Contesting speeding ticket myself free advice sought

I received a speeding ticket citation and plan on pleading not guilty and hope I get lucky. My goal is to have it dismissed when the officer doesn't show or not receiving discovery and having it dismissed for lack of evidence. I will go through the trial if forced just to piss on he whom wrote the ticket to me on my birthday.
Facts:
I was not asked to sign the citation. Didn't complain or refuse and he just tore the copy and handed it to me.

Radar was used and possibly VASCAR. I
can't tell if it's marked. Moving over limits with speed of 55/35 charged of violation of ORC 4511.21 C with remarks SP 1311. I do think this is off by at least 5-10 too high. It is a shame actually because he was parked facing the other way and drove as I saw him the opposite direction I was headed. Previous to his moving from park, there was a car in front of me who suddenly breaked making a left. It was when he was travelling the other direction he put his lights on and turned around. I don't know when he is accusing me of having done this besides the time. I will not testify.

Does anyone know how to request discovery, when and the best time?
I am thinking to ask for any notes, radar manual, copy of certification to use it, possibly dash camera copy, and a color copy of the citation. Anything else, any ideas?

He asked of if I knew my license was expired and I replied yes even though I knew it was valid on my birthday. This concerns me because IIRC it is untrue and an improper interpretation.

Court is Friday and Thursday is the only day I have to prepare anything before pleading not guilty. I know not to agree to waive time, which means the right to a speedy trial. It sickens me the language used to trick people. I've coincidentally seen the judge use clear language to warn people to he will not grant continuances for seeking counsel the day of the trial. Pretty sure I heard that when I was there the last time as an observer.

All I can do is wish you luck and a clear head on court day. I have no expertise to offer. Be professional and courteous, don't lose your temper, and if you lose your plea, don't let the points roll over onto your license; do the traffic court online.

Sorry, nickel.

I do not think I would touch that unless you know FOR SURE that you are NOT guilty within a shadow of a doubt. If it were me, I would be more concerned with getting approved for traffic school on this ticket as that will erase all. You do not have to sign the ticket nor do you always get a notice in mail about court date as that is now on back of ticket often times. It is awful that he chose to cite you on your BDAY but look at it this way, it just may have been his bday as well & he was having to work on it. Who knows why he was as he was . Do not try to get into his head, just take care of you . Get approval for traffic school & move forward past this issue. You will rise above him at that point.

Quote: beachbumbabs

All I can do is wish you luck and a clear head on court day. I have no expertise to offer. Be professional and courteous, don't lose your temper, and if you lose your plea, don't let the points roll over onto your license; do the traffic court online.

Sorry, nickel.

I think the good news is I have no points because the last ticket was 5 years ago. If there is an option online I will take it. If there was a plea bargain I might take it if offered a nonmoving violation. Thanks for the support.

I will be cool in court with no rants or sarcasm.

Straight to the judge? No clerk or magistrate? You need more time to prepare and research technicalities. I've beaten tickets because the cop who wrote the ticket wasn't the one who calibrated the radar and because a required traffic survey of the area where I was stopped wasn't done in a timely manner.

I know people that have gotten fake repair bills from a garage to show the judge and it worked. I'm not advocating this, just telling what some people have done. I have the time to challenge tickets and do it for fun as well as to keep my record clean. A few things not to do. Do not say you were keeping up with traffic. Do not say your cruise control was set and do not testify against yourself. Do ask for as many continuances as you can. Do remember that cops lie.

Quote: onenickelmiracle

It is a shame actually because he was parked facing the other way and drove as I saw him the opposite direction I was headed. Previous to his moving from park, there was a car in front of me who suddenly breaked making a left. It was when he was travelling the other direction he put his lights on and turned around.

If 5-0 is going the other way, always punch it. By the time he slows, stops, turns around, and accelerates, you should already have half a mile on him. Once out of eyesight, make the next turn. Take the next turn after that. Resume driving normally. Works 100% of the time*.

As far a a legit way to get out, I dunno. Laws vary state to state. The only one I know of where a layman has a chance is to plead not guilty, await your trial, reschedule 7-10 days before trial, and repeat rescheduling 2 or 3 times. Sometimes you get lucky and the cop don't show. Of course, the cop is paid to be there, and it's easy work for him.

The only other way I know is to plead down. If local/county, talk to the DA. If State, email them. You'll likely get parking tickets instead of points on your license**

*Doesn't work in the city or the desert

**New York State

Quote: onenickelmiracle

Radar was used and possibly VASCAR. I
can't tell if it's marked. Moving over limits with speed of 55/35 charged of violation of ORC 4511.21 C with remarks SP 1311. I do think this is off by at least 5-10 too high. It is a shame actually because he was parked facing the other way and drove as I saw him the opposite direction I was headed. Previous to his moving from park, there was a car in front of me who suddenly breaked making a left. It was when he was travelling the other direction he put his lights on and turned around. I don't know when he is accusing me of having done this besides the time. I will not testify.

