Do you hope that God exists?
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 | 12 votes (48%) | ||
| | 13 votes (52%) |
25 members have voted
On the one hand, if there is a god, there is a chance there is an afterlife, which means there's a chance there is heaven.
On the other hand, if there is a god, there's a chance there is a hell, which means that in order for me to get to heaven, I'd probably need to pick the right religion, or have a God that doesn't care about religion, and only cares about doing good things and being a good person.
So I'm not asking whether you think God exists, I'm asking what you're rooting for.
I guess I'm leaning toward hoping he exists, because why would God want a bunch of people in hell, right?
sense. The thought of it is frightening. It
would mean the universe is ruled by whimsy
and emotion, which it obviously isn't. The god
in the OT is scary, he's emotional and not
dependable..
Suppose that an entity, which as a consequence of some action that He performed, caused us to come into being. Now supposed that our existence was a mere side effect of that action and He was actually more interested in a much larger result of that action thus not even being aware of our existence because we're far smaller than anything He can detect.
Would that entity be God?
Quote: s2dbaker
Would that entity be God?
No! He can only be god if he obsesses over every bad
thought you've ever had and stays up nights worrying
about you. Like your mommy did when you were five.
So lets look at this why. If there is a God (to my thinking there is) and you do wrong to others you will be sent to not so nice of place as if you do right by others. If you do right by others (which I know you have had to do sometime in your life and had the "good feeling" that comes with helping others) and God sees this he will send you to a very nice place!
Now lets say that there is no God. (I even hate to type those words.) What would it hurt to do right by others? Help them along in their life! It will help them and it will make you feel good!
Now I am not saying that I believe in the whole "burning bush" thing. Or that all the things in the Bible are true. (This could be another thread all by itself) I am not saying that the whole Jesus thing is all true. (Another thread) But you asked if there is a GOD!
So to my thinking "YES there is a GOD!"
Quote: MrVThe question is absurd.
How so? I'm just guessing what you'd be rooting for if you were rooting.
I've more respect for those who have the courage to maintain their convictions irrespective of fears or comforts. Those who do not weaken.
Its similar to political convictions. IRA lads sent over here due to the "heat" in Northern Ireland had more money and more sex and far more opportunities available to them here than if they returned to Ireland's then bleak economy and strictly enforced ban on condoms. If they returned to carry on the struggle, I had greater respect for them than if they accepted an "out" of comforts.
Its the same way with life long realists, as they approach death I admire those who stick with their convictions and do not turn suddenly to religion or heaven or thoughts that were alien to them most of their lives.
Quote: FleaStiffbleak economy and strictly enforced ban on condoms..
How do you enforce a ban on condoms? Do they
break into your bedroom when you're having sex?
I was surprised that not everyone voted Yes (even Nareed). I was thinking we could all agree that, even if you looked at it as only a hope, the idea that there is something more than this life is very intriguing to say the least.
Quote: FrGambleGod and the promise of life eternal in Heaven is what is holding us all together right now. With a belief in God things like this hardly make sense, without God life wouldn't make any sense at all.
Speak for yourself, priest.
Death is a necessary part of life; it makes perfect sense.
Untimely death can produce sorrow, but it is no less natural.
Throw down your crutch, open your eyes and SEE clearly for the first time.
"It was as if that great rush of anger had washed me clean, emptied me of hope, and, gazing up at the dark sky spangled with its signs and stars, for the first time, the first, I laid my heart open to the benign indifference of the universe." --- Camus
Quote: FinsRuleHow so? I'm just guessing what you'd be rooting for if you were rooting.
The question is absurd because there is no god.
End of story.
Quote: MrVopen your eyes and SEE clearly for the first time.
Don't you wonder if we really can SEE clearly enough to see everything. Do you really think there is nothing supernatural about this world we live in? Why would we think that the sky spangled with its signs and stars means that the universe is indifferent? When I gaze out at the stars I am filled with hope that there is so much more out there than what I can SEE with my eyes or comprehend with my mind and that there is more to this life than just death.
Quote: FrGamblethe idea that there is something more than this life is very intriguing to say the least.
We discover new things all the time, but we haven't
discovered god yet. If he's hiding, he's doing a good
job. His existence isn't obvious to anybody except to
those who need a god as an excuse for living.
There is no Santa Claus, but people still throw lighted plastic Santii all over their lawns in December. Some people route for the Mets even though they don't really exist either. Yes, there are things that are completely absurd but I can see where a purpose can be served by hoping for things to be true. In this case, I voted No, but I do see where the question is valid.Quote: MrVThe question is absurd because there is no god.
End of story.
