2016 Election -- Part II

Quote: gamerfreak

This 200% sums up my concerns, thank you.

I'm 25 and currently running my own show solo and doing alright. I have a close friend who is 27 and started a manufacturing business in a thought to be dead industry to about ~$500k in 2 years. There are several people similar to us that have realize they can make a solid $60k-$100k for themselves with 0 to a couple dozen employees. But we needed to be treated the same, or at least similar, to big corps when it comes to areas like healthcare.

And speaking of new industries, it's also disturbing to me when Republicans talk about globalization like it it's Communism in the 1950's. For industries like manufacturing - sure. Build the biggest baddest wall you can imagine, and it's maybe possible you'll accomplish something. But I promise you will never ever block the 1's and 0's coming over from China, Russia, India, etc. Some industries need to compete in a global market and there is no way around that.

If you're a volunteer EMT and a solo business operator, you've got far more stamina than I do. Don't lose that, it will serve you well in the future.

I think it's becoming transparent how internally inconsistent the GOP platform is. You can't be anti-globalization and pro-free-market at the same time. You can't favor tariffs and free trade at the same time. There's an inherent friction between policies that allow big businesses to maximize their labor margins via outsourcing and policies that keep outsourceable jobs in the US. It's like the software project manager's credo: better, faster, cheaper -- pick two, you can't have all three.

I think the real problem with the conservative approach is that it applies the free market to people in a way that treats them like meat rather than people. If they succeed within the system, good for them, if they fail, tough crap. And the elite conservative free-marketeer is happy to stand on the pile of failed citizens rather than trying to prevent those failures in the first place. Yet social Darwinism is the opposite of what Trump supporters really voted for. They want help catching up, not some rich guy lording over them saying "you're all losers, my vast wealth is proof that I'm better than you." We don't solve that problem by building a wall, we solve that by building a robust voc-tech program and economic policies that give people enough time to make use of it. That means a robust safety net when entire industries implode. Take coal: due to shifts in the energy market, we don't need more coal miners, but we do need those strong-backed Americans to build what actually needs building. So retrain the miners to be bridge builders or highway maintenance engineers. And give the ones with desire the opportunity to innovate and become entrepreneurs. We have to stop treating working-class Americans like line items on a spreadsheet that can be eliminated by some bean counter in a corporate office in New York. People are not capital equipment. Our society has lost sight of that.

But in the saddest of ironies, one of the worst offenders against the working class has just been elected president. I honestly don't know what people were thinking. How does a working-class person vote for someone who has a long and well-documented history of trampling all over the working class?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/digger/wp/2017/01/06/third-lien-on-trump-hotel-brings-alleged-unpaid-bills-to-over-5-million/?utm_term=.b61fdf3fb649

Millions of honest, hard-working, tax-paying Americans just voted for a man who is none of those things. I can't explain it.

Quote: gamerfreak

Strange must be loading a different vid for you on youtube. Here is an un-edited part of the transcript for your reference instead:

Whatever your "proof" is, is not there. It's certainly not racism or sexism being displayed in the video. I'll assume you meant this is proof as him being a rapist. You do realize that he's not saying he's actually going to just start kissing her or grabbing her by the pussy? He's showing off. "I'm so rich and famous I can do anything and they want it" -- not "I can do anything I want and if she doesn't want it I do it anyway".

Quote: RS

Whatever your "proof" is, is not there. It's certainly not racism or sexism being displayed in the video. I'll assume you meant this is proof as him being a rapist. You do realize that he's not saying he's actually going to just start kissing her or grabbing her by the pussy? He's showing off. "I'm so rich and famous I can do anything and they want it" -- not "I can do anything I want and if she doesn't want it I do it anyway".

If Barack Obama had been caught on videotape saying exactly the same things, would you have been in favor of his impeachment?

Quote: MathExtremist

If Barack Obama had been caught on videotape saying exactly the same things, would you have been in favor of his impeachment?

The fact of the matter is that the OP made up the rapist charge out whole cloth. If you are supporting that, make it clear, and then we can have a discussion starting with Juanita Broadrick.

Quote: SanchoPanza

The fact of the matter is that the OP made up the rapist charge out whole cloth..

I think it's terrible Ted Cruz's father was involved in the JFK assassination. According to Trump anyway.

Trump has no problem with going with made up stuff to smear people. Why should it bother you if Trump drinks his own medicine?

Quote: SanchoPanza

The fact of the matter is that the OP made up the rapist charge out whole cloth. If you are supporting that, make it clear, and then we can have a discussion starting with Juanita Broadrick.

