What is proper English -- "Me too." or "I too."?
Quote: RomesWhile admittedly I don't have a doctorate degree in biology, this is what every nutritionist, athletic trainer, personal trainer, etc, etc, has told me...
Me too (why isn't it "I too"?) It is definitely true you want to carbo-load before doing something huge. I recently did a huge Grand Canyon hike with about 20 other people and everybody was carbo-loading the day before. There shouldn't even be a debate that carbs are a great source of energy.
I will say that if you are overweight, you should try to eat carbs in moderation. But to eliminate them completely is not a healthy way to lose weight. I might add that I've known people to lose weight on Atkins or other no-carb diets, but all of them eventually put the weight back on.
In my opinion, there is no short cut to losing weight. It takes simply exercise and eating less. The best food to avoid is sugar.
Quote: WizardMe too (why isn't it "I too"?)
Because "me" is the direct object of the sentence, not the subject.
You wouldn't say, "The doctor told I," because that would be two subjects in one sentence.
You would say, "The doctor told me," and when someone says, "Me, too," they are implicitly saying "(The doctor told) me, too."
Quote: TigerWuBecause "me" is the direct object of the sentence, not the subject.
Then what is the subject of the sentence, "Me too."
Quote: WizardThen what is the subject of the sentence, "Me too."
I don't think it has one because it is a sentence fragment.
Maybe.
I'm just guessing on most of this from what I remember from grade school.
Quote: TigerWuBecause "me" is the direct object of the sentence, not the subject.
Quote: TigerWuI don't think it has one (subject) because it is a sentence fragment.
Do you see a contradiction here? Is it a sentence or not?
Me too. Or
I, as well.
Quote: TigerWuBecause "me" is the direct object of the sentence, not the subject.
You wouldn't say, "The doctor told I," because that would be two subjects in one sentence.
You would say, "The doctor told me," and when someone says, "Me, too," they are implicitly saying "(The doctor told) me, too."
But then why is “The Doctor and I” correct while “The Doctor and me” is not?
Quote: gamerfreakBut then why is “The Doctor and I” correct while “The Doctor and me” is not?
Me have no idea
First, I assume this whole thread got transferred from somewhere else that I did not read, because it seems to start in the middle of a discussion.Quote: gamerfreakBut then why is “The Doctor and I” correct while “The Doctor and me” is not?
TigerWu basically has it right, but there seems to be some confusion due to a lack of clarity as to where the "Me, too" or "I, too" is supposed to fit in the conversation. In the Wizard's first post, it seems he uses the posted comment "...nutritionist, athletic trainer, personal trainer, etc, etc, has told me... " and wants to suggest that those folks told him the same thing. In that case, the "me" in the original quote is the indirect object of the verb "told" and is correctly in the objective case. If the Wizard wishes to claim that folks told him the equivalent thing, then TigerWu is correct that the Wizard should use the objective case also as in, "(That is what that nutritionist told) me, too."
The abbreviated statement "Me, too" may be considered either a sentence fragment or a sentence with an implied subject and verb.
On the other hand, in response to gamefreak's question, it can be correct to say either "The doctor and I" or "the doctor and me" depending on the usage. "The doctor and I were surprised" vs. "That outcome surprised both the doctor and me."
The confusion on such a topic typically arises in a conversation such as this one between two children:
Susie: "I want to go to the circus."
Jane: "Me, too."
That second comment is perhaps correct if Jane is suggesting that Susie should go to Jane, too, in addition to the circus, but if Jane wants to see the clowns herself, she (most formally) should have said, "I, too (want to go to the circus)." However, in the informal parlance, "Me, too" is quite common in that context. Only very strict grammarians (or nerds on a gambling forum) would have trouble with that.
Quote: gamerfreakBut then why is “The Doctor and I” correct while “The Doctor and me” is not?
It isn't always correct. The simplest test is to remove "the doctor and" and then use whichever pronoun makes sense.
