Buying a car off Craig's List

My brother in law is looking to buy a used car in the $4,000 price range. I tried to help him so I went on Craig's List and looked at the used cars in the Las Vegas section. Two seemed to be very under-priced so I inquired about them by Email. Here are the replies I received:

Reply #1

Hi,
The car runs and look very well! I need to sell my car quickly due to the economic times. I have a baby to feed and bills to pay. The baby's father left us and contributes nothing to the baby's
support. All I have is this car and I need the money more than I need the transportation. I'm living in Glasgow,MT and I can ship it to your location. I wait your reply if you are interested.

Some info about the car: price $2,800,automatic,Engine: 6 Cyl,Drivetrain: 2WD,,131,000 miles,Exterior Color: Silver,Interior Color: Black,Fuel: Gasoline,Doors: 4.

Best regards,
Susan

Reply #2

Hi,
I am selling this car because my battalion has been sent back to Afghanistan and don't want it get old in my backyard. The price is low because I need to sell it before February 7th. It has no damage, no scratches or dents, no hidden defects. It is in immaculate condition, meticulously maintained and hasn't been involved in any accident...I do have the title, clear, under my name. The Camry has 32,000 current miles VIN# 4T1BK46K07U027216.
It is still available for sale if interested, price as stated in the ad $4,840. The car is in Lakewood WA, in case it gets sold I will take care of shipping. Let me know if you are interested, email back.Below are the car details, also link with more photos and copy of carfax report. If the link doesn't work,copy and paste it into a new browser page.
Regards!!!
2007 TOYOTA CAMRY XLE
Vehicle title: Clear
Body type: SEDAN 4DR
Engine: 3.5L V6 FI DOHC 24V
Exterior color: Silver
Transmission: Automatic FWD
Fuel type: Gasoline
Interior color: Gray
You can find more pics at:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jhjhftgfjklljklj/CAMRY#

LTC Carol Miller

------------------------------

Two heart-breaking stories and two cars I would need to have shipped here. Certainly there are people in WA and MT who need a used car, especially one that is worth twice the asking price. Something smells fishy.

I'm posting this in the advice category, but am not sure if I'm asking for it or giving it. Anyone in Vegas with a decent car in the $4,000 range -- let me know.

I recall that we have a few board members who are in Washington state. Perhaps they are close enough to pay seller #2 a visit and verify if the condition of the car matches the photos and description. If it checks out, that is a pretty fair deal.

I've purchased cars from CL (driving one now) and what you've run across is a fairly recent version of an old scam.

Once you let them know you'd like the car they send you a cheque to cover the cost of shipping and other incidentals. They tell you that once the car arrives in your neck of the woods they'll have a friend take care of the paperwork. Once you receive the cheque you notice something is a little strange... the amount of the cheque is more than is needed to ship the car. You call this person and they tell you not to worry, just cash the cheque, keep whatever you need to cover costs and send back the rest to them (usually by money order). So, thinking that everything is on the up and up, you deposit the cheque into your account, keep enough to cover the costs of shipping ect... and send the balance (usually $500-$1,000 or so) back to your contact.

Then you never hear from the contact again and a week later your bank informs you that the cheque was bad. Oops.

CL really is a great place to find a good used car as long as you're willing to put in a little effort and be diligent in confirming ownership and the condition of the car.

Quote: Wizard

Certainly there are people in WA and MT who need a used car, especially one that is worth twice the asking price. Something smells fishy.

Yup. The whole point of Craigs list is its local and you can see what you're buying. My brother just bough a nice van last month from the list, went and looked at it and drove it home. Why would anybody 'ship' a cheap vehicle, it make no sense. Sell it in the city where it sits.

Run away. Very fast.

Why does someone in Washington (using the second example) need to advertise to people in Vegas? There are plenty of people in Washington who are looking for used cars. And a 2007 Camry V6 with 37,000 stated miles for under $5k? I don't need no Kelly Blue Book to tell me that's too good to be true.