No, the fact of the matter is that the PEOTUS said he kisses women without permission and grabs them by the pussy. If you are supporting that, make it clear, and then we can have a discussion starting with the various states' definitions of criminalized sexual acts. For example:

Quote: New York Penal Law section 130.52

A person is guilty of forcible touching when such person intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, forcibly touches the sexual or other intimate parts of another person for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person;  or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire.
For the purposes of this section, forcible touching includes squeezing, grabbing or pinching.

http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-130-52.html

Quote: California Penal Code 243.4

(e) (1) Any person who touches an intimate part of another person, if the touching is against the will of the person touched, and is for the specific purpose of sexual arousal, sexual gratification, or sexual abuse, is guilty of misdemeanor sexual battery, punishable by a fine not exceeding two thousand dollars ($2,000), or by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding six months, or by both that fine and imprisonment.
(2) As used in this subdivision, “touches” means physical contact with another person, whether accomplished directly, through the clothing of the person committing the offense, or through the clothing of the victim.
(f) As used in subdivisions (a), (b), (c), and (d), “touches” means physical contact with the skin of another person whether accomplished directly or through the clothing of the person committing the offense.
(g) As used in this section, the following terms have the following meanings:
(1) “Intimate part” means the sexual organ, anus, groin, or buttocks of any person, and the breast of a female.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=243.4.

It sounds like you're strenuously objecting to Trump's actions being characterized as "rape." That's just a dodge. You'd be on firmer moral footing if you strenuously objected to Trump's actions period. Of course, if you think forcibly kissing or grabbing people is okay, we have a fundamental disagreement as to personal boundaries.

Ima rapist too cause I've never asked a girl for permission before I kissed her. Only a total dweeb would do that.

Oh boy I better lawyer up.

Ladies, all two of you, can you imagine dating in the future? You meet this awesome guy, have a wonderful time. You're walking by the beach and the moments right. You want him to kiss you. He leans in... and hands you a series of documents to sign before he does. "Initial here if it's ok that I touch your pussy"

Quote: RS

Whatever your "proof" is, is not there. It's certainly not racism or sexism being displayed in the video. I'll assume you meant this is proof as him being a rapist. You do realize that he's not saying he's actually going to just start kissing her or grabbing her by the pussy? He's showing off. "I'm so rich and famous I can do anything and they want it" -- not "I can do anything I want and if she doesn't want it I do it anyway".

Even if you want to discount the video, his extramarital affairs were very public. Those at least, are not a matter of opinion.

Why is it okay for Trump to do that when a previous president was impeached for literally the same thing?

Quote: RogerKint

Ladies, all two of you, can you imagine dating in the future? You meet this awesome guy have a wonderful time, you're walking by the beach and the moments right you want him to kiss you, he leans in... and hands you a series of documents to sign before he does. "Initial here if it's ok that I touch your pussy"

Quote: gamerfreak

Even if you want to discount the video, his extramarital affairs were very public. Those at least, are not a matter of opinion.

Why does Bill Clinton get impeached for doing the same exact thing as Trump, who just got elected, has done 100% on the record?

Extramarital affairs = rape. Got it.

Let me try one. White guy = racist. This is fun.

Quote: RogerKint

Extramarital affairs = rape. Got it.

Where did I say that?

I said you just elected a guy who did the same exact thing his party impeached another president for.

Quote: gamerfreak

Where did I say that?

I said you just elected a guy who did the same exact thing his party impeached another president for.

Why you so mad? Relax. Have a girl sign some documents you'll feel a lot better.

You called Donald trump a rapist and were asked to provide evidence. You provided audio and then said something about extramarital affairs. Besides, wasn't BC impeached because he lied under oath? I don't care I was like 5.

Quote: RogerKint

You called Donald trump a rapist and were asked to provide evidence. You provided audio and then said something about extramarital affairs.

A voice recorded admission, and a history of illegal sexual activity.

I'm sure some homeless guy has been convicted on much less than that.

Quote: gamerfreak

A voice recorded admission, and a history of illegal sexual activity.

I'm sure some homeless guy has been convicted on much less than that.

So cheating on your wife = rapist? Eh I don't care you win F trump lol

To imagine the situation correctly. You're a 30 year old very attractive guy. A 62 year old women you JUST met plants a wet kiss on your lips. Should she ask?

I'm an ageist though. Hate them old people touching me.

Quote: rxwine

To imagine the situation correctly. You're a 30 year old very attractive guy. A 62 year old women you JUST met plants a wet kiss on your lips. Should she ask?

I'm an ageist though. Hate them old people touching me.

Dude my old ass aunts would pinch my cheeks and try to make out all the time. Trust me if I had a pussy they woulda grabbed it but I don't think they're rapists.

Even devout sports fans get over losses and respect the team that beat their's. Gtf over it. Sorrryyyyyy.

The fed handed Trump a huge bubble anyway. Whoever is left at the wheel when this thing pops is gonna get blamed. So in a way this could be great for all the trump haters. No ones going to hold the fed accountable. I even saw someone here thank Obama cause the stock market went up. Comedy gold.