The doctor and I are going to the store. Do you want to join the doctor and me?
Quote: DocFirst, I assume this whole thread got transferred from somewhere else that I did not read, because it seems to start in the middle of a discussion.
Yes, it's a split-off from the health and weight loss thread.
Quote:The confusion on such a topic typically arises in a conversation such as this one between two children:
Susie: "I want to go to the circus."
Jane: "Me, too."
That second comment is perhaps correct if Jane is suggesting that Susie should go to Jane, too, in addition to the circus, but if Jane wants to see the clowns herself, she (most formally) should have said, "I, too (want to go to the circus)." However, in the informal parlance, "Me, too" is quite common in that context.
I, too, was going to make that point. That "me too," in this example, is a lazy way of saying, "I, too, want to go to the circus." However, since the part about the circus is implied from context, it should be abbreviated to just "I too."
In the OP, I meant to say, "I, too, have heard from nutritionists that it is dangerous to avoid all carbs." However, since what I was agreeing to was obvious from context, "I too" would seem to abide by the rules of English.
Quote:Only very strict grammarians (or nerds on a gambling forum) would have trouble with that.
Guilty as charged.
Okay, where is Paco?
And the only rule of English, as well with any other language, is that the expressions and structures that native speakers find acceptable and use regularly are "correct" English.
Quote: WizardMe too (why isn't it "I too"?) It is definitely true you want to carbo-load before doing something huge. I recently did a huge Grand Canyon hike with about 20 other people and everybody was carbo-loading the day before. There shouldn't even be a debate that carbs are a great source of energy.
I will say that if you are overweight, you should try to eat carbs in moderation. But to eliminate them completely is not a healthy way to lose weight. I might add that I've known people to lose weight on Atkins or other no-carb diets, but all of them eventually put the weight back on.
In my opinion, there is no short cut to losing weight. It takes simply exercise and eating less. The best food to avoid is sugar.
IMO...
A: "I like to go hiking."
B: "I too like to go hiking."
A: "Someone once tried to fight me."
B: "[That happened to] me too."
From what I remember.....carbo-loading should be done the day BEFORE the event, perhaps even two days before. Carbs don't digest easily and take a while to turn into sugar (I think it's sugar?) for energy.
Back in high school and especially middle school, I had to lose weight for wrestling, oftentimes as much as possible (I wrestled 160 in HS all 4 years, even though junior and senior year I weighed 180....and 130 in middle school, even though I weighed 145). State/regional/national tournaments, the weigh-ins were the night before the tournament started. Any time I ate pasta after weigh-ins, I'd be all slow and sluggish the following day. So I switched up my strategy and decided to just eat a nice prime rib after weigh-ins and I always felt great with plenty of energy the next day.
Had I been able to eat (much) food the day or two before weigh-ins, I probably would have been eating pasta on the day and two days before the event. Unfortunately, that wasn't really possible (on the plus side, pasta's nasty, so I got out of that!), so I'd be stuck eating stupid s*** food like a small strip of fish and egg whites for my meals.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!Quote: rdw4potusIt isn't always correct. The simplest test is to remove "the doctor and" and then use whichever pronoun makes sense.Quote: gamerfreakBut then why is “The Doctor and I” correct while “The Doctor and me” is not?
The doctor and I are going to the store. Do you want to join the doctor and me?
It irritates the crap out of me when someone says “Xxx and I” when “Xxx and me” is proper and correct.
I’ve even heard one guy, so afraid to use “me” or any form of it, say “I’s” when “my” is the intended word.
On a side note, before I get thrown under a bus...
If “I’s” were an acceptable word, it would be spelled without the apostrophe.
"I said it was me"
you might change that to
"I said I was the one " [rather than the awkward 'it was I']
I too feel that way at times.Quote: onenickelmiracleMe too is common sense.
Or would you perhaps say, "Me too feel that way at times"? Does that sound more "normal" to you?
