2016 Election -- Part II
Poll
 | 57 votes (47.89%) | ||
| | 33 votes (27.73%) | ||
| | 12 votes (10.08%) | ||
| | 10 votes (8.4%) | ||
| | 4 votes (3.36%) | ||
| | 3 votes (2.52%) |
119 members have voted
And I just drank this in honor of our new President. A beer made from the town of my alma mater, Mizzou. It's also my 500th different beer on the Untappd app. Man, I try a lot of beer...lol My screenname is Vman96 if anyone here on the forum uses it.
Quote: EvenBobWho cares if Trump is 10 times worse than
people think he is as a person. The point
is and always has been, Hillary had to lose.
Period. She was owned lock stock and barrel
by special interests all over the world and
they would would have run things, not
her.
She had to lose, enough with family dynasty
crap. We just dodged a major bullet and as
time goes on you will see that, because the
Clinton story is far from over.
I think Bill and Hill are done.
Chelsea, after some fake jobs on Wall Street, is said to be being groomed for congress. Fresh off reports that that the foundation paid for her wedding.
If she runs, they'll stick her someplace where she can't lose, as they did with hillary. It will deprive someone who might do some good of the seat, and promote the.image of the Dems as crooked.
Damn why do I get screwed out of free money ? )-;Quote: MaxPenI am no longer interested in this as I now belief after further review that is less probable. Various reasons such as below. With a difference of 400k votes out of 120million counted it certainly is still a possibility.
I really was trying to get action from BBB or DRich from those posts. A gentlemans double down, if you will.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/11/10/plot-twist-cnn-now-saying-that-donald-trump-won-the-popular-vote-n2244077
Quote: RigondeauxI think Bill and Hill are done.
.
Done in politics, not done explaining the
Clinton Crime Family to grand juries.
Quote: tringlomaneThanks for the laugh Mission, those were pretty good.
And I just drank this in honor of our new President. A beer made from the town of my alma mater, Mizzou. It's also my 500th different beer on the Untappd app. Man, I try a lot of beer...lol My screenname is Vman96 if anyone here on the forum uses it.
Thanks for the compliment! I'll have a look at that app on Sunday. Always think I'm going to knock back a few beers and end up sipping some type of whiskey, or rum & coke (but usually some kind of whiskey on the rocks) though instead.
Quote: MaxPenHere's a perfect example of a bigot. Great opportunity though. Sell GrubHub because it's going down the drain.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/11/10/boss-tells-pro-trump-employees-to-resign.html
Down almost 5% today. Get your grub on. Like a broken clock MaxPen right again.
Quote: EvenBobWho cares if Trump is 10 times worse than
people think he is as a person. The point
is and always has been, Hillary had to lose.
Period. She was owned lock stock and barrel
by special interests all over the world and
they would would have run things, not
her.
And on top of that, there's a very good
chance she is majorly sick. We already know
she's physically weak as a kitten, I won't
even go into what we've all been seeing
for months. Don't be surprised if we learn
next year that she's taken a turn for the
worse.
If you're going use a standard of innuendo and rumor as true facts, please stop ignoring all the rumor and innuendo on Trump.
At least use the same standard. He's got plenty to work with.
Quote: rxwineIf you're going use a standard of innuendo and rumor
I wasn't aware that the Clinton's being investigated
by the FBI was a rumor. Comey said the email phase
is over, he can't talk about the foundation investigation.
It began with her concession speech.
The Purple Revolution
http://nypost.com/2016/08/01/melania-trumps-girl-on-girl-photos-from-racy-shoot-revealed/
So LGBT is wrong with Camp Hillary now?
Has the first Wookie packed its bags yet?
Quote: Mission146That has about as much to do with the President-Elect (who I didn't vote for) as Bill Clinton's sexcapades had to do with Hillary. Less, in fact, as Trump and Melania weren't even married yet.
Everything about this couple, their past, their present and their future is relevant now. He will shortly become the most powerful man in the entire world. She is his wife. They represent America to the entire world. Places where her escapades are much less tolerated than here.
Quote: lilredroosterEverything about this couple, their past, their present and their future is relevant now. He will shortly become the most powerful man in the entire world. She is his wife. They represent America to the entire world. Places where her escapades are much less tolerated than here.
That's good, then. I would suggest that much of the rest of the world could use a lesson in allowing consenting adults to do as they like provided it doesn't hurt anyone else.
Quote: RSPerhaps that's your opinion that it's a stupid comparison. But what AZD said is true.
In the last week or so, 10 police officers have been shot. 6 are dead.
Why haven't we heard the outrage from the Blue Lives Matter people?