Quote: MathExtremist

No, the fact of the matter is that the PEOTUS said he kisses women without permission and grabs them by the pussy. If you are supporting that, make it clear, and then we can have a discussion starting with the various states' definitions of criminalized sexual acts. For example:

Quote: New York Penal Law section 130.52

A person is guilty of forcible touching when such person intentionally, and for no legitimate purpose, forcibly touches the sexual or other intimate parts of another person for the purpose of degrading or abusing such person;  or for the purpose of gratifying the actor's sexual desire.
For the purposes of this section, forcible touching includes squeezing, grabbing or pinching.

http://codes.findlaw.com/ny/penal-law/pen-sect-130-52.html


http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=243.4.

It sounds like you're strenuously objecting to Trump's actions being characterized as "rape." That's just a dodge. You'd be on firmer moral footing if you strenuously objected to Trump's actions period. Of course, if you think forcibly kissing or grabbing people is okay, we have a fundamental disagreement as to personal boundaries.

None of which constitutes rape in any jurisdiction. And no dodge is involved in posting an objection to an unmitigated phony libel. As for my or anyone else's "moral footing," you have no way of knowing the slightest bit about that. The OP clearly cannot discern the distinction between rape and harassment. The ability to see and understand that difference is surely something that cognizant adults could agree on.

Quote: SanchoPanza

None of which constitutes rape in any jurisdiction. And no dodge is involved in posting an objection to an unmitigated phony libel. As for my or anyone else's "moral footing," you have no way of knowing the slightest bit about that. The OP clearly cannot discern the distinction between rape and harassment. The ability to see and understand that difference is surely something that cognizant adults could agree on.

I certainly agree that what Trump admitted to was not rape, as that term is defined by the various legal statutes I've reviewed. But I hope you would agree that what Trump admitted on tape was a sexual crime in at least two states. Probably more, I just stopped looking after CA and NY.

Do you really think it matters whether the sex crime committed by the president-elect was "rape" or "forcible touching" or "sexual battery"? He admitted to a sex crime, then laughed about it and said it was no big deal! How can you possibly be okay with the president-elect celebrating sex crimes?

Trump: "I grabbed her by the pussy"
Judge: "You pervert, you're going to jail."
Trump: "But I ate some Tic Tacs first."
Judge: "Oh, okay then. Case dismissed."
DA: "Objection, Your Honor!"
Judge: "Wait, what kind of Tic Tacs were they?"
Trump: "Orange"
Judge (to Bailiff): "Take him away!"

Seriously, how on earth do you pretend to draw a line between someone like Donald Trump violating a woman's sexual privacy in an "acceptable" manner vs. one that's not? Do you think it's okay if he grabs a woman by the pussy? If so, what if he sodomizes the same woman with a pool cue? Not okay? So the line is somewhere in between?

I think most father's of daughters would object to being told by their daughter that some guy they just met felt he was entitled to something more than a handshake. But maybe I'm wrong.

Quote: rxwine

I think most father's of daughters would object to being told by their daughter that some guy they just met felt he was entitled to something more than a handshake. But maybe I'm wrong.

I am a father of daughters and I'm in the situation where I have to tell my kids that the incoming president is not someone to look up to as a role model. Sad!

Quote: MathExtremist

I certainly agree that what Trump admitted to was not rape, as that term is defined by the various legal statutes I've reviewed. But I hope you would agree that what Trump admitted on tape was a sexual crime in at least two states. Probably more, I just stopped looking after CA and NY.

Do you really think it matters whether the sex crime committed by the president-elect was "rape" or "forcible touching" or "sexual battery"? He admitted to a sex crime, then laughed about it and said it was no big deal! How can you possibly be okay with the president-elect celebrating sex crimes?

Trump: "I grabbed her by the pussy"
Judge: "You pervert, you're going to jail."
Trump: "But I ate some Tic Tacs first."
Judge: "Oh, okay then. Case dismissed."
DA: "Objection, Your Honor!"
Judge: "Wait, what kind of Tic Tacs were they?"
Trump: "Orange"
Judge (to Bailiff): "Take him away!"

Seriously, how on earth do you pretend to draw a line between someone like Donald Trump violating a woman's sexual privacy in an "acceptable" manner vs. one that's not? Do you think it's okay if he grabs a woman by the pussy? If so, what if he sodomizes the same woman with a pool cue? Not okay? So the line is somewhere in between?

First, Orange tic tacs would have gotten the case dismissed cause they're the best. Second, my interpretation was that trump was saying "girls are so super stoked on me I could just randomly grab their pussiess and they're like 'thaaaaaaanks." The reason I have this interpretation is because once he meets the attractive woman in the video there's no pussy grab. Super douchey? No doubt. Admission of rape? Lol

Quote: MathExtremist

I certainly agree that what Trump admitted to was not rape, as that term is defined by the various legal statutes I've reviewed. But I hope you would agree that what Trump admitted on tape was a sexual crime in at least two states. Probably more, I just stopped looking after CA and NY.