The used car market is always one of imperfect information -- the seller always knows more about the car than the buyer does. At least with local sellers you can inspect the car and try to assess the character of the seller. That said, the market is pretty efficient, and there is a general market-clearing price for a given make and model in "typical" condition, with adjustments made for cars with obvious blemishes. Any offer off this price should be heavily scrutinized.

With some work (essentially, spending the value of your time) you might find a $5000 car for $4000, but not a true $8000 car for $4000.

The cost to ship a vehicle say, 1,000 miles would be a significant percentage of the purchase price of the car. If the seller is absorbing that, AND selling the car at fire-sale prices, something is fishy. Either this is an out-and-out scam, or there's something not good about the car(s) that will only be apparent once the transaction is completed and the car is shipped.

If Person A is truly broke and desperate, then how would she get the money to ship the car? She would probably be counting on the buyer to do that for her, or for the buyer to pay in full before the car is shipped, which even if this was a completely legitimate, above-board transaction, would have about 500 things that could go wrong. Then there is the issue of titling and registration....

Person B actually sounds more likely to be legitimate, but the price is suspiciously low. Camrys are popular cars. There's no reason why she couldn't advertise it at, say, $1,000 below Blue Book and sell it locally very quickly.

Neither of these passes the "smell test"....

I've brought cars from Craigslist. I've always gotten to drive the car, and check it out first. If I can't at least do that, I don't care what the deal is, it's not going to work for me. And it shouldn't work for you.

I've had "legitimate" dealers try to sell me cars from another city via pictures and descriptions. I've told them it's pointless... we have cars out here as well, and I can buy there, or I'll make a trip if they have such good deals. They never do.

My current car is a CL car, she's a beauty and I got it for about 15% under the recommended price. I may have overlooked some good reasons why it was under (well apart from the $100 I'm going to have to pay for a new set of keys and $50 on an oil change, but I normally expect to have to do a little work on a new second hand car) but there are good bargains out there in your town.

A doctor buddy of mine bought a tractor on Craig's list, got a great deal on it. He sent some parts out for repair and got a knock on the door from the FBI who confiscated it... stolen, and now he is out $14,000.

BE CAREFULL !!!


TURN UP THE SOUND FOR THIS!!!

Craig's List (LIVE version, even better...)

Craig's List !!!


"You got a 65
Chevy Malibu,
common, baby, c'mon!!"



marty

Quote: discflicker

stolen, and now he is out $14,000.

I read somewhere that Craig's List is the new fence for stolen goods, way faster than Ebay and much safer. Priced right, you can sell a stolen snow blower or shotgun or tool set the day after you get it and its long gone by the time the cops even know its stolen.

Yar, I'm with the 'too good to be true' side. Craig's List can be used to your benefit, but best to do it on the side of caution. I've no stats to quote, and have only used it once personally, but I generally think people with whom I have no history with are out to screw me, at least in the financial sense. Assuming the 'way too cheap car, all the way across the country' is legit, buying a car sight unseen isn't the safest thing to do, even if the seller is a straight shooter. Yeah it might be structually sound, have wicked low miles, new tires and even a complimentary pair of fuzzy dice, but whoops! did I forget to mention we accidentally spilled some 'doe in heat' urine inside on our last hunting trip? Buyer beware.
On one hand you have the chance to save a few grand, with the risk of losing EVERYTHING if its hot, or having to repair unseen issues that'll raise the cost to a dealership, only without the possible warranty, lemon law protection, etc.
On the other hand, you can pay the guaranteed extra from a reputable dealer, but have peace of mind that there won't be any unknown catastrophic issues with your purchase. It's kind of a risk / reward thing, which I'm sure you're familiar with. In this case, the cross-country-Craig is a bad bet.
If your adamant about going non-dealer, for whatever reason, then use Craig. Things come and go on there like hotcakes, just wait until one is in your location i.e. close enough to drive to and check out before buying. Good luck to you, sir.