It doesn't matter, they've been able to guesstimate in the State of Ohio for over a year now, they don't need to have radar anymore.

Quote:

Does anyone know how to request discovery, when and the best time?
I am thinking to ask for any notes, radar manual, copy of certification to use it, possibly dash camera copy, and a color copy of the citation. Anything else, any ideas?

He asked of if I knew my license was expired and I replied yes even though I knew it was valid on my birthday. This concerns me because IIRC it is untrue and an improper interpretation.

It's true, he's an @$$hole, but it's true. Your license expires on your birthday, it is not good through your birthday, that is the day that it is expired. I don't know when you have a hearing scheduled for, but my understanding is you could file a subpoena duces tecum which would compel him to bring all of his evidence/documents to the trial. I don't recommend having him subpoenaed, though, because your best chance to win is him not showing up.

There are really only two ways this can go: He fails to show up and you win, or he does show up and you lose.

Perhaps you should PM TeddyS and see what he thinks, I'm not a lawyer in Ohio (or anywhere else), TeddyS is a lawyer in Ohio. I think the more you request from the cop the greater the likelihood of him showing up at the hearing and you do not want him to show up because that is the only way you win.

Quote:

Court is Friday and Thursday is the only day I have to prepare anything before pleading not guilty. I know not to agree to waive time, which means the right to a speedy trial. It sickens me the language used to trick people. I've coincidentally seen the judge use clear language to warn people to he will not grant continuances for seeking counsel the day of the trial. Pretty sure I heard that when I was there the last time as an observer.

I don't know if it is common or not, but filing a Motion for Continuance in order to seek counsel on, or shortly before, the scheduled date of a trial is a stall tactic that has certainly been employed in the past. It will occasionally be granted if you can demonstrate that you have actively been seeking counsel and just cannot find anyone who wants to take the case.

Quote: 1BB

Straight to the judge? No clerk or magistrate? You need more time to prepare and research technicalities. I've beaten tickets because the cop who wrote the ticket wasn't the one who calibrated the radar and because a required traffic survey of the area where I was stopped wasn't done in a timely manner.

The problem is that a radar reading is no longer required in the State of Ohio, pursuant to a Supreme Court ruling years ago:

http://wot.motortrend.com/ohio-court-rules-no-radar-needed-to-give-speeding-tickets-fair-or-not-7848.html

The old eyeball is good enough, says the Ohio Supreme Court.

Only way you win is if the cop doesn't show up, in my opinion, if the cop testifies that he saw you speeding (even without radar to back it) how can you conclusively prove that you were not?

The eyeball radar. Unbelievable

If you had not posted a link for that Mission I might have called you a liar! What an outrage

Quote: corvetteracing

I do not think I would touch that unless you know FOR SURE that you are NOT guilty within a shadow of a doubt. If it were me, I would be more concerned with getting approved for traffic school on this ticket as that will erase all. You do not have to sign the ticket nor do you always get a notice in mail about court date as that is now on back of ticket often times. It is awful that he chose to cite you on your BDAY but look at it this way, it just may have been his bday as well & he was having to wo rk on it. Who knows why he was as he was . Do not try to get into his head, just take care of you . Get approval for traffic school & move forward past this issue. You will rise above him at that point.

I don't know if we have traffic school. Best I know judges will rule the same finding you guilty as pleading guilty. My main hope is never reaching trial and would be the same no matter what. You don't stand a chance. I did know the signature isn't required, but don't know why it's there if not. I think instead of being forgettable, I'm going to be more talkative when pulled over and try to negotiate or get him to give a warning. Handing them my information too fast destroys my opportunity and they just write it.

Quote: Mission146

The problem is that a radar reading is no longer required in the State of Ohio, pursuant to a Supreme Court ruling years ago:

http://wot.motortrend.com/ohio-court-rules-no-radar-needed-to-give-speeding-tickets-fair-or-not-7848.html

The old eyeball is good enough, says the Ohio Supreme Court.

Only way you win is if the cop doesn't show up, in my opinion, if the cop testifies that he saw you speeding (even without radar to back it) how can you conclusively prove that you were not?

I didn't catch that it was Ohio at first. You are not supposed to prove your innocence, it's the other way around but we all know how that goes.

deleted

Quote: onenickelmiracle

I don't know if we have traffic school. Best I know judges will rule the same finding you guilty as pleading guilty. My main hope is never reaching trial and would be the same no matter what. You don't stand a chance. I did know the signature isn't required, but don't know why it's there if not. I think instead of being forgettable, I'm going to be more talkative when pulled over and try to negotiate or get him to give a warning. Handing them my information too fast destroys my opportunity and they just write it.