Do you really think it matters whether the sex crime committed by the president-elect was "rape" or "forcible touching" or "sexual battery"? He admitted to a sex crime, then laughed about it and said it was no big deal! How can you possibly be okay with the president-elect celebrating sex crimes?

Trump: "I grabbed her by the pussy"
Judge: "You pervert, you're going to jail."
Trump: "But I ate some Tic Tacs first."
Judge: "Oh, okay then. Case dismissed."
DA: "Objection, Your Honor!"
Judge: "Wait, what kind of Tic Tacs were they?"
Trump: "Orange"
Judge (to Bailiff): "Take him away!"

Seriously, how on earth do you pretend to draw a line between someone like Donald Trump violating a woman's sexual privacy in an "acceptable" manner vs. one that's not? Do you think it's okay if he grabs a woman by the pussy? If so, what if he sodomizes the same woman with a pool cue? Not okay? So the line is somewhere in between?

Now that the standard radical tactics of putting words like "acceptable" in someone else's mouth and creating 100% ridiculously imaginary and perverted scenarios have been employed, it has become perfectly clear to what the depth the level of scruples has sunk.

Quote: RogerKint

First, Orange tic tacs would have gotten the case dismissed cause they're the best. Second, my interpretation was that trump was saying "girls are so super stoked on me I could just randomly grab their pussiess and they're like 'thaaaaaaanks." The reason I have this interpretation is because once he meets the attractive woman in the video there's no pussy grab. Super douchey? No doubt. Admission of rape? Lol

The rapist thing was two-fold. Ivana Trump said Trump raped her in a deposition from their divorce. She later recanted or something .

The other part was Trump's friend the sleeze bag pimp guy who supposedly provided him at least one unwilling young teen. I don't know any details beyond the initial reporting. Could be nothing, could have been paid off, who knows.

Quote: SanchoPanza

Now that the standard radical tactics of putting words like "acceptable" in someone else's mouth and creating 100% ridiculously imaginary and perverted scenarios have been employed, it has become perfectly clear to what the depth the level of scruples has sunk.

Do you, or do you not, find the behavior of forcibly kissing women and grabbing them by the pussy to be acceptable behavior for a United States President?

There are only two answers, yes or no. If the answer is "no" then you should consider why you're so often an apologist for Trump's nasty behavior. I'm not the one grabbing strangers' genitals.

And if your answer is "yes" then criticizing anyone else for sunken scruples is just pathetic.

Quote: djatc

Simpsons did it!

Quote: beachbumbabs

The rapist thing was two-fold. Ivana Trump said Trump raped her in a deposition from their divorce. She later recanted or something .

The other part was Trump's friend the sleeze bag pimp guy who supposedly provided him at least one unwilling young teen. I don't know any details beyond the initial reporting. Could be nothing, could have been paid off, who knows.

Yup so until we do know let's just just keep calling our next pres a rapist. The thing is, the more the whining from the left continues the more the people in the middle are going to brace against it. If all the anti trump stuff in the mainstream worked, he wouldn't have gotten elected. "Fake news" wasn't a problem 5+ years ago because people wholeheartedly trusted their news sources. Even baby boomers who believed people played golf on the moon are starting to wake tf up. After brexit, and this election, the mainstream have started to lose control of our hearts and minds. And that's exciting.

Quote: RogerKint

Yup so until we do know let's just just keep calling our next pres a rapist. The thing is, the more the whining from the left continues the more the people in the middle are going to brace against it. If all the anti trump stuff in the mainstream worked, he wouldn't have gotten elected. "Fake news" wasn't a problem 5+ years ago because people wholeheartedly trusted their news sources. Even baby boomers who believed people played golf on the moon are starting to wake tf up. After brexit, and this election, the mainstream have started to lose control of our hearts and minds. And that's exciting.

I know I saw someone say, people trust the mainstream media less than they used to. Don't know where people got the idea that rightwing talking points apply to everyone.

I trust it no more or less than I used to 1, 5 or 20 years ago. And I've heard the constant refrain of lamestream media which is also a rightwing talking point.

So more than one side needs to remember generalities they think are applying to everyone aren't.

Quote: RogerKint

Yup so until we do know let's just just keep calling our next pres a rapist. The thing is, the more the whining from the left continues the more the people in the middle are going to brace against it. If all the anti trump stuff in the mainstream worked, he wouldn't have gotten elected. "Fake news" wasn't a problem 5+ years ago because people wholeheartedly trusted their news sources. Even baby boomers who believed people played golf on the moon are starting to wake tf up. After brexit, and this election, the mainstream have started to lose control of our hearts and minds. And that's exciting.

It's only exciting if you're replacing that control with self-generated skeptical inquiry and critical thought. I've seen stories about some guy who literally just made crap up and got paid thousands of dollars in click revenue from bogus news stories. The reason he made those thousands of dollars is because tens or hundreds of thousands of people clicked on his stuff. It's fine to be skeptical of the mainstream media, but it's silly to throw over professional news journalists and, in their place, get your news from faceless, anonymous bloggers and chat-room participants.

