Required Gratuity at Restaurants
May 3rd, 2012 at 11:54:54 AM
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I heard on the news that a family in Houston, Texas went to a seafood restaurant where it clearly noted on the bottom of the menu that "17% Percent Gratuity (Tip) Required for Parties of 5 or More". The family stated that the service was not good and asked to speak to a manager since they did not want to pay the gratuity. The manager informed them that they could not change the company policy and that the gratuity must be paid.
The family alleges that the restaurant staff would not allow them to leave the premises and that the police were called. Finally, the family decided to pay the 17% before they left. Of course, the fact that this has made national news is probably not good for this particular seafood restaurant.
However, my question is can the can the restaurant legally force you to pay this gratuity? It is clearly stated and posted on the menu.
The family alleges that the restaurant staff would not allow them to leave the premises and that the police were called. Finally, the family decided to pay the 17% before they left. Of course, the fact that this has made national news is probably not good for this particular seafood restaurant.
However, my question is can the can the restaurant legally force you to pay this gratuity? It is clearly stated and posted on the menu.
Lottery: A tax on people who are bad at math.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:02:50 PM
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Quote: Juyemura... my question is can the can the restaurant legally force you to pay this gratuity? It is clearly stated and posted on the menu.
I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that they can, just by calling it one of their charges. Places sell you stuff for $3 and then charge $20 shipping and handling when that probably only costs $2 or $3.
The more relevant question is why would a business be so stupid as to force such an issue when a customer says that service was poor?
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:05:06 PM
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i think this was discussed several times.
i know of at least THIS THREAD where this was discussed.
I think that there are probably consumer protection statutes that outline the legality of these types of things on a local basis.
I think it is wrong of the restaurant to try to enforce a gratuity for poor service.
I also think it is wrong that the wait staff is paid sub-minimum wage and the public is supposed to make up the difference.
My best friend refuses to tip above 10% unless there is exceptional service.
I hate to say it but I agree with his position on this.
i know of at least THIS THREAD where this was discussed.
I think that there are probably consumer protection statutes that outline the legality of these types of things on a local basis.
I think it is wrong of the restaurant to try to enforce a gratuity for poor service.
I also think it is wrong that the wait staff is paid sub-minimum wage and the public is supposed to make up the difference.
My best friend refuses to tip above 10% unless there is exceptional service.
I hate to say it but I agree with his position on this.
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:07:30 PM
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This is common policy for larger groups because when people split the bill they tend to "overlook" the tip. I disagree with the policy but it actually hurts restaurants in my case because I normally tip more than the standard amount if service is decent. Also, having this policy for a party of 5 is unusual.
I think the answer to the original question is yes. Why would they not be able to collect a charge that was clearly listed on the menu? But I agree with Doc that is is bad business, as is the party of 5 policy. This publicity will probably cost them a ton of business.
I think the answer to the original question is yes. Why would they not be able to collect a charge that was clearly listed on the menu? But I agree with Doc that is is bad business, as is the party of 5 policy. This publicity will probably cost them a ton of business.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:07:31 PM
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I have a "Canadian" friend who over tips just because he wants to help break the stereotype.
100% risk of ruin
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:12:03 PM
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is there a stereotype that canadians are poor tippers?
does he inform the waitress of his nationality on his way out the door?
does he inform the waitress of his nationality on his way out the door?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:17:55 PM
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I believe "canadian" is being used as a bit of a slang there.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:23:39 PM
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I said this on the other thread: expect bad service when you go into a restaurant with a large party. Even when the staff does their best, service will be middling to poor, especially when it comes time to serve the entrees. Likely they will take too long a time to get all orders ready for serving at the same time. That's the rationale for adding a mandatory tip to large parties. I agree 5 seems low for a threshold, but it does depend on the restaurant.
Walking out without paying a restaurant bill, or not paying it in full, is a crime in most jusrisdictions. Either theft or fraud, I think. And if the charge is mentioned on the menu, or you're advised of it beforehand, and it's legal in that jurisdiction, then you have to pay it. It seems poor business for the manager not to at least reduce the gratuity, but some people are bad at business.
I'm curious, though: who called the police, the restaurant or the customers?