How about, "I, too, feel that way, at times."? To avoid too much.Quote: DocI too feel that way at times.
Meh too. No it doesn't. Irregardless hahaha. I remember seeing on antiques roadshow an old English text book from the South, the proper English was practically Ebonics. Just shows yes the English language does change whether you want to believe it or not. English was my most difficult subject personally, but not by much. Yet what I did learn fades. I'm great catching typos though.Quote: DocI too feel that way at times.
Or would you perhaps say, "Me too feel that way at times"? Does that sound more "normal" to you?
You might get the same response the main character Joe (Not Sure) in Idiocracy got when he spoke. Was I the only one to think of that movie when this came up.Quote: WizardThe English perfectionist got back to me. He said that "I too" is grammatically correct but seems overly stiff and formal. He concedes, which he rarely does on anything, that "Me too" is an acceptable idiom.
I do realize Idiocracy probably should be in Italics, but not sure if it should be quotation marks or underlined, so I figured it's better off ignoring all options rather than choosing one and being wrong.
This is almost universal usage but grammatically "me" should be replaced with "I".Quote: rdw4potusThe doctor and I are going to the store. Do you want to join the doctor and me?
Me too is common usage but so is "I also" and proper usage is I too but who uses good grammar these days.
I recall when I said "If I were King" and the teacher said I should say "If I was King". Use of the subjunctive for a situation contrary to fact is lost on the ignorant.
Look at the discussion we had about words changing meaning.
Aggravate as 'to annoy' when its actual meaning is ' to increase or augment' and is not a synonym for annoy.
After candid camera started airing people thought candid meant hidden or sneaky or deceptive.
Pronunciation changes too:
Controller and comptroller should be pronounced exactly the same but so many people insist on mispronouncing the word that dictionaries now accept it as some sort of alternative. I dread what will happen when people see boatswain instead of bosun.
Quote: FleaStiffI recall when I said "If I were King" and the teacher said I should say "If I was King".
Sheldon seems to agree with your position, that "were" is correct.
Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFW4QNBY_yk
Don't downplay the power of "nerds on a gambling forum". Remember when I used the term "Tray Lizard" and Paco, quite correctly, challenged me on its being a recognized term much less a term for a casino's cocktail waitress. Now, I've heard that term used in Florida, New Jersey and Mississippi gambling locations. So this forum does indeed have clout.Quote: DocOnly very strict grammarians (or nerds on a gambling forum) would have trouble with that.
The teacher would write an incorrect sentence on the board, we’d figure out what was wrong with it. Then we’d write it down on a miniature white board, yada yada ya. Anyway, a sentence had the word “who” in it when it should have been “whom”. So naturally, I corrected it to “whom”. No one else in my group believed me. But there was another problem or two with the sentence. So we all agreed on those. But we couldn’t agree on the who/whom part.
I ended up writing “whom” because it was right, duh. All the group leaders raised their white board. Teacher marked everyone’s down as being correct. Except mine. Wtf?
So I asked the teacher what was wrong with it and he said something like “who is used for the subject of a sentence when whom is used for an object” or whatever those words mean. Of course, teacher was a dumbass, so I argued whom was correct.
He had a few “tests” for it. Sort of like the ol’ “if you remove the other words in the sentence, does it make more sense to say ‘I’ or ‘me’?” test. We conclusively determined I was correct and everyone else was wrong (big surprise, right?). My team was awarded a point for that round and no one else was awarded a point.
It’s weird how it’s actually kind of easier to figure out what tense to use in a different language than it is in English. Idk wtf the subjunctive of some word in English is, but I know (or knew) what it is in Spanish.
Another time, substitute teacher IIRC, let us tell jokes at end of class. Mine was “What does a Mexican fireman name his firehoses? — José (Hose A) and Hose B.” She told me to re-tell the joke as an “immigrant” or “illegal immigrant” (I don’t remember which one) instead of “Mexican”. She was one of those super-PC people before it became popular. She wasn’t too happy when I told her it isn’t too nice to assume a Mexican is an immigrant / illegal immigrant, as there are plenty of Mexicans in Mexico that aren’t immigrants, and it’s kind of racist to assume they’re all immigrants.