And what do you make of the trend of ignoring firsthand evidence? When Romney was caught on tape with his line about the 47%, it basically derailed his campaign. Trump was caught on tape sniggering about grabbing women's genitals and he got elected. What changed?

Quote: MathExtremist

It's only exciting if you're replacing that control with self-generated skeptical inquiry and critical thought. I've seen stories about some guy who literally just made crap up and got paid thousands of dollars in click revenue from bogus news stories. The reason he made those thousands of dollars is because tens or hundreds of thousands of people clicked on his stuff. It's fine to be skeptical of the mainstream media, but it's silly to throw over professional news journalists and, in their place, get your news from faceless, anonymous bloggers and chat-room participants.

And what do you make of the trend of ignoring firsthand evidence? When Romney was caught on tape with his line about the 47%, it basically derailed his campaign. Trump was caught on tape sniggering about grabbing women's genitals and he got elected. What changed?

He probably had some bikini babes on the freeze frame of his videos for click bait. Or maybe he led with "White cop tortures black baby in front of starving immigrants!" He learned from the best.

What changed? Mitt Romney wasn't running against HRC.

Quote: RogerKint

Yup so until we do know let's just just keep calling our next pres a rapist.

Does "alleged rapist" work better for you?

Quote: ams288

Does "alleged rapist" work better for you?

No, you don’t have to use the term “alledged rapist” to satisfy Trumpers.

Trump is a rapist. Period.

The fact that Trumpers demand the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard in criminal court rather than the “preponderance of evidence” standard in civil court in defending Trump’s racist, sexist & rapist conducts is a clear indication of their hypocrisy.

If the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard were applied to all candidates in the 2016 election or any other elections, then all (or perhaps nearly all) the accusations of misconducts (absent criminal convictions) against all candidates should not have been made.

For ordinary citizens -- the “preponderance of evidence” standard should not be used because their actions or conducts do not influence the policy makings or the society in a broader context. For candidates running for offices, the standard of proof can and should be lower because their past/present/future conducts can greatly influence policy makings or the society. And for this reason, a “preponderance of evidence” standard is applied.

There are ample of evidences or the “preponderance of evidences” point to Trump as a racist, sexist, and rapist.

Let’s take the Trump, the rapist, as an example: A lawsuit filed by his wife accusing Trump of raping her, another child rape lawsuit (Trumpers will have to look this up and I’ll not do the home for you) accusing Trump of raping a young teen stemming from an infamous sex parties held by Trump's friend billionaire and known pedophile Jeffrey Epstein, Trump's admitted adulteries, Trump’s own words of degrading woman, Trump's proud display misogyny/sexist conducts, numerous sexual harassment accusations against Trump and so on.

Although Trump is not a convicted rapist, but if you look at Trump’s pattern of past and present behaviors and collective evidences of “preponderance of evidence,” then any non-Trumper person could/would reasonable draw a conclusion that Trump is a rapist.

There are plenty of evidences of the “preponderance of evidence” that point to Trump, the rapist than the evidences of “preponderance of evidence” that point to Hillary, the “email-ist” (for lack of better term).

P.S.
I deliberately bring the “email” into this discussion because I want to watch Trumpers on this board to explode in jubilant, and to further expose their hypocrisy. Now, let’s sit back and watch them start talking about the email, email, email, and then follow up with their very famous “lock her up” chants.

Quote: ams288

Does "alleged rapist" work better for you?

Who is doing the "alleging"?

Quote: beachbumbabs

The rapist thing was two-fold. Ivana Trump said Trump raped her in a deposition from their divorce. She later recanted or something .

The other part was Trump's friend the sleeze bag pimp guy who supposedly provided him at least one unwilling young teen. I don't know any details beyond the initial reporting. Could be nothing, could have been paid off, who knows.

All that is nowhere as substantive as all the trips Clinton made with Jeffrey Epstein to Orgy Island.

Quote: 777

No, you don’t have to use the term “alledged rapist” to satisfy Trumpers.

Trump is a rapist. Period.

The fact that Trumpers demand the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard in criminal court rather than the “preponderance of evidence” standard in civil court in defending Trump’s racist, sexist & rapist conducts is a clear indication of their hypocrisy.

I wouldn't go that far. I don't dispute that much of what the rabid, unthinking Trump supporters say and do is highly hypocritical, but applying a criminal evidentiary standard when evaluating a criminal act is appropriate. Rape is not a tortious act, it's a criminal one. Don't let your frustration with Trump's behavior -- and worse, the tolerance of that behavior by his disciples -- lead you down a path that jettisons the 5th Amendment right to due process. Trump is an asshat, and many of his supporters applaud his asshattery even if they'd oppose it in other politicians. Trump is very good at playing to the aspirations of his audience, aspirations that include luxury, wealth, and power, even though it's transparent to those who already have luxury, wealth or power that he's just running a con game. The answer isn't to hate the millions who have been conned. That's like hating drug addicts instead of trying to eradicate the drugs in the first place. If you want to expend energy, expend it in changing the environment that led to the rise of a demagogue like Trump in the first place.

