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Poll

57 votes (47.89%)
33 votes (27.73%)
12 votes (10.08%)
10 votes (8.4%)
4 votes (3.36%)
3 votes (2.52%)

119 members have voted

boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
  • Threads: 17
  • Posts: 5994
September 21st, 2016 at 8:53:17 PM permalink
Sigh.... So here we are, what 7 weeks out from the election, and the polls have it at a virtual tie, and as a Canadian observing this thing, I have a difficult time explaining to my Canadian friends why Clinton isn't wiping up the floor over Trump.

With Clinton, you have a known person who is a typical politician who will cover-up half-truths and lies. Even the staunchiest Dems will admit that Clinton screwed up her E-mail server issue, which to me is a huge character issue and not a security issue. If Hillary gets elected, it's the same-old, same-old politics, with nothing significant getting done in Washington and 4 to 8 more years of frustration. People who are voting for Trump are effectively not voting for Hillary. And Hillary certainly didn't help things with her alienating comments a couple of weeks ago which was a death knell for Romney with the 47% comment that he made.

On the Trump side, here is a demagogue narcissist ass***e of a businessman who got a million buck starter fund and managed to use the laws to become very rich by not being liable for his business mistakes (Atlantic City). He's sexist. He's racist. He's stupid. He's endorsed by dictators. He won't release his tax returns because it would probably show a tax rate of something like 5% and no Charitable donations. There are plenty of present scandals to dodge him as well, like Trump University, paying legal fees out of his Foundation, and so on. Yet he was able to do an end-run around 16 other GOP candidates to win the nomination. Mexico will not pay for the wall, and he will not be able to reduce crime or get rid of the terrorists nor does he have any idea of how he is going to quell terrorism. His tax plan is estimated to cost 1.5 trillion dollars.

Yet his message, "make America Great again" is a winning marketing slogan, isn't it? In fact, it's huge. Because people feel like they don't have the opportunity their parents had and feel like their children are going to be worst off. There are smidgens of terrorist attacks (which pale in comparison to gun deaths and homegrown mass shootings). There is racial unrest. People are afraid. Americans love to be afraid and act on their fears. Somehow a portion of the population believes that Trump can somehow "make the nation better" but he really has no plans except make people afraid and get on Hillary for Email and Benghazi and her Foundation. Believe me.

No one who is voting for Trump cares about any of this. They are voting for Trump because they are not voting for Hillary. Any lie that he makes doesn't compare with bringing back in a Clinton. And that's why this thing is close. Fear, and voting against Hillary.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
777
777
Joined: Oct 7, 2015
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 724
September 22nd, 2016 at 5:32:46 AM permalink
Quote: Joeshlabotnik

The moderators have already said that it isn't their job to call Trump out on his lies. That wimp who pseudo-moderated the earlier semi-debate was excoriated for not doing so, but he just shrugged. So yes, Trump will lie, and no, he won't be called out for it. So it's Clinton's job to do so, even if she has to break the rules to do it. Interjecting a derisive snort, shaking her head, or even simply saying "bullshit" (God, I wish SOMEONE would do that) would be a great and effective moment. I don't think that's Clinton's style, though.

It's not unlike when a lawyer says something he know the other side will object to, and then quickly says "withdrawn," but knows the jury has heard it anyway. Hillary MUST not rely on the superior logic and truth of her positions. Hasn't the campaign shown so far that logic and truth are ineffective anti-Trump weapons? What she has to do is yes, descend to his level. But he's much better at schoolyard brawling than she is.

So I expect Clinton to rationally, calmly point out her policy positions and the flaws in Trump's plans, and Trump to not answer a single question directly, lie unconvincingly, and evade any challenges while not saying a single thing of substance other than various insults of Hillary and immigrants, etc. And he will be proclaimed the winner of the debate.



Clinton needs to stop taking a knife to a gun fight

The stakes couldn't be higher for Clinton. It's a cruel twist of fate that the most qualified person to ever stand in a Presidential election finds herself running against a populist celebrity candidate. But that's where we are.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/21/opinions/clinton-needs-to-fight-trump-mcternan-opinion/
Steverinos
Steverinos
Joined: Jul 6, 2016
  • Threads: 5
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September 22nd, 2016 at 9:46:13 AM permalink
I'm not at all surprised the race is tight. It was only a matter of time before the Republicans fell in line behind Trump. They put party before country for the entirety of Obama's presidency. To believe that they would put the country first now was laughable.
terapined
terapined
Joined: Dec 1, 2012
  • Threads: 86
  • Posts: 5803
September 22nd, 2016 at 10:04:02 AM permalink
Quote: Steverinos

I'm not at all surprised the race is tight. It was only a matter of time before the Republicans fell in line behind Trump. They put party before country for the entirety of Obama's presidency. To believe that they would put the country first now was laughable.



Yup
Ol Mitch McConnell
His job is to do what is best for the Country
Mitch could care less about the country
He famously said his job is to make sure Obama is a one term President
Pretty sad
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
ams288
ams288
Joined: Sep 26, 2012
  • Threads: 22
  • Posts: 5464
September 22nd, 2016 at 10:24:48 AM permalink
Hillary is off the campaign trail today prepping for the debate.

No one knows who the Clinton campaign has got playing Trump in their mock debates during her prep. It's the question of the moment.

Last I heard, Trump doesn't want to do a full mock debate like candidates usually do in preparation. Roger Ailes may have convinced him otherwise by now though...
Ding Dong the Witch is Dead
Joeshlabotnik
Joeshlabotnik
Joined: Jul 27, 2016
  • Threads: 20
  • Posts: 943
September 22nd, 2016 at 10:49:46 AM permalink
Quote: ams288

Hillary is off the campaign trail today prepping for the debate.