You may also be able to do some detective work on this or future purchases. Ask for the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). Anyone with moderate knowledge should cough it up immediately as there is no risk in doing so. People often ask to for this to obtain an insurance quote before purchasing. Not supplying it is more than enough reason to stop right there. If they give it, look it up. The VIN is basically a code that describes the car. Certain letters/numbers in certain areas define specific attributes to that car, such as engine size, body style, year made, whether it has power accessories or not, etc. Look up that particular VIN and see if what comes back matches the car advertised. If not, go no further. If they do all that, try CarFacts. This is where I'm not positive as things may have changed, but the last truck I bought came with a CarFacts report which contained information of a more personal nature, such as where it was originally purchased from and the location of the purchaser (who should now be the seller). If CarFacts says it was sold to some guy in Maine, yet this guy is peddling it from Washington State...you get the point. Give it a shot. If everything comes back good and all things match, then you can lessen the chances of schemes and scams and begin pondering the other 100 risks of buying sight unseen. Again, good luck to you.

Quote: Wizard

Two heart-breaking stories and two cars I would need to have shipped here. Certainly there are people in WA and MT who need a used car, especially one that is worth twice the asking price. Something smells fishy.

I'm posting this in the advice category, but am not sure if I'm asking for it or giving it. Anyone in Vegas with a decent car in the $4,000 range -- let me know.

Total sams. If a person wants to sell a car very cheap and fast there are plenty of lots they can drive to and take them. Nothing wrong with buying local on CL as opposed to looking in the classifieds. A buddy of mine almost fell for a scam like this. He was looking at a 1963 Falcon for $2400. I told him $2400 was what my dad paid for his in not as good shape in 1986! Same deal touugh, pay then I ship.

Just buy local unless you are buying a classic car, and if you are buying a classic, get a local broker who knows to help you.

I beleive the site to check a VIN is Carfax.com.

Works well. $30 per VIN, I think.

SFB

I can only think of two things to say:

1) never buy a used car without looking it over first. if possible have a mechanic you trust givve it a once over. A car that seems and drives fine may be hanging by a thread and then need repairs in the thousands.

2) If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Quote: Nareed

I can only think of two things to say:

1) never buy a used car without looking it over first. if possible have a mechanic you trust givve it a once over. A car that seems and drives fine may be hanging by a thread and then need repairs in the thousands.

2) If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

I tried to sell a car on Craig's List, and I think I was overwhelmed by the number of scam artists who were contacting me. If they weren't scam artists, they were bottom feeders who wanted it for 50% to 75% off the blue book value.

I took it to a small auto dealer, and I had a perfectly simple/professional cash transaction for more money than I expected.

Quote: pacomartin

I tried to sell a car on Craig's List, and I think I was overwhelmed by the number of scam artists who were contacting me. If they weren't scam artists, they were bottom feeders who wanted it for 50% to 75% off the blue book value.

I took it to a small auto dealer, and I had a perfectly simple/professional cash transaction for more money than I expected.

I once bought a car from a customer and long time friend of my dad's. The car seemed fine and it drove fine, but I did take it to the mechanic and he found several issues with it. Nothing major, and nothing the seller was trying to plam off on me, but it needed some work. I managed to knock down the price a few thousand pesos because of that. All done in a friendly and cordial fashion.

Last car I sold was to a dealer in trade for a new car. He gave me about the same as the used car lot offered, and a bit more than an acquaintance siad he'd pay for it.

Exhibit #1

Quote: Wizard

Reply #2

Hi,
I am selling this car because my battalion has been sent back to Afghanistan and don't want it get old in my backyard. The price is low because I need to sell it before February 7th. It has no damage, no scratches or dents, no hidden defects. It is in immaculate condition, meticulously maintained and hasn't been involved in any accident...I do have the title, clear, under my name. The Camry has 32,000 current miles VIN# 4T1BK46K07U027216.
It is still available for sale if interested, price as stated in the ad $4,840. The car is in Lakewood WA, in case it gets sold I will take care of shipping. Let me know if you are interested, email back.Below are the car details, also link with more photos and copy of carfax report. If the link doesn't work,copy and paste it into a new browser page.
Regards!!!