We have traffic school:

http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/point-reduction.php

How many points can you get for exceeding the speed limit by the speed he alleges? It looks like traffic school can burn two of them.

Quote: 1BB

I didn't catch that it was Ohio at first. You are not supposed to prove your innocence, it's the other way around but we all know how that goes.

I know!

I don't understand how the ruling is in anyway Constitutional, it violates a very basic tenet of law, "Innocent until proven guilty." I wasn't speeding. How can you find a witness for that? How can you prove a negative? There are certainly isolated occurrences where an individual could prove that he wasn't speeding, but generally, it's just not possible.

Like I said, cop not showing is his only chance. Given that he will definitely lose if the cop shows up, what do you think he could plea something like this down to if he agrees to plead guilty or no contest?

Quote: corvetteracing

I do not think I would touch that unless you know FOR SURE that you are NOT guilty within a shadow of a doubt. If it were me, I would be more concerned with getting approved for traffic school on this ticket as that will erase all.

I agree. I have had coworkers try the "take it to court as the arresting officer probably won't show up" routine, and what invariably happened was:
(a) The arresting officer did show up;
(b) The defendant was found guilty;
(c) The defendant asked about traffic school;
(d) The judge told the defendant, "Er, the reason traffic school exists isn't to teach you how to drive; it's to take the load off the courts. Request denied."
(e) The point showed up on the defendant's record - and his insurance record.

Quote: 1BB

Straight to the judge? No clerk or magistrate? You need more time to prepare and research technicalities. I've beaten tickets because the cop who wrote the ticket wasn't the one who calibrated the radar and because a required traffic survey of the area where I was stopped wasn't done in a timely manner.

I know people that have gotten fake repair bills from a garage to show the judge and it worked. I'm not advocating this, just telling what some people have done. I have the time to challenge tickets and do it for fun as well as to keep my record clean. A few things not to do. Do not say you were keeping up with traffic. Do not say your cruise control was set and do not testify against yourself. Do ask for as many continuances as you can. Do remember that cops lie.

You're good. I read the entire Nolo press book 10 Years ago and swear to have not learned anything besides waive time and the right to question witnesses. I've learned a lot from your post and will reference again. I promise not to testify nor accidentally admit to anything with questions. We'll see how it plays out.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

(d) The judge told the defendant, "Er, the reason traffic school exists isn't to teach you how to drive; it's to take the load off the courts. Request denied."

I don't believe that would happen in Ohio, but I could be wrong. In the State of Ohio, you would self-enroll in a driving school and said school would either provide a certificate to the requested BMV (Bureau of Motor Vehicles) location, or you would get the certificate to take there. At that point, whatever number of points you have would be subtracted by two and you can do that once every three years and up to five total points, lifetime. I don't believe the Court actually has a say in whether or not you can do that.

Quote: Mission146

It doesn't matter, they've been able to guesstimate in the State of Ohio for over a year now, they don't need to have radar anymore.



It's true, he's an @$$hole, but it's true. Your license expires on your birthday, it is not good through your birthday, that is the day that it is expired. I don't know when you have a hearing scheduled for, but my understanding is you could file a subpoena duces tecum which would compel him to bring all of his evidence/documents to the trial. I don't recommend having him subpoenaed, though, because your best chance to win is him not showing up.


I don't know if it is common or not, but filing a Motion for Continuance in order to seek counsel on, or shortly before, the scheduled date of a trial is a stall tactic that has certainly been employed in the past. It will occasionally be granted if you can demonstrate that you have actively been seeking counsel and just cannot find anyone who wants to take the case.

Every time we drive on 70 we play a game. Count how many people are pulled over. Our record is currently set at 43 going the entire way through OH.

I was told last year that as long as you have your photo card that your good to go. I don't know if all states do the photo card though.

Quote: Face

If 5-0 is going the other way, always punch it. By the time he slows, stops, turns around, and accelerates, you should already have half a mile on him. Once out of eyesight, make the next turn. Take the next turn after that. Resume driving normally. Works 100% of the time*.

As far a a legit way to get out, I dunno. Laws vary state to state. The only one I know of where a layman has a chance is to plead not guilty, await your trial, reschedule 7-10 days before trial, and repeat rescheduling 2 or 3 times. Sometimes you get lucky and the cop don't show. Of course, the cop is paid to be there, and it's easy work for him.