Because they were all shot by white men.
Blue lives only matter when you can scapegoat black men against them.
I'll take Black Lives Matter over Blue Lives Matter any day of the week. At least they are consistent.
The rest of the world? We need to start here in the US first. VP-elect Mike Pence wants to use your tax dollars to fund electroshock torture in a scientifically-debunked procedure he calls "gay conversion therapy." That's as far as you can get from "allowing consenting adults to do as they like provided it doesn't hurt anyone else."Quote: Mission146That's good, then. I would suggest that much of the rest of the world could use a lesson in allowing consenting adults to do as they like provided it doesn't hurt anyone else.
Quote: MathExtremistThe rest of the world? We need to start here in the US first. VP-elect Mike Pence wants to use your tax dollars to fund electroshock torture in a scientifically-debunked procedure he calls "gay conversion therapy." That's as far as you can get from "allowing consenting adults to do as they like provided it doesn't hurt anyone else."
Whether or not that is true, and I'm in no position to dispute that, the specific matter at hand is whether or not a consenting woman having attained the age of majority, serves as a bad example to the rest of the world by posing mostly naked with another woman. That sort of behavior is certainly not allowed in many places around the world, and I maintain that it should be.
I do agree, though, that from a social standpoint, there are many things that consenting adults (who are not harming anyone else) should be allowed to do but are not in this country. We are certainly not as socially liberal as we could be, or as I would like us to be, but I doubt that President-Elect Trump has either the inclination or the actual ability to rewind the clock back to 1930, or what have you.
Finally, I would suggest that any argument coming from a Liberal, or any other person who would otherwise believe that consenting adults should be allowed to do as they like, that would suggest that Melania Trump is a bad example for this reason is both disingenuous and sanctimonious. Simply put, we (as in, social liberals, such as myself) cannot have it both ways. We can't say that such behavior, fully legal, is fine as long as it is not someone we are against doing it.
Quote: articleBut at the end of the day, once you decide that everyone, regardless of age or medical condition, should be able to buy health insurance at an affordable price, you have essentially bought into the idea that young and healthy people have an obligation to subsidize the older and sicker people in some fashion. And once you do that, it’s sort of inevitable you end up where every health reform plan has ended up since the days of Richard Nixon. You end up with some variation on Obamacare.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/donald-trump-is-beginning-to-face-a-rude-awakening-over-obamacare/
I agree with him on one point: Obamacare is a mess. That's because it's a cobbled-together mishmash of policy aimed at placating opposed social views. Single-payer (e.g., Medicare-for-all) would be far less messy and far more efficient. It would ruin the private health insurance business, though. What's more important? Taking care of people or taking care of for-profit health-insurance companies?
To me it's a no-brainer. The health and well-being of the population is a public good. GDP is highest when everyone is as healthy and productive as they can be. And since the free markets have been shown to be ineffective at providing for that public good (e.g., denying coverage to already-sick people) then the only recourse is for government to step in.
Perhaps Trump himself doesn't, but his running mate does, and Trump has given voice to thousands of alt-right bigots who would not only see gay rights trampled but also prohibit interracial marriage and repeal the 19th Amendment.Quote: Mission146I do agree, though, that from a social standpoint, there are many things that consenting adults (who are not harming anyone else) should be allowed to do but are not in this country. We are certainly not as socially liberal as we could be, or as I would like us to be, but I doubt that President-Elect Trump has either the inclination or the actual ability to rewind the clock back to 1930, or what have you.
I don't think anyone is particularly against Melania Trump. She's a non-event as far as policy goes (except for the high irony in her choosing "cyberbullying" as her pet project). However, what's been lost during this election cycle is any semblance of respect for proper decorum. It's all well and good to be into BDSM in the privacy of your own home but wearing a ball-gag into a courtroom is a violation of the dignity of the court (and would be punishable as contempt). And by decorum I don't mean "political correctness" -- I mean the basic respect for our institutions that allow them to function properly.Quote:Finally, I would suggest that any argument coming from a Liberal, or any other person who would otherwise believe that consenting adults should be allowed to do as they like, that would suggest that Melania Trump is a bad example for this reason is both disingenuous and sanctimonious. Simply put, we (as in, social liberals, such as myself) cannot have it both ways. We can't say that such behavior, fully legal, is fine as long as it is not someone we are against doing it.
That said, I don't have a problem with Melania Trump being a former nude model. I do have a problem with Donald Trump being a former sexual predator.
Quote: EvenBobI wasn't aware that the Clinton's being investigated
by the FBI was a rumor. Comey said the email phase
is over, he can't talk about the foundation investigation.