Quote: FrGambleThis evening I am preparing for a funeral tommorrow of an 18 year old girl. I will say that myself, her family, her friends, and the girl herself are all sure hoping there is a God. God and the promise of life eternal in Heaven is what is holding us all together right now. With a belief in God things like this hardly make sense, without God life wouldn't make any sense at all.
There is no axiomatic reason life has to "make sense". It'd be nice if it did, but it'd also be nice if my best friend hadn't died before her time. It being nice, doesn't make it any more right or wrong.
Quote:I was surprised that not everyone voted Yes (even Nareed). I was thinking we could all agree that, even if you looked at it as only a hope, the idea that there is something more than this life is very intriguing to say the least.
I voted No under the assumption of the Judeo-Christian God. I don't think he's a god I'd like to exist (and me liking him to exist or not makes no difference to his existance either). Give me the choice on the non-intecessionary God, the deistic, unknowable creator whose, and I while I don't "hope" it exists, I wouldn't actively hope not... I think I could get behind a Loki or His Noodley appendage. I do hope Azathoth and Cthulhu don't exist.
Just follow his rules and you'd have it made.
Unfortunately, life is not quite that easy. There
are no guarantees of anything, in spite of what
the religious hucksters are trying to sell.
Beer volcano and stripper factory heaven sounds awesome! But as for Azathoth and Cthulhu, bad press, they're really just big old teddybears.Quote: thecesspitI think I could get behind a Loki or His Noodley appendage. I do hope Azathoth and Cthulhu don't exist.
i love the idea of all of these judgmental, hypocritical, christians -in-name-only wasting their lives believing in a fairy tale
Quote: FrGambleWhy would we think that the sky spangled with its signs and stars means that the universe is indifferent?
Because whether you live or die, succeed or fail, makes not one whit of difference to the universe.
Oh sure, we're all important to somebody, but not to the universe: it is not some vast, corporeal being with a Divine Plan for us: that is childish nonsense, the Wishful Thinking of the Desperate and the Deluded.
It is a vast, mindless collection of matter and energy, nothing more: and that ain't a bad thing.
Prescription only item with each Rx investigated. Importation of condoms punished more heavily than importation of heroin.Quote: EvenBobHow do you enforce a ban on condoms? Do they break into your bedroom when you're having sex?
Quote: FrGambleI was surprised that not everyone voted Yes (even Nareed).
You should know better by now :)
Quote:I was thinking we could all agree that, even if you looked at it as only a hope, the idea that there is something more than this life is very intriguing to say the least.
Oh, the idea is intriguing. So is time travel, teleportation, reincarnation, sorcery, faster-than-light travel, and other things.
Quote: WongBoi am fairly certain there is no God, and i truly hope that there isn't one.
i love the idea of all of these judgmental, hypocritical, christians -in-name-only wasting their lives believing in a fairy tale
I wonder what God does exactly when all those Right Way bettors are praying and all those Wrong Way bettors are also praying? We always invoke God as being on the winner's side in a battle.
The founder of the American Realists movement become violently sick each December with the "Christmas Spirit" nonsense two weeks each year. He just couldn't tolerate the Santa Claus nonsense. And as his time drew to an end, he had the courage to maintain his views rather than seek the solace of his fears.
Denis Diderot
An afterlife would be nice. Right?
Also, eternal life sounds very unappealing, so hopefully that is not the case.
Quote: s2dbakerWhat if God was unaware that we existed?
Suppose that an entity, which as a consequence of some action that He performed, caused us to come into being. Now supposed that our existence was a mere side effect of that action and He was actually more interested in a much larger result of that action thus not even being aware of our existence because we're far smaller than anything He can detect.
Would that entity be God?
Wasn't there a Simpsons episode on this?
Quote: JBAlso, eternal life sounds very unappealing, so hopefully that is not the case.
I freely admit that I'm terrified of non-existence, which absent any afterlife, means that logically I'm terrified of death.
People have made the above argument to me, and I don't get it. What sounds so bad about eternal life? I'd much rather be around forever, than face the prospect of not existing at some point in the future. It just bums me out, you know?
This is assuming that "eternal life" doesn't mean some kind of medically induced state where my body is still technically "alive" but life has failed to actually have any merits. I'm talking about a hypothetical world where I would live forever on earth somehow, or live forever somewhere else.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI freely admit that I'm terrified of non-existence, which absent any afterlife, means that logically I'm terrified of death.
People have made the above argument to me, and I don't get it. What sounds so bad about eternal life? I'd much rather be around forever, than face the prospect of not existing at some point in the future. It just bums me out, you know?
This is assuming that "eternal life" doesn't mean some kind of medically induced state where my body is still technically "alive" but life has failed to actually have any merits. I'm talking about a hypothetical world where I would live forever on earth somehow, or live forever somewhere else.
