Freedom of Speech and anti-Militant Islam

Dutch politician Geert Wilders is the most threatened politician in the Netherlands and is under constant protection. Geert is leader of the Party for Freedom (Partij voor de Vrijheid – PVV), the third-largest political party in the Netherlands. He is the Parliamentary group leader of his party in the Dutch House of Representatives.

Wilders is best known for his criticism of Islam, summing up his views by saying, "I don't hate Muslims, I hate Islam".
Raised a Roman Catholic, Wilders left the church at his coming of age. He is now an agnostic, but he sides with many Christian leaders.

Wilders has campaigned to stop what he views as the "Islamisation of the Netherlands". He compares the Quran with Mein Kampf and has campaigned to have the book banned in the Netherlands. He advocates ending immigration from Muslim countries, and supports banning the construction of new mosques. He believes that the Quran, Hadith and Islam support the actions of violent extremism in Islam. His video shows acts of terrorism (like 9-11, bombing of trains in Spain, etc.)

Wilders was a speaker at the Facing Jihad Conference held in Jerusalem in 2008, which discussed the dangers of jihad, and has called for a hard line against what he called the "street terror" exerted by minorities in Dutch cities.

His controversial 2008 film about his views on Islam, Fitna, received international attention. He has been described in the media as populist and labeled far-right, though this is disputed by other observers. Wilders, who has refused to align himself with other European far-right leaders such as Jean-Marie Le Pen and Jörg Haider, views himself as a right-wing liberal and has expressed concern of being "linked with the wrong rightist fascist groups."

Fitna part 1/4 English Geert Wilders (anti-militant Islam film on youtube) The film consists primarily of recordings of Muslims saying things that support the claim of Wilders.


Wilders was banned from entering the United Kingdom between 12 February 2009 and 13 October 2009 by the Labour government, the Home Office saying his presence would be a "threat to one of the fundamental interests of society".

The ban was overturned after Wilders appealed and he visited the UK in October 2009, and again in March 2010 to show his film.

In January 2009, the Amsterdam Court of Appeal ordered Wilders' prosecution for "incitement to hatred and discrimination". Wilders was acquitted of these charges on 23 June 2011.

I do not believe that Wilder's has ever been to the United States, nor has he tried to visit. What if he did?

Clearly, if he does come to the USA, he is a member of the parliament of a friendly nation. Since it is presumed that his presence may attract an assassin, there is the question of how much security that our government should provide.

My view is that he is somewhere in between idiot and truth teller(neutral), and should be allowed to enter. We protect the free speech of sometimes violent hate groups, so why not his, which takes a more diplomatic approach. He's obviously no Anders Behring Breivik...but I do think security needs to come out of his pocket, not ours, for anything beyond what they would normally extend to a visiting member of a foreign parliament.

The Socialist countries in Europe have their
heads up their butts when it comes to Islam.
They let all these people in, let them do what
they want, and finally notice when its too late.
They'll play hell getting rid of them now, I
think its way too late.

I think the choices in the poll are somewhat biased.
I do not necessarily agree with him but I do not think he is an idiot.
there should have been a choice somewhere between "he speaks the truth" and "he is an idiot".
I support the right of Iran's president, Ahmadinejad, to travel to the US
and I support the right of Wilders to do so as well.

Quote: EvenBob

The Socialist countries in Europe have their
heads up their butts when it comes to Islam.

Canada is making mis-steps as well IMO

Quote: WongBo

I think the choices in the poll are somewhat biased. I do not necessarily agree with him but I do not think he is an idiot. there should have been a choice somewhere between "he speaks the truth" and "he is an idiot". I support the right of Iran's president, Ahmadinejad, to travel to the US and I support the right of Wilders to do so as well.

I stand corrected. I did omit something on the scale.

Geert Wilders has stated that the Netherlands should have "administrative detention" which he based on Israeli law. It would allow courts to determine if people are dangerous (based on Secret Service evaluation) and they should be detained an expelled. They should not be protected by "rule of law (his own words)".

He wants to see the Christian and Jewish culture to be the dominant culture, and he supports "banning the burka" in the Netherlands.


He does not support making Islam illegal, or the wholesale deportation of all Muslims.


I may have made a mistake. There is an interview of Wilders on Glen Beck (09/03/2010), so he has been on a visit to the USA.

Quote: EvenBob

The Socialist countries in Europe have their
heads up their butts when it comes to Islam.
They let all these people in, let them do what
they want, and finally notice when its too late.
They'll play hell getting rid of them now, I
think its way too late.

It has become sort-of "tolerance run wild." I agree it is too late. Demographically most of native-europe is dying off. Having never wanted to have kids I admit I would be part of the problem, but I am suprised so many do not have kids. I kind of wonder what happened after the early 1970s that people of European decent, in Europe and worldwide, had such a collapse in birthrate.

