the rest of your roll should be in front money at the cage (sent ahead of time), cashier's checks on your person, traveler's checks, etc. If you score a big win, you should take it in the form of a check, or convert the cash into a check.

That it is just plain stupid to travel with large amounts of cash raises the red flag for TSA. The only way a sensible person would want to deal in such large amounts in cash would be if he wants his transactions to be untraceable. This usually means drug trafficking and/or money laundering--two things that get the Feds riled up. So yes, the TSA might grab the money first and ask questions later.

Where this discussion goes off the rails is people "never getting the money back." They will get it back (assuming they can show that it isn't from illegal activity) eventually. Canadians and other foreign nationals simply have to declare large amounts of cash. If they don't, their cash can be confiscated, but they'll get it back, too. What happens in their home countries is something different altogether. But we have mutual treaties with most countries re how this exact situation should be handled.

But really, why would anyone risk coming to on the floor of a men's room stall, with a bleeding head and a splitting headache, and that carryon bag nowhere to be found? When one could be carrying a cashier's check in one's wallet instead?

You say stories is all they are.Are you.implying that it doesn't happen?

Front money at the cage .Most Aps don't want the casino to know their real name.
Using a bank can help,but it's not that easy to go withdraw 20k.Also what if you need your money and the bank is closed.

Yes you can get the money back if it's seized but now you have to pay legal fees.

Carrying cash is not a crime but in this country your cash is guilty until you prove its innocence.

Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The key word here is "unusual." As in, unusual activity raises a red flag for law enforcement, of all types and in all situations. Someone traveling to or from Vegas with 2-5K in cash wouldn't raise any eyebrows. Paducah, Kentucky would be a different story. But when you get to amounts like $12K or $30K, as in some of those stories (and stories is all they are), then you're unusual even for a Vegas visitor, because the TSA agent would ask a legitimate question: Why are you carrying all this CASH? A normal prudent individual wouldn't do that. If you play to gamble heavily, you should carry some cash but the rest of your roll should be in front money at the cage (sent ahead of time), cashier's checks on your person, traveler's checks, etc. If you score a big win, you should take it in the form of a check, or convert the cash into a check.

That it is just plain stupid to travel with large amounts of cash raises the red flag for TSA. The only way a sensible person would want to deal in such large amounts in cash would be if he wants his transactions to be untraceable. This usually means drug trafficking and/or money laundering--two things that get the Feds riled up. So yes, the TSA might grab the money first and ask questions later.

Where this discussion goes off the rails is people "never getting the money back." They will get it back (assuming they can show that it isn't from illegal activity) eventually. Canadians and other foreign nationals simply have to declare large amounts of cash. If they don't, their cash can be confiscated, but they'll get it back, too. What happens in their home countries is something different altogether. But we have mutual treaties with most countries re how this exact situation should be handled.

But really, why would anyone risk coming to on the floor of a men's room stall, with a bleeding head and a splitting headache, and that carryon bag nowhere to be found? When one could be carrying a cashier's check in one's wallet instead?

I think you're making the "guilty until proven innocent " argument here. There are problems with every alternative you've listed. Specifically, a lot of places are no longer accepting cashier's checks due to a sharp rise in forgeries and fakes. There is a lot of paperwork involved with either depositing or withdrawing large amounts of cash, usually but not limited to 10k and above, as far as using branches of a bank. Wiring is expensive, and requires a lot of id, and lead time.

Cash movement, when legit, can still be erroneously reported to the IRS as unreported winnings or income. But having a lot of cash money is NOT illegal. I think there's a lot of official overreach in this area, and they do it simply because under current drug and laundering laws, they can. It can easily cost the amount in attorney fees to recover it, not to mention the time the money is not available to you. It needs to stop being ok to confiscate now and ask questions later.

Quote: beachbumbabs

I think you're making the "guilty until proven innocent " argument here. There are problems with every alternative you've listed. Specifically, a lot of places are no longer accepting cashier's checks due to a sharp rise in forgeries and fakes. There is a lot of paperwork involved with either depositing or withdrawing large amounts of cash, usually but not limited to 10k and above, as far as using branches of a bank. Wiring is expensive, and requires a lot of id, and lead time.

Cash movement, when legit, can still be erroneously reported to the IRS as unreported winnings or income. But having a lot of cash money is NOT illegal. I think there's a lot of official overreach in this area, and they do it simply because under current drug and laundering laws, they can. It can easily cost the amount in attorney fees to recover it, not to mention the time the money is not available to you. It needs to stop being ok to confiscate now and ask questions later.