And Exhibit #2, from the Craigslist scams website at http://www.craigslist.org/about/scams

Quote: Craigslist Scams page

Actual scam emails sent to craigslist users:

Hi,
I am selling this car because my platoon has been sent back to Afganistan and don't want it get old in my backyard. The price is low because I need to sell it before November 16th. It has no damage, no scratches or dents, no hidden defects. It is in immaculate condition, meticulously maintained and hasn't been involved in any accident...I do have the title , clear, under my name. The Denali has 35,000 miles VIN# 1GKEK63U16J138428 .
It is still available for sale if interested, price as stated in the ad $4,300. The car is in Baltimore, MD, in case it gets sold I will take care of shipping. Let me know if you are interested, email back.
Regards!!!

Reply #2 gets bonus points for lack of originality. You've been given other good advice so I won't repeat it, but it's a good thing your suspicions were raised.

Craigslist requests that users send them details of suspected scams. The link above has details.

Nice research, MathExtremist... very interesting, indeed!

I've bought and sold a few cars on CraigsList...however, I have also LOOKED at a few cars that were complete jokes.
As with anything, just use common sense...if I were buying another car off CraigsList, I would NEVER buy one that wasn't local (although my cousin bought a 97 Corvette from SC, with no problems; aside: It was actually production #00013)

I've bought 5 cars over the years at car auctions and have always got a good car and a good deal. The trick is to look for low mileage cars with manual transmissions and crank windows. They go for far less than the exact same car with a automatic and power windows. Nobody wants a manual tranny anymore. I got a 2000 Saturn in 2004 with 45K miles on it for $2000, I kid you not. I got it for my daughter who dang well learned to drive it.

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO. Offers to ship cars are 100% fraudulent. No ifs or buts about it. Don't even think about it.

I've bought and sold a bunch of stuff off CL. It's an awesome tool and I've gotten great deals every time, although I'm usually buying small stuff under a hundred dollars. I've never had a problem dealing with people over the small stuff.

The only scam I have run in to is trying to find a house to rent a few months ago. On two ads I responded to, both advertised a much lower than average rent for what you got, (The too good to be true factor) I got a story about how he needed to leave the country for his job for a year or two and needed someone to just take care of the property. That is all good and well until they were already in Africa (red flag!!) and wanted me to wire the deposit to them and then he would FedEx me the keys. The communication also wasn't in the best English and ended it with 'God Bless'. I couldn't back away fast enough!

After some research I found the houses they were offering were on the market and the pictures on the ad were taken right from the real estate listing. I notified both CL and the Real Estate agency about it and the agency said it was becoming an increasing problem.

Just another FYI to use your common sense with dealing with things and if it sounds fishy it usually is.

Thanks for all the comments. My wife answered a third ad on her own, another unbelievable good deal, and got another sob-story involving an out of state car. I'm going to file this experience under "If it sounds too good to be true..."

Quote: Wizard

Thanks for all the comments. My wife answered a third ad on her own, another unbelievable good deal, and got another sob-story involving an out of state car. I'm going to file this experienced under "If it sounds too good to be true..."

Wow. Everyone you talked to was out of state? Were these all E-mail exchanges, or did anyone give phone numbers in their ads? Did all the phone numbers have out-of-state area codes?

I bought a car on CL several months ago, and everyone I dealt with had phone numbers in their ads (so I called everyone, never used e-mail). Most of them were local; the guy I ended up buying from had an out-of-state area code, but still was located here and had the car here.

Quote: 7outlineaway

Wow. Everyone you talked to was out of state? Were these all E-mail exchanges, or did anyone give phone numbers in their ads? Did all the phone numbers have out-of-state area codes?

They were all Email exchanges. I just had a look at some other ads, which had phone numbers. My advice is not fuss with ads if a phone number is not indicated.

Quote: Wizard

Thanks for all the comments. My wife answered a third ad on her own, another unbelievable good deal, and got another sob-story involving an out of state car. I'm going to file this experience under "If it sounds too good to be true..."

As Sky Masterson said: "One of these days in your travels, a guy is going to show you a brand-new deck of cards on which the seal is not yet broken. Then this guy is going to offer to bet you that he can make the jack of spades jump out of this brand-new deck of cards and squirt cider in your ear. But, son, do not accept this bet, because as sure as you stand there, you're going to wind up with an ear full of cider."