Quote: MathExtremist

Do you really think it matters whether the sex crime committed by the president-elect was "rape" or "forcible touching" or "sexual battery"?

Please cite the reference where he was convicted of such crime? Please cite the reference where any jurisdiction has charged DJT with a sex crime?
If all you have is a buffoon bragging to a loser that he could do to women as he pleases, then yeah, he is a buffoon, but his babbling about it does make it true.
So, ME, if you want to say "anyone who would say what DJT said should not be President", it would be hard to argue with you. But to continually claim he ACTUALLY committed the crime is not necessarily true.

Quote: SanchoPanza

All that is nowhere as substantive as all the trips Clinton made with Jeffrey Epstein to Orgy Island.

In a typical divorce, there could be revenge, or extortion factors to gain leverage in negotiation, or pay-off instances for publicity or other financial/personal reasons. With regarding Ivana Trump rape claim, it is possible Trump did rape her, and she later recanted in exchange for something, and it is also possible that her accusation was a vindictive act. Without cross examinations of Ivana, it would be unreasonable to concluded that Trump raped Ivana. However, if you look at Trump’s pattern of past and present behaviors, many other sexual harassment accusations, and collective evidences of Trump behaviors toward women, then you can build a case by “preponderance of evidence” that Trump did indeed rape Ivana.

Raping a child would be much worse than raping an adult or a spouse. Again, you could apply the same logic here because Trump is a politician whose past/present/future conducts could greatly impact the lives of hundreds of millions of American.

Just because Clinton had used Jeffrey Epstein’s airplane or just being friend with Jeffrey, then Ivana’s rape accusation become meaningless is not a good way to defend Trump. Your defending of Trump would carry some weight or create some skepticism if you question Ivana’s motive, or other evidences, (circumstantial or not) that point to Ivana as a not trust worthy person …

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Washington Post
 - ‎2 hours ago‎

It's no secret that Hollywood skews liberal, and there were probably few Donald Trump fans in the audience at Sunday's Golden Globes. And although the awards show kicked off with a few jokes at the president-elect's expense, Meryl Streep took a serious ...
Television|Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech
New York Times
 - ‎12 hours ago‎



Turning attention away from her and toward Donald J. Trump, Meryl Streep used her acceptance speech for the Cecil B. DeMille Award at the Golden Globes to call out the president-elect for appearing to mock a disabled New York Times reporter in 2015 ...
Opinion
Kellyanne Conway Says Donald Trump Shouldn't Be Held Accountable For The Things He Says
Huffington Post
 - ‎1 hour ago‎



Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway said reporters should look at what's in the president-elect's heart instead of holding him accountable for the words he says. Kellyanne Conway, a key adviser to Donald Trump who ran his 2016 campaign, defended the ...
Review: Golden Globes Broadcast Starts Strong but Fades in Choppy Second Half
Variety
 - ‎10 hours ago‎



As Golden Globes broadcasts go, the 2017 edition of the extravaganza probably lands somewhere in the middle of the pack. There were some unexpected moments, a few moving speeches and exciting wins, an array of inevitable sleepy patches and a host ...
Trump Slams Meryl After Golden Globes Speech
Daily Beast
 - ‎4 hours ago‎



Donald Trump on Monday launched a scathing Twitter attack on actress Meryl Streep, whom he called “over-rated,” following her Lifetime Achievement Award acceptance speech at the Golden Globes. Streep featured Trump in her speech on Sunday night, ...
Highly Cited
Movies|Donald Trump Says He's Not Surprised by Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech
New York Times
 - ‎10 hours ago‎



Meryl Streep at the 74th Golden Globes in Beverly Hills, Calif., on Sunday. Credit Paul Drinkwater/NBC. President-elect Donald J. Trump dismissed Meryl Streep as “a Hillary lover” early Monday morning after the actress, in a speech at the Golden Globes ...
Featured
Trump Reacts to Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech on Twitter
ELLE.com
 - ‎3 hours ago‎



The president-elect responded to Streep's calling him a bully...by calling her "one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood." Most Popular. Getty. Created with Sketch. By Sally Holmes and Mattie Kahn. Jan 9, 2017. He made it through the night.
Meryl Streep Just Denounced Trump and Called for Freedom of the Press in One Truly Epic Golden Globes Speech
MarieClaire.com
 - ‎12 hours ago‎

Quote: MathExtremist

Quote: 777

No, you don’t have to use the term “alledged rapist” to satisfy Trumpers.

Trump is a rapist. Period.

The fact that Trumpers demand the “beyond reasonable doubt” standard in criminal court rather than the “preponderance of evidence” standard in civil court in defending Trump’s racist, sexist & rapist conducts is a clear indication of their hypocrisy.