No, I'm talking about the post you actually wrote.
I'm not going to complain about a factual post as rumor and innuendo. As long as you stick to what is known, or are not clearly fooling around, or clearly just alleging something that may be true.
Quote: MathExtremistPerhaps Trump himself doesn't, but his running mate does, and Trump has given voice to thousands of alt-right bigots who would not only see gay rights trampled but also prohibit interracial marriage and repeal the 19th Amendment.
I wouldn't say that he gave them a voice, they already had and will always have a voice; provided such people continue to exist. Furthermore, even if Pence were to become President, I seriously question his ability to actually effectuate any or all of the things that he might like to do.
Quote:However, what's been lost during this election cycle is any semblance of respect for proper decorum. It's all well and good to be into BDSM in the privacy of your own home but wearing a ball-gag into a courtroom is a violation of the dignity of the court (and would be punishable as contempt). And by decorum I don't mean "political correctness" -- I mean the basic respect for our institutions that allow them to function properly.
That's perfectly fine, and I would agree with you (as would many actual Trump voters) that the level of decorum during this election cycle was not as lofty as it could have (or should have) been for either side. Again, my initial comment just concerned the apparent assertion that Donald Trump is unfit for office and serves as a bad example because his wife posed for nude photos with another naked woman prior to the time she was married to him. I'm really not trying to argue any bigger or more broad point than that. I try to stay away from arguing broad points, it's a really difficult thing to do effectively.
Quote:That said, I don't have a problem with Melania Trump being a former nude model. I do have a problem with Donald Trump being a former sexual predator.
I'm glad you have no problem with Mrs. Trump being a former nude model. I do understand what Trump's statements were, and the implication of those statements taken at face value (I can't imagine being held to everything I've ever said and people assuming that I meant all of it, though, that aspect of celebrity life has to suck for all celebrities) but absent an actual criminal conviction, I am unwilling to characterize our President-Elect as a, 'Sexual Predator.' Mind you, I'm not saying that he is NOT a sexual predator, I'm saying that I don't have sufficient evidence or information to make that conclusion.
Quote: MathExtremist
I agree with him on one point: Obamacare is a mess.
Of course, if we didn't have what we have, I'd have to speculate no one would have made any more progress than we ever made in decades.
It's like starting on the room you've been putting off adding to house. If you can ever get anything started maybe you can get it finished even with more mistakes and delays in the meantime. But it will eventually get completed, if you keep at it.
Quote: ams288In the last week or so, 10 police officers have been shot. 6 are dead.
Why haven't we heard the outrage from the Blue Lives Matter people?
Because they were all shot by white men.
Blue lives only matter when you can scapegoat black men against them.
I'll take Black Lives Matter over Blue Lives Matter any day of the week. At least they are consistent.
That might be the dumbest thing I have read on the internet this year.
The only thing I can think of that would be more ignorant is if someone claims supporters of Donald Trump want to take away a woman's right to vote.
Quote: Maverick17That might be the dumbest thing I have read on the internet this year.
The only thing I can think of that would be more ignorant is if someone claims supporters of Donald Trump want to take away a woman's right to vote.
Thank you, Maverick, for calling out the nonsense.
I think I know where the "deplorable " thing came from. I'm not good at posting this stuff. If someone can view it please let me know. Thank you.
It is a disease soon to be acknowledged by the WHO.
There is no cure to unTARD the TARDed.
Well that's an interesting attitude about Trump's credibility vis-a-vis sufficient evidence. You don't have any evidence for anything other than Trump's own words.Quote: Mission146I do understand what Trump's statements were, and the implication of those statements taken at face value (I can't imagine being held to everything I've ever said and people assuming that I meant all of it, though, that aspect of celebrity life has to suck for all celebrities) but absent an actual criminal conviction, I am unwilling to characterize our President-Elect as a, 'Sexual Predator.' Mind you, I'm not saying that he is NOT a sexual predator, I'm saying that I don't have sufficient evidence or information to make that conclusion.
When he says "Before a show, I’ll go backstage and everyone’s getting dressed, and everything else, and you know, no men are anywhere, and I’m allowed to go in because I’m the owner of the pageant and therefore I’m inspecting it. You know, they’re standing there with no clothes. ‘Is everybody okay?’ And you see these incredible looking women, and so, I sort of get away with things like that," people think, no, that's not credible.
And when he says "I moved on her and I failed, I admit it. I did try and fuck her. She was married. I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there, and she was married," people think, no, that's not credible.
But when he says "I'm going to build a wall and Mexico is going to pay for it," the same people believes him.