The only other way I know is to plead down. If local/county, talk to the DA. If State, email them. You'll likely get parking tickets instead of points on your license**

*Doesn't work in the city or the desert

**New York State

Sounds like the Dukes. I think I've done that but it probably only worked when it was just my imagination I was noticed. Hitting my brakes was what probably got his attention. Once I was barreling at over 80 in a 65. I noticed the highway patrol car under the bridge as I went under it. I think because I didn't hit the brakes and coasted down was the only reason I wasn't pulled over. He was probably not paying attention but would have if I suddenly braked. I don't know what I am going to do about continuances yet.

Quote: Mission146

We have traffic school:

http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/point-reduction.php

How many points can you get for exceeding the speed limit by the speed he alleges? It looks like traffic school can burn two of them.

I just received the number to call to find out about the points. Traffic school and the radar I'll definitely have to read. Thanks.

You got it!

Here:

http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/point-system.php

Go to the Speeding part halfway down. It looks like it would be two points for going twenty over, so you'd work those off in the traffic school would be my guess. It'd be four points if you were going 30+ over.

If it were me, I'd just try to get the trial, and then if you see the officer in the room, you could probably have a, "Change of heart," and change your plea to guilty, because that's what will happen anyway. That could be inadvisable, though, 1BB should know or TeddyS. Maybe you should just plead guilty without all the fanfare, but my tendency would be to at least try it and hope the cop doesn't show up.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

I agree. I have had coworkers try the "take it to court as the arresting officer probably won't show up" routine, and what invariably happened was:
(a) The arresting officer did show up;
(b) The defendant was found guilty;
(c) The defendant asked about traffic school;
(d) The judge told the defendant, "Er, the reason traffic school exists isn't to teach you how to drive; it's to take the load off the courts. Request denied."
(e) The point showed up on the defendant's record - and his insurance record.

I got lucky the first time saving from a stop sign violation and seat belt. The second time I was found guilty for speeding and was of no greater consequence than paying. I really don't know the way to file motions so I didn't and used an unwinnable strategy. It's possible fighting is stupid, but I believe in it in principal because having police officers as revenue agents is wrong.

If you don't file a continuance or two, the cop will show up. They put all of their tickets on the dockett on the same day, so if he doesn't show on that one day, he risks having a bunch of tickets thrown out. But if you continue it a few times, the likelihood of his showing up diminishes.

I had a friend a few years ago that tried the "I hope he doesn't show" approach. He showed. My friend pled "guilty, your honor, but with extenuating circumstances" When the judge asked him what he meant, he praised the officer's professionalism, and said he may well of been speeding, but he was paying far more attention to the road than the spedometer, and worrying about getting home to his sick wife. The judge convicted him and gave him points, but waived the fine.

Quote: Mission146

You got it!

Here:

http://www.dmv.org/oh-ohio/point-system.php

Go to the Speeding part halfway down. It looks like it would be two points for going twenty over, so you'd work those off in the traffic school would be my guess. It'd be four points if you were going 30+ over.

If it were me, I'd just try to get the trial, and then if you see the officer in the room, you could probably have a, "Change of heart," and change your plea to guilty, because that's what will happen anyway. That could be inadvisable, though, 1BB should know or TeddyS. Maybe you should just plead guilty without all the fanfare, but my tendency would be to at least try it and hope the cop doesn't show up.

Seems traffic school is not very useful because it doesn't remove points but raises the limit needed for suspension. If I can get a plea for 39, it would be no points and assumed to not effect insurance. I last had a ticket I think in 2005, so no worries losing my license.

In PA you go to court, and if the cop shows up you plead guilty to a lesser charge, "Failure to Obey Traffic Signal or Sign". It's about 2/3 the cost, and no points, and doesn't show on your record; it counts like a parking ticket. If you google "Pennsylvania failure..." It's about the 4th or 5th autofill result. Maybe Ohio has something similar?

Some states allow the judge's decision to be appealed to a jury and that's exactly what I did once in Boston Municipal Court. If I said this is frowned upon I would be putting it mildly. I appealed a Clerk Magistrate's decision to a judge for a De Novo hearing. After being found responsible, that's the term they use instead of guilty, I opted for a jury trial. If you lose here there will be no breaks and there could even be extras added to your original offense, depending on what you say.

I wish this story went on with how I dazzled everyone in the courtroom with my legal prowess but that's not how it ended. I unceremoniously received a dismissal in the mail with no explanation. This was several years ago and I hear that they now charge non refundable fees for appeals to discourage the hapless public from exercising their rights.

For those wondering where I got my legal education it wasn't Harvard, although I have lived in Cambridge. No, it was from LA Law, The Practice, Boston Legal et al. Did I have a fool for a client?

Haven't read all these posts but want to immediately say to take this course:

You did not sign the ticket. The purpose of that is to establish your identity.