No one knows who the Clinton campaign has got playing Trump in their mock debates during her prep. It's the question of the moment.

Last I heard, Trump doesn't want to do a full mock debate like candidates usually do in preparation. Roger Ailes may have convinced him otherwise by now though...



Well, when the proper strategy is probably "be yourself," he doesn't really need to prep for that. Anyway, if he tried to close the massive gap on policy and knowledge, he'd fail. I expect him to revert to the ignorant, obnoxious douchebaggery that worked so well for him in the primaries. And really, that's all he's got. He knows he'll get an utterly free pass on any shit he says, whereas if Hillary stutters or hiccups, the Dumbverse will immediately be flooded with claims that she's dying and shouldn't be elected.

I am not looking forward to this. I would rather watch rotten fruit being devoured by flies than see the Orange Orangutan open his stupid, evil mouth. But I'm sure millions of Trumpers will have orgasms.
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 2537
September 22nd, 2016 at 10:57:00 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Sigh.... So here we are, what 7 weeks out from the election, and the polls have it at a virtual tie, and as a Canadian observing this thing, I have a difficult time explaining to my Canadian friends why Clinton isn't wiping up the floor over Trump.

With Clinton, you have a known person who is a typical politician who will cover-up half-truths and lies. Even the staunchiest Dems will admit that Clinton screwed up her E-mail server issue, which to me is a huge character issue and not a security issue. If Hillary gets elected, it's the same-old, same-old politics, with nothing significant getting done in Washington and 4 to 8 more years of frustration. People who are voting for Trump are effectively not voting for Hillary. And Hillary certainly didn't help things with her alienating comments a couple of weeks ago which was a death knell for Romney with the 47% comment that he made.

On the Trump side, here is a demagogue narcissist ass***e of a businessman who got a million buck starter fund and managed to use the laws to become very rich by not being liable for his business mistakes (Atlantic City). He's sexist. He's racist. He's stupid. He's endorsed by dictators. He won't release his tax returns because it would probably show a tax rate of something like 5% and no Charitable donations. There are plenty of present scandals to dodge him as well, like Trump University, paying legal fees out of his Foundation, and so on. Yet he was able to do an end-run around 16 other GOP candidates to win the nomination. Mexico will not pay for the wall, and he will not be able to reduce crime or get rid of the terrorists nor does he have any idea of how he is going to quell terrorism. His tax plan is estimated to cost 1.5 trillion dollars.

Yet his message, "make America Great again" is a winning marketing slogan, isn't it? In fact, it's huge. Because people feel like they don't have the opportunity their parents had and feel like their children are going to be worst off. There are smidgens of terrorist attacks (which pale in comparison to gun deaths and homegrown mass shootings). There is racial unrest. People are afraid. Americans love to be afraid and act on their fears. Somehow a portion of the population believes that Trump can somehow "make the nation better" but he really has no plans except make people afraid and get on Hillary for Email and Benghazi and her Foundation. Believe me.

No one who is voting for Trump cares about any of this. They are voting for Trump because they are not voting for Hillary. Any lie that he makes doesn't compare with bringing back in a Clinton. And that's why this thing is close. Fear, and voting against Hillary.



Excellent post. Particularly about fear. Though Trump didn't "become very rich." He was born that way. How much he built or didn't build upon that fortune is a matter of debate.

There's also a probable low turn out for Hillary, as many on that side will stay home or vote 3rd. I have a personal policy, which I'm told is very unreasonable. I won't vote for anybody who has deliberately starved 500,000 children to death, as I refuse to participate in such things. Anyway, the DNC rammed a deeply disliked candidate down the pipe and, surprise surprise, people don't want to vote for someone they deeply dislike.

I think a lot of Trump support is like Let's Make A Deal, except you're initial prize is the goat. That makes picking what's behind the door more enticing, even though on this version, what's behind the door might be someone who walks out and punches you in the nose.

Donald, however, has a problem with big business Reps and especially libertarians. He's opposite libertarians on damn near every issue. Big business Republicans have a candidate, in Hillary. This should help her pull it out.
beerseason
beerseason
Joined: Aug 14, 2013
  • Threads: 4
  • Posts: 161
September 22nd, 2016 at 11:03:52 AM permalink
My prediction model update:

Trump/Pence: 43.42%
Clinton/Kaine 45.75%
Johnson/Weld 8.07%
Stein/Baraka 2.76%

Electoral Votes:

Trump/Pence 266
Clinton/Kaine 272
Rigondeaux
Rigondeaux
Joined: Aug 18, 2014
  • Threads: 30
  • Posts: 2537
September 22nd, 2016 at 11:05:54 AM permalink
Quote: beerseason

My prediction model update:

Trump/Pence: 43.42%
Clinton/Kaine 45.75%
Johnson/Weld 8.07%
Stein/Baraka 2.76%

Electoral Votes:

Trump/Pence 266
Clinton/Kaine 272



Sorry if I missed this, but how are you doing this?
Steverinos
Steverinos
Joined: Jul 6, 2016
  • Threads: 5
  • Posts: 1420
September 22nd, 2016 at 11:07:31 AM permalink
Hillary got close to 4 million more votes than Bernie. I understand the leaks from the DNC emails show some staffers favored Hillary, but this claim that there was some concerted effort from the DNC to push Hillary to the win is just wrong. 4 million more votes. 4 million.

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