I wouldn't go that far. I don't dispute that much of what the rabid, unthinking Trump supporters say and do is highly hypocritical, but applying a criminal evidentiary standard when evaluating a criminal act is appropriate. Rape is not a tortious act, it's a criminal one. Don't let your frustration with Trump's behavior -- and worse, the tolerance of that behavior by his disciples -- lead you down a path that jettisons the 5th Amendment right to due process. Trump is an asshat, and many of his supporters applaud his asshattery even if they'd oppose it in other politicians. Trump is very good at playing to the aspirations of his audience, aspirations that include luxury, wealth, and power, even though it's transparent to those who already have luxury, wealth or power that he's just running a con game. The answer isn't to hate the millions who have been conned. That's like hating drug addicts instead of trying to eradicate the drugs in the first place. If you want to expend energy, expend it in changing the environment that led to the rise of a demagogue like Trump in the first place.

Rape and murder are criminal acts, but can also be filed in the civil court. Take one very famous instance, OJ was not a murder in the court, but he was "convicted" in the civil court.

With regarding to the politic and the court of public opinion, there should not be a distinguish between criminal, civil or any standard (as long as the source of the evidences are not "fake news" or fabricated) because the public is well serve by pointing the candidate strength/weakness, positive/negative ... and the voters will make their own judgments.

Quote: ams288

That's a dumb answer.

I'm assuming you support the repeal of Obamacare.

So for those ~20 million people who are about to lose coverage thanks to the Republicans, the ones who already have medical conditions are just out of luck and don't deserve any new coverage, in RS's eyes?

Why does the media keep sayng they will lose coverage? It's still there, they just have to actually pay for it, instead of you and I paying for it for them.

Quote: Boz

Why does the media keep saving they will lose coverage? It's still there, they just have to actually pay for it, instead of you and I paying for it for them.

Thanks. I tried to say something like this over three long paragraphs. How many of those 20 million will get on there Iphone 8's and text saying they have no money for the insurance?

Quote: MathExtremist

And what do you make of the trend of ignoring firsthand evidence? When Romney was caught on tape with his line about the 47%, it basically derailed his campaign. Trump was caught on tape sniggering about grabbing women's genitals and he got elected. What changed?

An angry electorate sick of being told what to think and what is ok to say. All it took to change enough to swing the election was a bad Dem candidate and a GOP'er who did say what many thought but were afraid to say. And I'm not speaking about the "Grab" quote.

I still think you don't get how many Americans were fed up.

Quote: SOOPOO

Please cite the reference where he was convicted of such crime? Please cite the reference where any jurisdiction has charged DJT with a sex crime?
If all you have is a buffoon bragging to a loser that he could do to women as he pleases, then yeah, he is a buffoon, but his babbling about it does make it true.
So, ME, if you want to say "anyone who would say what DJT said should not be President", it would be hard to argue with you. But to continually claim he ACTUALLY committed the crime is not necessarily true.

Let’s not be confused between the court of law and the court of public opinion, especially the court of public opinion in a politically charged environment.

In the court of public opinion, any political candidate running for office could be one thing to one side and something else to the other based on individual or collective of evidences from public sources, and it is up to the voters to decide. My position of Trump as a racist, sexist, and rapist are based on collection of real evidences, but not the fake news or fabricated evidences. If there are evidences that show that Ivana's and the child's accusations were fabricated by them, then my position on Trump as a rapist will be re-evaluated accordingly.

Quote: terapined

The leading story on the planet today
How pissed off Trump is at Streep
wow
What a thin skinned chump

Donald Trump attacks Streep for speech at Golden Globes
CNN
(CNN) Meryl Streep never mentioned President-elect Donald Trump by name during her six-minute condemnation at the Golden Globes. He had no problem going after her directly. In a series of tweets before dawn Monday, he called Streep, who has more ...
Streep takes on Trump while accepting lifetime award Globe; President-elect tweets reply
WJLA
 - ‎8 minutes ago‎
Kellyanne Conway's deflects bigly: “Why isn't Meryl Streep talking about those Chicago teens instead?”
Salon
 - ‎43 minutes ago‎
'He's making a disgusting gesture': CNN anchor spars with top Trump adviser over Meryl Streep, disabled reporter
Business Insider
 - ‎47 minutes ago‎
President-elect Donald Trump fires back after called-out by Meryl Streep at Golden Globes
FOX 5 DC
 - ‎57 minutes ago‎
Meryl Streep, Jerry Seinfeld, and More Celebrities Trump Deems Overrated
Vanity Fair
 - ‎1 hour ago‎
Donald Trump Denounces Meryl Streep and News Media After Tough Weekend
New York Times
 - ‎50 minutes ago‎


Outside of Meryl Streep's heartfelt and socially conscious Cecil B. DeMille Award acceptance speech, the 74th Golden Globe Awards show was pretty low-key -- but there were still a handful of notable moments. Here are a few. Jimmy Fallon had a Mariah ...
Meryl Streep Goes After Donald Trump In Powerful Golden Globe Speech
Huffington Post
 - ‎12 hours ago‎