You have a constitutional right involved here. You are not required to give evidence against yourself. When the judge asks you, "were you in that car?" you should say "your honor, I'm sure you are not asking me to give evidence against myself" or "your honor, I believe it is up to the officer to give that evidence, not me"

The judge might be a stickler on paperwork. He might really dig the constitutional law. The officer screwed up. He might smile and let you off.

The judge might just be a prick and accept the evidence that the officer gives that he recognizes you, and that you gave him your driver's license.

I would sure see.

You could always try math:
http://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=4656335810518469535

Quote: MathExtremist

You could always try math:
http://www.physicscentral.com/buzz/blog/index.cfm?postid=4656335810518469535

Ha! First off, Maxwell's equations are lorentz invariant to begin with [per one comment]. The judge would pick up on that right away. Go with "not giving evidence against myself"

Quote: Face

If 5-0 is going the other way, always punch it. By the time he slows, stops, turns around, and accelerates, you should already have half a mile on him. Once out of eyesight, make the next turn. Take the next turn after that. Resume driving normally. Works 100% of the time*.

Maybe your kidding but its a great way to get your face (pun intended) shot off in todays environment.

I got away using same tactic while riding a motorcycle 35 years ago. Would never try that move today.

Knew a stockbroker that tried that move and ended up getting roughed up.... with three cops pointing guns at him. Felony charge (evading police) which was later reduced to a misdemeanor. Almost lost is stockbroker license.

Quote: treetopbuddy

Maybe your kidding...

Sort of. There's certainly a technique to it, and I suppose I should say some sort of disclaimer here, but we're all adults with free will, so I'll not waste my time.

I'll just say there's a time and a place. Certain stipulations must be met to avoid charge of evasion. I have been charged with evasion (once) in a non-jury trial where I represented myself, and totally smoked that charge. Of course, I had to weaken my defense on many of the other charges to do so, but that one was more important to attack.

I suppose I'll get flamed again, so realize most of my advise was in jest. BUT, if you absolutely CANNOT get caught (like, you have forty large in tainted bills, or a gun with pointless cosmetic feature in the People's Republic of NYS), there are situations in which evasion is insanely easy, and takes no more than 20 seconds of "spirited driving" to accomplish with little danger of evasion charges.

Quote: Face

There's certainly a technique to it

I was in a car once that was being pursued by police. This was on a parkway near DC that had exits like a freeway.

Naturally I was dropping bricks in my pants about the whole thing, but I was told to shut up, "I'm not getting a ticket". So the guy positions himself alongside another car as we approach the exit, the cop behind us. He 'stomps it', cuts across this other car and takes the exit, a maneuver the cop-car was unable to duplicate.

I hung around a different crowd in those days. [g] Whatever else the guy was, he was a good driver.

This may have been the first guy to tell me the cop has to be able to place you, as the driver, if he tries to ticket you later.

Quote: Face

Sort of. There's certainly a technique to it, and I suppose I should say some sort of disclaimer here, but we're all adults with free will, so I'll not waste my time.

I'll just say there's a time and a place. Certain stipulations must be met to avoid charge of evasion. I have been charged with evasion (once) in a non-jury trial where I represented myself, and totally smoked that charge. Of course, I had to weaken my defense on many of the other charges to do so, but that one was more important to attack.

I suppose I'll get flamed again, so realize most of my advise was in jest. BUT, if you absolutely CANNOT get caught (like, you have forty large in tainted bills, or a gun with pointless cosmetic feature in the People's Republic of NYS), there are situations in which evasion is insanely easy, and takes no more than 20 seconds of "spirited driving" to accomplish with little danger of evasion charges.

Yea, Dukes Of Hazzard was a great show with those guys always trying to get away from Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane.

Quote: 1BB

Yea, Dukes Of Hazzard was a great show with those guys always trying to get away from Sheriff Rosco P. Coltrane.

Duke of Hazzard chases, or OG chases, are unwise and mostly impossible. I've been 172mph. The fastest production car is about 265mph. The fastest land based vehicle is 760mph.

While all of these are likely faster than most patrol cars, radio travels at 670,616,629mph. You can't out run them. You can only evade them.

So you are fighting it with the ONLY hope of winning being the cop doesnt show up?

I fought one ticket for failure to wear a complete seatbelt about oh 28 yrs ago... and to try and beat it I put a bunch of time into it

First I called a lawyer and retained him to fight the ticket.... his name was entered when I requested my date in court

day of court they asked for my case to be re-scheduled as the lawyer listed was in another court case that date and would not be able to attend... dummie me spoke out without putting up my hand saying I was here and would be having it heard without my lawyer because i figured I could win it without the help of a high priced lawyer.... got told to stand and told off for speaking out in his courtroom blah blah blah... not a good way to start off with the Judge/magistrate .