For once I am truly glad that all these youtube links appear on my screen as a big black box and my computer won't play videos.Quote: WizardSheldon seems to agree with your position, that "were" is correct.
I got too tired of that show particularly of Miyam Bialik who boasts of never going to a business meeting in a hotel room. I once heard two medical students being quite confused over 'affect' and 'effect'. Nearly laughed at one girl's explanation of the difference though I can not now recall what it was.
Direct link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBHN7aJGogY
Quote: FleaStiff
I recall when I said "If I were King" and the teacher said I should say "If I was King".
That one never made sense to me... It just doesn't sound right to say "If I were King," because "were" implies plurality to me.
For example, you would say, "If they were Kings," not, "if they was Kings."
Or, "If dogs were Kings," not "If dogs was Kings."
So why is it "If I were King" and not "If I was King?"
Quote: TigerWuOr, "If dogs were Kings," not "If dogs was Kings."
That reminds me of one of my favorite quotations.
Quote: Jack HandeyI hope if dogs ever take over the world, and they chose a king, they don’t just go by size, because I bet there are some chihuahuas with some good ideas.
(if I were king sounds better.)
Not queen
Not duke
Not oil (earl).
I bet everybody on here learned "were" from the Cowardly Lion.
Quote: WizI have a question on English grammar for you. Consider the following conversation:
Mary: I was molested by Harvey Weinstein.
Jane: Me too.
Could it be argued that Jane should be saying “I too.” Isn’t it an abbreviated form of “I, too, was molested by Harvey.”?
I know saying “I too” is not what someone would normally say, and it even feels wrong, but is everyone incorrect on this?
Response:
Quote: KM
So I checked with a friend who is a TRUE grammar pro and with (redacted) who has forgotten more grammar during his years at (redacted) School than I will ever learn. ;)
We all independently agree that it depends on what the missing parts of the sentence is determined to be. As (redacted) stated, "Me too. Isn't a sentence, since it doesn't have a predicate."
So, if you decide the "Me too" comes from the example you provided of , "I, too, was molested." then I, too makes sense. If it comes from someone saying, "That (referring to being molested) happened to me, too." then Me too makes sense. Most people would say the later, especially in casual conversation.
My friend, Cynthia, added this: Technically "I too" is correct in that specific sentence, in the same way "Me too" would be correct if the sentence read, "Harvey Weinstein molested me."
You could also argue, however, that the "Harvey Weinstein molested me" sentence itself is better, because it is in active tense, while the original sentence is passive.
Substituting "Harvey molested me too" alters the sentence structure and I therefore think it would be incorrect.
I don't think any woman has ever said "If you've got it, flout it"Quote: GreasyjohnI always liked "He flouted the rules." which is correct. Not, "He flaunted the rules."
Quote: WizardI heard back from my other English expert. First, let me show how I phrased the question:
Quote: Wiz
I have a question on English grammar for you. Consider the following conversation:
Mary: I was molested by Harvey Weinstein.
Jane: Me too.
Could it be argued that Jane should be saying “I too.” Isn’t it an abbreviated form of “I, too, was molested by Harvey.”?
I know saying “I too” is not what someone would normally say, and it even feels wrong, but is everyone incorrect on this?
By just saying, "Me too," it could be argued Jane is asserting that she also molested Mary.
Interesting point. I hadn’t thought of that, but you’re right.Quote: JoemanBy just saying, "Me too," it could be argued Jane is asserting that she also molested Mary.
Quote:What we have not done is to pass bill after bill after bill that was obviously unconstitutional just so we could all get on record one more time as casting another vote realizing that what was going to happen was someone would file suit the next day and the legislation would never take effect.