Walking out without paying a restaurant bill, or not paying it in full, is a crime in most jusrisdictions. Either theft or fraud, I think. And if the charge is mentioned on the menu, or you're advised of it beforehand, and it's legal in that jurisdiction, then you have to pay it. It seems poor business for the manager not to at least reduce the gratuity, but some people are bad at business.
I'm curious, though: who called the police, the restaurant or the customers?
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:25:18 PM
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You hoser! Everybody can tell a Canadian from a kilometer away, eh?Quote: WongBois there a stereotype that canadians are poor tippers?
does he inform the waitress of his nationality on his way out the door?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:30:30 PM
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Quote: DocThe more relevant question is why would a business be so stupid as to force such an issue when a customer says that service was poor?
I am under the impression that:
(a) somehow, the restaurant keeps a record of which people were served by which staff, and
(b) the IRS makes the assumption that the average tip is something like 8%.
If both of these are something close to the truth, then the business has an interest in making sure tips are collected from large parties; otherwise, what waiters would want to serve them?
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:53:23 PM
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Quote: jml24But I agree with Doc that is is bad business, as is the party of 5 policy. This publicity will probably cost them a ton of business.
Stuff like this happens daily for many places. It is very unlikely that the restaurant thought that this would go national.
May 3rd, 2012 at 12:59:12 PM
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Quote: Juyemura
However, my question is can the can the restaurant legally force you to pay this gratuity? It is clearly stated and posted on the menu.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. To force you to pay it is a deceptive trade practice.
This is established case law. If it is a gratuity, then it cannot be mandatory. If it is mandatory, then it must be charged across the board, regardless of party size, otherwise it is discriminatory. And if it is mandatory, then the establishment must charge and report SALES TAX on it.
A falling knife has no handle.
May 3rd, 2012 at 1:40:27 PM
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Anywhere I've been, the auto gratuity starts at 8, so it's strange that it's 5 here. If I went out with like ten people, I wouldn't complain about service, like someone else, it's going to go down with a lot of people.
May 3rd, 2012 at 1:56:43 PM
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Quote: Mosca
This is established case law. If it is a gratuity, then it cannot be mandatory. If it is mandatory, then it must be charged across the board, regardless of party size, otherwise it is discriminatory. And if it is mandatory, then the establishment must charge and report SALES TAX on it.
Thanks for some factual legal information. This is a perfect example of a time when common sense does not coincide with the law.
May 3rd, 2012 at 1:58:29 PM
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do you mean popular opinion doesn't coincide with the law?
the law makes perfect "common sense" IMO
the law makes perfect "common sense" IMO
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
May 3rd, 2012 at 5:08:17 PM
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I wonder if the tip was calculated before tax. If so then it would be taxed on gross equalizing out to about 15%, what we normally tip anyway. But party of 5 is still wrong.
When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
May 3rd, 2012 at 5:18:54 PM
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As far as I know this issue has not yet been subjected to a trial by a competent court of record.
Obviously there are various tradeoffs between pressing charges for theft of services and enduring the resultant publicity. Rarely does a prosecutor really want to take something like this to court anyway. So some judge in a tourist area of NY dropped the charges. Fine.
What DA really wants to try this? What client really wants to pay his lawyer to fight it?
Obviously there are various tradeoffs between pressing charges for theft of services and enduring the resultant publicity. Rarely does a prosecutor really want to take something like this to court anyway. So some judge in a tourist area of NY dropped the charges. Fine.
What DA really wants to try this? What client really wants to pay his lawyer to fight it?
May 4th, 2012 at 10:02:39 AM
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Quote: DeMangoI wonder if the tip was calculated before tax. If so then it would be taxed on gross equalizing out to about 15%, what we normally tip anyway. But party of 5 is still wrong.
The tip is calculated before tax. There is no sales tax on labor, in Texas at least.
October 8th, 2012 at 7:54:45 PM
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So if restaurants can get away with charging a gratuity for a service, can they charge you if it's self serve? If a venue says you have to purchase liquor from them alone, but then says you must serve yourself can they charge a gratuity even though they provide no service? I guess it's like charging a gratuity at an all you can eat buffet. LOL