But when he says "Obamacare is a total disaster, I'm going to repeal it," the same people believe him. And now that he's said "just kidding, I'm not going to repeal Obamacare," the same people think, no, that's not credible.
See the problem?
Quote: rxwineI'm not going to complain about a factual post as rumor
The foundation investigation is not
a rumor. It's been verified by half
a dozen vetted and reliable sources
inside the FBI. It's going on, it's
happening, and Hillary is not gone
from the public spotlight. Luckily
for Hillary, Obama can pardon her
for crimes she hasn't been accused
of yet. But he can't pardon everybody,
she can still be the laughing stock and
humiliated when her cohorts get perp
walked up the jail steps. It happened to
Nixon, he was tarnished for the rest of
his life.
At least a few of them tweeted about it. Only you can determine whether they meant it or not, but it's consistent with flagrant dishonesty being the new trend in political speech.Quote: Maverick17The only thing I can think of that would be more ignorant is if someone claims supporters of Donald Trump want to take away a woman's right to vote.
If you elect me, I'm going to repeal Obamacare!
Just kidding.
Quote: EvenBobThe foundation investigation is not
a rumor..
Look, the FBI could have investigated you at one time and you'd never know it.
Quote: Maverick17
The only thing I can think of that would be more ignorant is if someone claims supporters of Donald Trump want to take away a woman's right to vote.
Only Rosie O'Donnell
Quote: Mission146
for this reason is both disingenuous and sanctimonious.
Sanctimonious? Sanctimonious? I don't care if I appear sanctimonious. I'm not going to let this buffoon get away with this shit he's trying to pull. I'm going to verbally attack him any way I can. There's going to be a divisive conflict in this country that will be like nothing anyone has seen since Vietnam. I know which side I'm on. Do you?the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: Mission146
for this reason is both disingenuous and sanctimonious.
Sanctimonious? Sanctimonious? I don't care if I appear sanctimonious. I'm not going to let this buffoon get away with this shit he's trying to pull. I'm going to verbally attack him any way I can. There's going to be a divisive conflict in this country that will be like nothing anyone has seen since Vietnam. I know which side I'm on. Do you?
I'm with the side that fought ro protect the 2nd amendment.
Quote: rxwineLook, the FBI could have investigated you at one time and you'd never know it.
But we do know for a fact that they
are in a major investigation of the
foundation and it's always been the
major focus, not the email scandal.
The Wikileaks from Podesta revealed
that even he was nervous about the
poor judgement the Clinton's were
using about running the foundation.
Quote: beachbumbabsThe laughable part is that you (Trump voters) elected a guy .
The main thing was keeping the Clinton
Crime Family out of there, Trump was
just a useful tool. I don't care what
kind of president he'll make, we lived
thru Jimma Carter, we can live thru
anything.
Quote: beachbumbabs. Good luck with that ride across the river, Kermit, and thanks for dragging the rest of us down with you.
Quote: MathExtremistI agree with him on one point: Obamacare is a mess. That's because it's a cobbled-together mishmash of policy aimed at placating opposed social views. Single-payer (e.g., Medicare-for-all) would be far less messy and far more efficient. It would ruin the private health insurance business, though. What's more important? Taking care of people or taking care of for-profit health-insurance companies?
To me it's a no-brainer. The health and well-being of the population is a public good. GDP is highest when everyone is as healthy and productive as they can be. And since the free markets have been shown to be ineffective at providing for that public good (e.g., denying coverage to already-sick people) then the only recourse is for government to step in.
Some other people don't think Single-Payer Health Coverage is the only way for the government to "step in" to medical services arena. I think a few of them might have voted on Tuesday, but don't quote me on that.
The fact that the Medicare System is set up to run out of money in the coming years has raised some questions about whether that Government Run System for our 65+ population is really working that well. Of course the solution is we just need to get some more Medicare Tax revenue from those wealthy folks that aren't paying their fair share, problem solved.
Couple that with the fact that private MediGap and Supplemental Medicare Insurance Policies exist because the only example of single payer health plans we have in this country, Medicare, doesn't give a lot of people the coverage or the level of service they desire. If it did, people wouldn't buy additional private supplemental insurance coverage after age 65, but they do for some strange reason.
But yeah, single payer health insurance for all of us...of course...it's a "no brainer" and clearly the only way forward. There are no other good ideas out there that come close to real progress in solving the health insurance/medical care crisis we have in this country. At least that is what I heard somewhere and it sounded smart.
Sarcasm aside, what are they? And if they involve multiple for-profit corporations taking money out of the system along the way, why are they more efficient in providing healthcare than a single-payer system?Quote: ParadigmBut yeah, single payer health insurance for all of us...of course...it's a "no brainer" and clearly the only way forward. There are no other good ideas out there that come close to real progress in solving the health insurance/medical care crisis we have in this country. At least that is what I heard somewhere and it sounded smart.