Given the choice, I would prefer non-existence/nothingness versus living forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and so on, aging the entire time. And if nothingness is in fact an option, then I hope the transition between...this...and that is as quick and painless as possible.
Quote: JBAnd if nothingness is in fact an option, then I hope the transition between...this...and that is as quick and painless as possible.
“I’m not afraid to die. I just don’t want to be there when it happens” (Woody Allen)
Quote: JBGiven the choice, I would prefer non-existence/nothingness versus living forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and so on, aging the entire time. And if nothingness is in fact an option, then I hope the transition between...this...and that is as quick and painless as possible.
One of the Hitchhiker's Guide books touches on the boredom that would become manifested via immortality....Arthur Dent? You're a jerk.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI freely admit that I'm terrified of non-existence,
Non-existence is quite impossible. How come nobody
ever worries about where they were before they were
born? Isn't that 'non-existence'? Doesn't seem very
frightening does it. Thats because we instinctively
know we came from 'somewhere' or are 'something'.
Quote: progrockerOne of the Hitchhiker's Guide books touches on the boredom that would become manifested via immortality
Several musicians seem to be aware of it:
"All's I gots is time, got no reason, just a rhyme" Stone Temple Pilots
"This was never meant to last, I wish it wasn't so" Linkin Park
"Ohhh, I... ohhhhhhhhhhhhh... I'm still alive..." Pearl Jam
"We're never gonna survive, unless we are a little crazy" Seal
Quote: EvenBobNon-existence is quite impossible. How come nobody
ever worries about where they were before they were
born? Isn't that 'non-existence'? Doesn't seem very
frightening does it. Thats because we instinctively
know we came from 'somewhere' or are 'something'.
You been reading Ralph Waldo Emerson? Very transcendental of you...even when we cease to live we still continue to BE. Good stuff.
Quote: EvenBobNon-existence is quite impossible. How come nobody
ever worries about where they were before they were
born? Isn't that 'non-existence'? Doesn't seem very
frightening does it. Thats because we instinctively
know we came from 'somewhere' or are 'something'.
My girlfriend made this argument a while back, but I don't get it. Yes, I'm not afraid of my own non-existence before I was alive, because it's in the past. I am afraid of my own non-existence after I die...because I'm here right now.
Quote: JBGiven the choice, I would prefer non-existence/nothingness versus living forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever and so on, aging the entire time. And if nothingness is in fact an option, then I hope the transition between...this...and that is as quick and painless as possible.
I think the bold is the sticking point. I agree that it would suck to live forever and keep getting physically older.
Quote: AcesAndEightsI'm not afraid of my own non-existence before I was alive
You can't get something from nothing, its impossible.
You were somewhere before you inhabited your
body, you were never non existent. Why fear it now.
Conciousness is an emergent phenomena, not a Platonic core. I did indeed exist, as component atoms of different items, and in the future I'll be a bunch of different molecules and atoms in a different set of places. MY Concious, thinking, feeling self was created and can disappear, just like my car was built, and will one day be so much recycled metal, rust and plastics. It's no longer a car, but the parts still exist.
Quote: thecesspitMY Concious, thinking, feeling self was created and can disappear, just like my car was built,
The spirit that makes you alive cannot be created
artificially, it exists outside of us. Some people call
it god.
Quote: EvenBobThe spirit that makes you alive cannot be created
artificially, it exists outside of us. Some people call
it god.
Then those people delude themselves.
It is a natural process, nothing more; no supernatural or other-worldly elements involved.
Consciousness / self-awareness is but one interesting fork on the evolutionary road.
Quote: MrV
It is a natural process, nothing more; no supernatural or other-worldly elements involved.
I didn't say it was supernatural. Obviously its a
an intricate part of nature, which makes it the
opposite of supernatural.
Quote: EvenBobThe spirit that makes you alive cannot be created
artificially, it exists outside of us. Some people call
it god.
We'll see if that's true or not.
I don't believe Hard, Conscious AI is around the corner, but I do believe it is possible. Besides, this wouldn't disprove the Dualist position anyways.
That word seems akin to "supernatural."
It implies something other than a purely natural process.
Quote: khoyle2001I think there is a god! Also, a vast majority of the world believes in a ultimate being, a deity of some sort.
So lets look at this why. If there is a God (to my thinking there is) and you do wrong to others you will be sent to not so nice of place as if you do right by others. If you do right by others (which I know you have had to do sometime in your life and had the "good feeling" that comes with helping others) and God sees this he will send you to a very nice place!
Now lets say that there is no God. (I even hate to type those words.) What would it hurt to do right by others? Help them along in their life! It will help them and it will make you feel good!
Interesting postmodern reformulation of Pascal's Wager. :)