Told to sit back down and my case would be heard that day...with the police officer there smiling at me figuring well you just pissed the man incharge off good luck

Cases start getting heard and most were for speeding with NOBODY winning their cases ...after about 3 hrs Judge looks at me and says my name... you have been waiting long enough lets hear your case

Prosecutor calls the police officer to the stand and asks him a few questions about my ticket... looks to the judge and says thats is all we need to hear Judge looks to me and asks if I have any questions for this officer? I said I SURE DO YOUR HONOUR (trying to get on his good side now LOL_)

Good morning Officer how are you doing this morning>? Good and you.... well I will let you know in a bit

Officer can you tell me at what time this ticket was issued? 945 pm...
Can you tell me at that time during the summer is it dark outside? .... no it was still light out

IF i produced the Windsor star from that date( had it with me) stating the sun set at 929pm that night would you disagree with that fact?....... no I would not
so in fact it must have been getting dark outside 20 minutes after the sun had set?....... it might have

OFFICER where were you when you spotted me supposely not wearing a complete seatbelt? .... on Howard Ave at a traffic light
You were stopped for a red light on Howard when i crossed the road on a green light>? Yes that is correct
So you were driving or a passenger? I was in the passengers seat
Ok so the officer driving had stopped for the red light BEHIND the stop line for that light? Yes we were behind the stop line at the light

Can you tell me how far from the intersection that stopline would be? oh maybe 5 ft
If I were to tell you I went back to that intersection and measured it and its about 10 ft back would you disagree? NO
What type of car were you in? A crown vic
How far from the front of the car to the passenger seat would you say it is 9 or 10 Ft? About that
That intersection I was driving thru is it one or two lanes for the direction of traffic I was in? Its 2
Which lane was i driving in at the time? Not sure
If I told the court today it was the INSIDE lane furthest away from you would you disagree? No
So the distance from where you sat to where I would have been seated in my car driving thru would have been about 35 ft? around that

Was i speeding thru that intersection? No
How fast would i have been going about 30 mph? about that

The car I was driving can you tell me if it has tinted windows? NO
If I were to produce a photo of that car showing it does would you disagree? No
Can you tell me what color of shirt I was wearing that night? NO ( getting pissed off now)
If i said it was a dark blue would you disagree ....no
What color was my seatbelt in that car. ,,,,,,, no idea
if i said it was a dark grey and had a picture of it (pointing to the pile of pictures i had in front of me) would you disagree,,,,, no

so as i drove my car thru this intersection at 30 mph while it was dark outside you could see i wasnt wearing a complete seatbelt through my tinted glass windows with my dark colored seatbelt on a dark colored shirt ,,,,,, when i came up to your stopped car your seatbelt was very loose across your body like it had been just placed on quickly

when you approached my car what did you do,,,,,, i asked for your drivers license insurance and ownership

did i produce them..... yes you did

did you wait for them or did i have them in hand ready for you.... i dont remember
if i said i had reached across to the glove box already and picked them out before you got to the car could that be possible..yes

I am a big guy so my seat would be far back and reaching across like that might have caused my seatbelt to loosen up... yes that possible

other than it being loose when you approached the car was it otherwise good..... yes

Nothing else for this witness your honour

Judge.... well would you like to add anything else before I give down my decision,,,,,, no I think you have heard enough



Judge.... I find reasonable doubt here and this charge is dismissed ...... others in the court still awaiting their cases well I think they now knew they hadnt done enough work to win their cases

only case that morning that was dismissed ...I had these question all written out on paper in order i wanted to ask them ...with the need to put only a reasonable doubt into the mind

Good Luck with your speeding ticket and SLOW DOWN!!!!

The problem with fighting your own ticket is that you cannot talk to anyone including the DA or the judge without incriminating yourself. This is why lawyers are necessary.

The conversation with the officer roadside was probably recorded too, so he probably established your identity as matching your drivers license at that point as well as established your guilt from your own mouth. This is also the best reason to shut up and talk as little as necessary when you are pulled over. I think that the main reason for signing the ticket is to prove that you received it (i.e. received a copy of the ticket) at the time it was given.

IMO the best thing to do is to attend traffic school and pay the ticket. Attending in person only takes an hour or so and is much easier than doing the online ones with reading and testing. Basically all you have to do is show up and occupy a seat for an hour. Be sure to be on time though, even one minute late and you're screwed usually.

As far as evidence goes, all the court usually needs is the ticket these days. Traffic court is a kangaroo court in every sense of the word. Once in a while, if you pay the fine promptly, the ticket never appears on your record (depending on the jurisdiction), but I wouldn't depend on this.

Finally, running from the cops might work sometimes, but when it doesn't you're in deep s*it - not to mention what could happen if you caused an accident or hit someone. In short, it sucks to get a ticket but why turn it into a huge project. Pay the fine and move on. Use the time you'll save to work some overtime and you'll come out ahead. Good luck.