To put it another way, please refute this:
http://www.pnhp.org/
Quote: lilredrooster
Sanctimonious? Sanctimonious? I don't care if I appear sanctimonious. I'm not going to let this buffoon get away with this shit he's trying to pull. I'm going to verbally attack him any way I can. There's going to be a divisive conflict in this country that will be like nothing anyone has seen since Vietnam. I know which side I'm on. Do you?
I do! I'm on the side, a side that might be shrinking, that would just as soon not see a divisive conflict in this country that will be like nothing anyone has seen since Vietnam. Fortunately, I think we will grow in number again as time goes on because there have been several Presidents that a substantial portion of the Nation had not voted for, a few Presidents that were elected with less than half of the Popular Vote, and even a few who lost to their opponents in terms of the popular vote....and yet the nation has not collapsed in upon itself.
Donald Trump won this election because he appealed to everyone he possibly could and largely ignored the people to whom he had no hope of appealing. Along the way he talked a lot of crap, and I suspect that most of it was just that: talk. The big political accusation is that a candidate will say whatever he/she needs to in order to get elected, and I submit that Donald Trump didn't do anything other than exactly that. I'm willing to wait and see what happens, for the time being.
Quote: Mission146
Donald Trump won this election because he appealed to everyone he possibly could and largely ignored the people to whom he had no hope of appealing.
Trump had a rally here earlier this week
and I went. 15,000+ people there, the
energy in the crowd was like it was New
Years Eve. My brother in law went to the
last rally here and just raved about it.
If he got this kind of reaction everywhere
he went, and we heard he did, I don't know
to what to make of it unless the people
of the US are just sick and tired of the status
quo. It was a vote against something rather
than a vote for something. We don't know
what we'll get, but we're sick of what we had.
Indeed, we don't have any idea what we'll get. Trump had fewer concrete policy proposals than anyone I can remember, and he's already changed course on one of his biggest (immediately repealing Obamacare). It's a scathing indictment of the American electorate that so many people are so upset that they're willing to risk charting a completely unpredictable outcome for the federal government going forward. Trump once told African American voters, "what do you have to lose" and "it cannot get any worse." He then went on to say "and believe me, I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna make it so good."Quote: EvenBobIf he got this kind of reaction everywhere
he went, and we heard he did, I don't know
to what to make of it unless the people
of the US are just sick and tired of the status
quo. It was a vote against something rather
than a vote for something. We don't know
what we'll get, but we're sick of what we had.
Well, yeah, it can get worse. It can get a lot worse. The fact that millions of people voted for someone who waved his hands and shouted "believe me, I'm gonna fix it" -- without any credible evidence that he has the willingness or ability to fix it -- is just so disappointing.
If your car breaks down, you're on the side of the road looking under the hood, and you don't know what to do to get it started again, you call a tow truck to take it to a mechanic. Yes, tow trucks are expensive. Yes, mechanics are expensive. But the purpose of a tow truck is to get your broken car to an auto mechanic, and the purpose of an auto mechanic is to fix your car. If a kid cruises by on a skateboard and says "believe me, I'm gonna fix it, I'm gonna make it so good," you don't hand him your keys. Sure, the kid might actually be the best auto mechanic on the planet ... but probably not.
Trump was a strongly -EV bet for people who aren't like Trump. We're going to lose a lot on this gamble, and I don't just mean money.
Quote: MathExtremistSarcasm aside, what are they? And if they involve multiple for-profit corporations taking money out of the system along the way, why are they more efficient in providing healthcare than a single-payer system?
You think a single-payer system does not take money out of the system along the way? You think because the profit motive is not there that there is still a motive to operate efficiently?
Who operates more efficient, USPS or Fedex? (No offense, Face)
How high of quality of care does the VA give?
Profit is a good thing. It makes an operation try to be more efficient. Why do you want no choice?
Quote: AZDuffmanYou think a single-payer system does not take money out of the system along the way? You think because the profit motive is not there that there is still a motive to operate efficiently?
Who operates more efficient, USPS or Fedex?
For many, many years a big reason for Fedex's success was that they screwed their drivers, classifying them as independent contractors instead of employees which meant they didn't have to offer them benefits or pay for those benefits. Lawsuits popped up all over the country and Fedex settled paying out big bucks. Now, they've found other ways around the issue, other ways not to have to pay for their benefits.
http://wageadvocates.com/fedex-settles-delivery-driver-lawsuits/