The second problem is that too many people and societies since the late 1970s have chosen to stop creating wealth and would just rather live off wealth already created. Was some comfort-level reached?

the number one predictor of a falling birthrate is education of women.
The higher the level of education achieved, the lower the birthrate.

Quote: AZDuffman

The second problem is that too many people and societies since the late 1970s have chosen to stop creating wealth and would just rather live off wealth already created. Was some comfort-level reached?

Its the entitlement mentality. Its an experiment thats
bound for failure, like Socialism in general.

Quote: AZDuffman

Demographically most of native-europe is dying off. Having never wanted to have kids I admit I would be part of the problem, but I am suprised so many do not have kids. I kind of wonder what happened after the early 1970s that people of European decent, in Europe and worldwide, had such a collapse in birthrate.

Dying-off may be somewhat strong of a word. Eastern Europe (including Russia) peaked about 20 years ago, and has lost 7% of their population since then, but they will still be around for centuries. Europe as a whole will peak next year. France and the United Kingdom still have fertility rates between 1.9 and 2.0, although that is primarily because of immigrants.

There are a number of places outside of Europe that have sub-replacement fertility rates. As a matter of fact about half the world lives in a place with a sub-replacement fertility rate.

It's a consequence of urbanization, education, modern economics, etc.


1.99 Bahamas, The
1.97 Bermuda
1.96 Netherlands Antilles
1.95 Suriname
1.93 Costa Rica
1.92 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines
1.91 Seychelles
1.91 Vietnam
1.89 Uruguay
1.89 Uzbekistan
1.88 Bahrain
1.88 Chile
1.88 Iran
1.87 Cayman Islands
1.87 French Polynesia
1.87 Kazakhstan
1.86 Brunei
1.84 Aruba
1.82 Saint Martin
1.81 Maldives
1.81 Saint Lucia
1.81 Wallis and Futuna
1.80 Virgin Islands, U.S.
1.79 Mauritius
1.79 Saint Kitts and Nevis
1.78 Australia
1.77 Lebanon
1.75 Algeria
1.75 Anguilla
1.73 Palau
1.72 Trinidad and Tobago
1.71 Virgin Islands, British
1.70 Turks and Caicos Islands
1.68 Barbados
1.66 Thailand
1.63 Saint Barthelemy
1.62 Puerto Rico
1.58 Canada
1.57 Saint Helena
1.55 Saint Pierre and Miquelon
1.54 China
1.54 Guernsey
1.45 Georgia
1.44 Cuba
1.37 Armenia
1.23 Korea, South
1.21 Japan
1.15 Taiwan
1.11 Singapore
1.07 Hong Kong
0.92 Macau

Japan is 1.21? There are no immigrants in Japan, they're
a dying people if they don't do something about it.

First off, does the US ban anyone from entering (not immigrating) based on "hate speech" as defined by Western Europe and Canada. In many cases there would definitely be a blurry line... like if they had relations to an organization on the List of Foreign Terrorist Organizations but (as mentioned elsewhere) an MP from a friendly country whose sole "offense" comes from his speech? If the US has done this please just give me a couple of examples.

As much as some Americans bitch and moan about illegal immigration from Mexico (that includes me), Hispanics are overwhelmingly Catholic and have a high probability of someday assimilating into the general US culture. On the other hand, I never see muslims doing the same in Europe - they've already started demanding sharia and received it at least in the UK.

Quote: EvenBob

They let all these people in, let them do what
they want, and finally notice when its too late.

Funny statement of the day. When you say "Let them in" I assume you mean colonizing the Arab nations and dragging them back as cheap labor over the last two centuries. Reap what you sow. If you want to keep your culture "pure" stop dragging people back to do the work you don't want to.

Quote: EvenBob

Japan is 1.21? There are no immigrants in Japan, they're
a dying people if they don't do something about it.

Japan peaked in 2008, and has dropped 0.3% since then. They are expected to lose 16% by the year 2050.

Russia is much worse. They peaked in 1995 and have already lost 7%. They are expected to lose another 20% by the year 2050.

In 1950 the only countries bigger than Russia and Japan were China, India, and USA (USA was smaller than the Soviet Union). Today Russia and Japan are 9th and 10th ; and will drop to 16th and 17th by the year 2050.

Hungary was the first nation to peak via birth control (without war, massive disease or famine) about 30 years ago, but their drop in population has been much less rapid. They have only lost 7% in 30 years.

I wonder if a country like Russia at some point soon will have a baby boom.

One modern factor seldom discussed is the distribution of status. Oddly society today seems to expect young men to start families while not seeing to it those men are not dysfunctional.

I have noticed this without much understanding it. What is happening in Japan however I think is quite instructive. "hikikomori"