For what it's worth, coilman, you just entered Legend status in my mind.

Coilman’s story was so epic, I have to balance it out with some horrible XD

I got nicked doing 110 in a stand up wheelie. Cop was in the bushes, I never saw him. About the time I set it back down, my cousin flew past me. Thinking he wanted to race, I floored it in pursuit. A few minutes later we slowed for town. I didn’t perform an evasion as I didn’t know we were being chased. A few minutes later, the cop caught up with us. Even though all 4 of us were doing 140, I was the only one to catch a citation.

I plead not guilty and show up to court, expecting to talk to the DA, get it reduced, pay a fine, and go home. I show up to an empty courthouse. Later, a judge enters. Shortly thereafter, the cop that nicked me enters. At this point the judge announces the trial will proceed and asks if I’m to represent myself. This is my first trial I’ve ever had and the first notice that I’m now in one. Surprise!

The cop rattles off his device’s capabilities, time of last calibration, his training on said device, blah, blah, blah. Time, place, all that jazz. He then describes the incident exactly as it happens, but includes at the end that it was his belief that I was attempting to run, and if not for entering town, he would have never caught me. He finishes, and still without a clue of what is going on, it is my turn to defend myself.

Polite and cordial as always, I describe the event as it happened. I admit to seeing a large stretch of road with not a speck of traffic and deciding to blow a wheelie. I offer that I wasn’t going the 85mph I was detected at, rather it was closer to 110. I state I did not see the officer otherwise I would have stopped immediately, and that’s why it may have appeared why I was running. But I was not, in any way, shape, or form, trying to evade his pursuit. I had my father riding with us, we were approaching a town, and despite my foolish decision, I wouldn’t jeopardize other’s lives like that.

The judge just stared at me. Did I just surprise him into mercy for taking responsibility and telling the unadulterated truth? “So”, the judge says, “You throw yourself upon the mercy of the court?” “Yes”, I reply.

Immediately, “I find you guilty of excessive speed, unsafe operation of a motor vehicle, and (everything else on the docket). Fine is $400 plus $85 court fee. 5 points will be reflected on your license” and BANG goes the gavel.

File this under evidence that pot makes you stupid XD

I don't know if this is true, and maybe somebody else already said this, but I heard a radar gun is supposed to be calibrated on a regular basis. You have the right to request proof that the gun has been calibrated in the last x days. Sometimes the officer won't have the proof on hand, or it is due for calibration. Either way, the evidence against you is tainted and you should be acquitted.

Quote: Wizard

I don't know if this is true, and maybe somebody else already said this, but I heard a radar gun is supposed to be calibrated on a regular basis. You have the right to request proof that the gun has been calibrated in the last x days. Sometimes the officer won't have the proof on hand, or it is due for calibration. Either way, the evidence against you is tainted and you should be acquitted.

Not only that gun, but get proof for all of them. If most are but a few aren't, there's your reasonable doubt.

I think most, if not all cops that have radar in their units have a tuning fork to check their radar calibration. I'm not sure if they're able to calibrate it themselves, but they can at least check it.

http://www.pbelectronics.com/radar_tuning_fork.htm

Coilman,

Your story made the whole thread worth it. Thanks for telling it! Hope it helps him somehow.

Face,

AWWWwww, geez. :X indeed. lol...

Quote: Wizard

I don't know if this is true, and maybe somebody else already said this, but I heard a radar gun is supposed to be calibrated on a regular basis. You have the right to request proof that the gun has been calibrated in the last x days. Sometimes the officer won't have the proof on hand, or it is due for calibration. Either way, the evidence against you is tainted and you should be acquitted.

That's how I prevailed in two separate cases. Here are questions to ask the cop.

1) Was the radar gun you used to check my speed calibrated THE DAY you issued the ticket? If no ask for a dismissal. If yes go to question 2.

2) Were you the officer who calibrated the gun that day? If no ask for a dismissal. If yes go to question 3.

3) Can you show the court documentation that the radar tuning forks were calibrated by a certified facility within the last several months? If no ask for a dismissal.

4) Can you confirm that this is an original document and not a copy? If no ask for a dismissal.

5) Can you show by serial number that the tested tuning forks go with the radar gun AND the vehicle that you were using when you issued the ticket? If no ask for a dismissal.

If the officer claims he did an internal check on his radar gun, ask the judge to dismiss the case because the officer did not use his tuning forks properly to check his radar gun.

Radar manuals recommend that officers test their radar guns before and after they use it to determine your speed. If the officer did not do this, he did not follow the instructions in the radar manual and you can cite this in asking for a dismissal as well.