Meryl Streep gave a career-defining speech Sunday after receiving the Cecil B. DeMille Award at the Golden Globes, slamming President-elect Donald Trump for his anti-immigration stances and for mocking a disabled reporter while campaigning for office.
Trending
Meryl Streep called out Donald Trump at the Golden Globes. He responded by calling her 'over-rated.'
Washington Post
 - ‎2 hours ago‎

It's no secret that Hollywood skews liberal, and there were probably few Donald Trump fans in the audience at Sunday's Golden Globes. And although the awards show kicked off with a few jokes at the president-elect's expense, Meryl Streep took a serious ...
Television|Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech
New York Times
 - ‎12 hours ago‎



Turning attention away from her and toward Donald J. Trump, Meryl Streep used her acceptance speech for the Cecil B. DeMille Award at the Golden Globes to call out the president-elect for appearing to mock a disabled New York Times reporter in 2015 ...
Opinion
Kellyanne Conway Says Donald Trump Shouldn't Be Held Accountable For The Things He Says
Huffington Post
 - ‎1 hour ago‎



Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway said reporters should look at what's in the president-elect's heart instead of holding him accountable for the words he says. Kellyanne Conway, a key adviser to Donald Trump who ran his 2016 campaign, defended the ...
Review: Golden Globes Broadcast Starts Strong but Fades in Choppy Second Half
Variety
 - ‎10 hours ago‎



As Golden Globes broadcasts go, the 2017 edition of the extravaganza probably lands somewhere in the middle of the pack. There were some unexpected moments, a few moving speeches and exciting wins, an array of inevitable sleepy patches and a host ...
Trump Slams Meryl After Golden Globes Speech
Daily Beast
 - ‎4 hours ago‎



Donald Trump on Monday launched a scathing Twitter attack on actress Meryl Streep, whom he called “over-rated,” following her Lifetime Achievement Award acceptance speech at the Golden Globes. Streep featured Trump in her speech on Sunday night, ...
Highly Cited
Movies|Donald Trump Says He's Not Surprised by Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech
New York Times
 - ‎10 hours ago‎



Meryl Streep at the 74th Golden Globes in Beverly Hills, Calif., on Sunday. Credit Paul Drinkwater/NBC. President-elect Donald J. Trump dismissed Meryl Streep as “a Hillary lover” early Monday morning after the actress, in a speech at the Golden Globes ...
Featured
Trump Reacts to Meryl Streep's Golden Globes Speech on Twitter
ELLE.com
 - ‎3 hours ago‎



The president-elect responded to Streep's calling him a bully...by calling her "one of the most over-rated actresses in Hollywood." Most Popular. Getty. Created with Sketch. By Sally Holmes and Mattie Kahn. Jan 9, 2017. He made it through the night.
Meryl Streep Just Denounced Trump and Called for Freedom of the Press in One Truly Epic Golden Globes Speech
MarieClaire.com
 - ‎12 hours ago‎

I can't wait for Trump's trade war with the Chinese live via Twitter. If this happens, be prepared to short Boeing (NYSE ticker symbol: BA)

Edit: Walmart could be another good candidate for shorting in a trade war????

Quote: Boz

Why does the media keep sayng they will lose coverage?

Because.... wait for it... they will lose coverage.

Quote:

It's still there, they just have to actually pay for it, instead of you and I paying for it for them.

What if they can't afford it (please spare me the fantasy examples about them affording iPhones but not insurance)? What if they have a pre-existing condition that prevented them from getting coverage before the ACA?

Are you sentencing them to death?

Quote: ams288

Because.... wait for it... they will lose coverage.
What if they can't afford it (please spare me the fantasy examples about them affording iPhones but not insurance)? What if they have a pre-existing condition that prevented them from getting coverage before the ACA?
Are you sentencing them to death?

They will join the 24 million whom Affordable Care left uncovered.

Mehhhh

Quote: 777

I can't wait for Trump's trade war with the Chinese live via Twitter. If this happens, be prepared to short Boeing (NYSE ticker symbol: BA)

After this morning, Jack Ma might just decide to buy BA.

Quote: terapined

The leading story on the planet today
How pissed off Trump is at Streep
wow
What a thin skinned chump

And we've got the Trumpsters twisting themselves into pretzels trying to defend Donald against Meryl:

"Celebrities need to keep stick to entertainment and keep their noses out of politics!"
*votes for unqualified reality TV star for President*

Quote: 777

Without cross examinations of Ivana, it would be unreasonable to concluded that Trump raped Ivana. However, if you look at Trump’s pattern of past and present behaviors, many other sexual harassment accusations, and collective evidences of Trump behaviors toward women, then you can build a case by “preponderance of evidence” that Trump did indeed rape Ivana.

Nothing like the significant sum that Paula Jones won.