Far from it. I'm simply acquiescing to reality, if you like. The laws in place and the instructions given to law enforcement (of which TSA is definitely a part) compound the already substantial risk attendant in hauling around large amounts of cash. OF COURSE there are practical difficulties with every alternative to cash transactions. But that's true of just about any attempt to mitigate risk, in all contexts. I would, for example, consider the $35 my bank charges to wire funds more than worth it as insurance against something happening to a wad of cash I was carrying. I did that exact thing about 25 years ago when I hit a bingo coverall for $5000. I couldn't stand the idea of some mugger hitting the jackpot or any one of many other disasters that could have happened if I'd just stuffed it all in my pockets. Specifically: I took my payment in a check, and presented it at the issuing bank the next morning with wiring instructions for my bank. At no point was the money at risk.

Everyone's perception of risk is different, I suppose, but it seems obvious that whatever you think about those evil fascists blah blah confiscating people's hard earned cash yada yada, the risk attendant to traveling with large amounts of cash has gone up due to (yes, often wrongly enforced) asset forfeiture laws. I mean, why risk any one of a number of awful outcomes just to avoid a little paperwork and/or spend a little money?

And as far as "confiscate first" is concerned, well, what should be done is that the funds are taken into custody and the owner is given a receipt. Those funds are kept in safekeeping in their original form. If related charges are not filed against the owner within, say, 30 days, the funds are returned. I would imagine that something close to that happens in most cases.

SA's new policelike badges a sore point with real cops
Updated 6/16/2008 10:56 AM

By Thomas Frank, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — Screeners at the nation's airport checkpoints are going to start wearing police-style badges — but real officers aren't too happy about it.

Some sworn officers fear airline passengers will mistake screeners for law-enforcement officials with arrest powers.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is starting to equip its 48,000 screeners with 3-inch-by-2-inch, silver-colored, copper and zinc badges that will be worn on new royal-blue police-style shirts.

The attire aims to convey an image of authority to passengers, who have harassed, pushed and in a few instances punched screeners. "Some of our officers aren't respected," TSA spokeswoman Ellen Howe said.

Actual airport police, who carry guns and have arrest powers, worry that their own authority will be undercut by screeners who look like police. Every major airport has its own police department or is patrolled by local police.

"A lot of cops at airports are not real thrilled about it," said Duane McGray of the Airport Law Enforcement Agencies Network, an airport police association. "It's another way of saying (to airport police), 'You're not important.' "

Network president Paul Mason, chief of the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport police, worries that passengers will mistake badge-wearing screeners for police and expect them to handle crimes. "There are going to be some growing pains on the part of the (screeners) and police," he said.

Agencies often give badges to workers who aren't law-enforcement officers. At the TSA, badges are carried by 1,200 inspectors who check that airlines, airports and others comply with security rules. The Environmental Protection Agency gives badges to its 250 workers charged with overseeing cleanups of oil spills and other hazardous releases, EPA spokeswoman Roxanne Smith said.

Airport screeners will get badges after finishing a two-day training program covering issues related to badges as well as how to talk to passengers in a calming manner. Unlike police, who often are required to carry their badges while off-duty, screeners will be barred from wearing them when they are not working, TSA Deputy Administrator Gale Rossides said.

"We coupled the badges with the communications training to make it clear to our officers that they're there to facilitate our passengers," Rossides said. She said the TSA has no interest in giving screeners law-enforcement power.

In April, Baltimore-Washington International Airport screeners became the first to get badges and blue shirts, which replace white shirts adorned with a yellow TSA patch. Screeners at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport will get them today.

A.J. Castilla, a screener at Boston's Logan Airport and a spokesman for a screeners union, is eager to get a badge. "It'll go a long way to enhance the respect of this workforce," he said

Traveling with large sums of cash, the worry about law enforcement agents or TSA agents is pretty low on my list of prioritized concerns. On the list? Yes, down near the bottom. Next to, what if you get distracted by that crew from whatever airline and follow them down thru the terminal a bit just to watch them walk, from behind. This while my carry-on bag is back where I was sitting a couple minutes ago ;-)

Earlier in the thread someone mentioned 10K in cash leaving the country. You can take cash out of the country. I believe 10K is still the limit where you have to declare to the USA that you are departing their jurisdiction with considerably more cash than the gov't is worth..

<edit> if you travel with large sums of cash on your person you should not post that fact here, or anywhere else for that matter. Just for the record, I rarely have more than a couple hundy on me. That's official...

<2nd edit>. Actually, 10k in hundys folded in half doesn't even make a large bulge in your front pocket compared to the extra sock stuffed down in your crotch. Never caused me any problems with TSA yet.
Back when I carried cash of course ;-)

<3rd edit> I really think I've only had to do the full body scan machine once. They prolly still passing pics around and laughing at the extra sock ;-)