If the tuning forks were ever dropped at any time by anyone, the may not be working properly. If all else fails ask the officer if he can prove that the forks have never been dropped by anyone. If he can't, ask for a dismissal citing that there is no way to absolutely prove the reliability or these forks.

Ask the officer to produce the Engineering and Traffic survey (aka the "Speed Survey" for the location you were ticketed at. Such a survey must exist and must be available to you if you request to see it in the courtroom. If the officer cannot produce it ask for a dismissal. It cannot be legally more than 5 years old. If it is, you know what to do.

If the officer or the judge try to reschedule your case for a day when the officer can bring the survey to court, OBJECT!! You came prepared and they should have too. You do not owe them any extra time to beat you. Insist that the judge rule now.

I used these arguments successfully 10 years ago. Please note that much could change in law and technology in 10 years. You can use this as a guideline but please do your own research. These were State of Connecticut v me but all 50 states at that time had to follow the MUTCD and may still do. The Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices is the federal bible on all U.S. laws pertaining to traffic.

Here in PA non-staties can only use VASCAR, with lines painted on the road and stopwatches. IMO this is ridiculous, there is no way an officer can hit the stopwatch, and account for parallax errors, in a manner that will give an accurate speed reading over the typical 30 yards or so between the lines.

On the other hand, in PA a ticket cannot be written for less than 10mph over the limit; in a 45 zone, an officer has to track you at 55. In a 35 zone, 45. On the interstates the general rule is you can go up to 79 in a 65, and up to 69 in a 55 (exceptions for active construction zones, keep it within 5). So if you get ticketed, you were definitely speeding. Still, plead to Failure to Obey Traffic Signal or Sign.

Oh, one thing nobody has mentioned: Be sure and get, and take with you, a copy of your driving record.

I had a cop misrepresent to the judge about what my record was. I got the book thrown at me, whereas if I had been able to produce my record, the fact that the cop tried this might have gotten me some sympathy [if caught he would have explained himself away - he had 20+ cases in court that day]. He was a piece of work, so, yes, I think he did this on purpose. I didn't even know from what he said whether or not that was suppose to be good or bad btw. A day of education for me.

Denver has those damn stop light cameras. Stop for a red
light at 4:14am and if your front tire is touching the while line outlining the
pedestrian crosswalk, get a $45 ticket.

Old trick from working midnights. Most cops will write you up for only one offense, so I always kept expired insurance card in glove box with registration. Just show the clerk proof of insurance before court date and off you go.

I once cursed a cop writing tickets in a parking lot. No witnesses. Asshole was writing them in unemployment office parking lot. But
biggest bully with a badge was the motorcycle cop in Denver who was on television. Proudly stating how he fought crime.

Most people think they have a month grace period on expired plates. But the statue actually says 30 days. So on 31st of those months with 31days, he would park on street leading to Motor Vehicle Department, or write tickets on cars parked on lot with people inside buying tags.

Quote: Buzzard

Old trick from working midnights. Most cops will write you up for only one offense, so I always kept expired insurance card in glove box with registration. Just show the clerk proof of insurance before court date and off you go.

THIS. My god, Buzz, you sure we're not related?

I always ran without a front plate. Every time I got the ol "know why I pulled you over?", I'd go right into idiot mode. "Jeepers, did my front plate fall off again?" He'd go look, come back, say no, dummy, you were speeding "but I'll cut you a break and just write the plate".

Worked every time ;)

Quote: Face

THIS. My god, Buzz, you sure we're not related?

I always ran without a front plate. Every time I got the ol "know why I pulled you over?", I'd go right into idiot mode. "Jeepers, did my front plate fall off again?" He'd go look, come back, say no, dummy, you were speeding "but I'll cut you a break and just write the plate".

Worked every time ;)

Damn, that is smart! I run without a front plate too. I never thought to try that though.

Once I drove for about an hour down the freeway with my back (and only) plate taped over (I always tape it over when I go to the track, and I forgot to remove the tape when I was putting my car back into street-mode) Luckily I did not get caught... I noticed when I stopped to get some food on the way home :)

That last car I purchased, in 2008, doesn't even have a place to mount the front license plate. While Nevada is a two-plate state, I've never even been stopped over it.

Quote: Wizard

That last car I purchased, in 2008, doesn't even have a place to mount the front license plate. While Nevada is a two-plate state, I've never even been stopped over it.

Neither does my car. I have been stopped for it once. It's a "fix-it" ticket here in CA though, which means that you just take them proof that it's been put back on and pay a $25 precessing fee or some nonsense. I just stuck it on with those 3M tab things. They work really well! Then when I got my car washed it came loose, and I didn't want to lose it, so I took it off, put it in my trunk, and have not been stopped for it since. So, I got stopped once in 7 years... not too bad.