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Face
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Face
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February 19th, 2014 at 11:31:20 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

It's a miracle for sure. But I give credit to the man that boy became, not any GOD !



Thanks, Buzz =)

Miracles just seem like interpretation to me. Much like the smell of rotting fish makes some gag, yet it fills me with peace. And just as maybe DeMango sees a miracle in Kravitz's father, I see the effects of a dying brain.

Fish are neither disgusting nor soothing. But thinking makes it so =)
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Face
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Face
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February 19th, 2014 at 11:32:53 AM permalink
Quote: Buzzard

' so why cast all your eggs into one or another uncertain basket?"

Should not the last word in that sentence start with the letter C ?



There are no uncertain caskets. There's one for all of us, and into them we all shall go. All of us too soon, all of us before we're ready. Time's ticking; make the most of yours =)
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kubikulann
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February 20th, 2014 at 4:28:33 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I seriously consider myself to be agnostic in acknowledging the existence of a Higher Power/God without accepting the tenets of any organized religion. And I know quite a few people who are of a similar mind.

This is actually deism (if you just say "some Superior Being(s)") or theism (if you go into "one creator God"). Agnosticism is more like scepticism: I don't know so I don't acknowledge anything.

In practical terms, an agnostic would take life like an atheist, while a theist would do it like a Christian/Jew/Muslim/whatever. A deist, I don't know. May as well be animist or pantheist.
Reperiet qui quaesiverit
Mosca
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February 20th, 2014 at 5:34:03 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Like a lost boy falling victim to every drug imaginable, broke, strung out, nearly homeless, totally helpless, on the cusp of death, somehow finding his way back to become an upstanding individual, loving father, and model employee? Like that type of changed life?



I did that without a god.
NO KILL I
boymimbo
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February 20th, 2014 at 6:22:31 AM permalink
Having faith in the Lord and believing in the vision that Jesus died on the cross, was resurrected, and died for our eternal foregiveness of sins is really the central tenet of Christianity.

Being a Christian will not prevent you from dying in a car accident driving down I-95.
Being a Christian will not prevent your daughter from getting molested by a neighbor's friend.
Being a Christian will not make you financially rich, poor, smarter, or dumber.

So, all of the crap about the preacher dying by snakebite, by the sins of priests, is all a bunch of just that: crap. We believe through faith alone. We are saved through God's grace alone. We are all sinners.

Being a Christian will change how you live your life, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you treat others, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you react to events in life and around the world, because you have the strength of God behind you.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
beachbumbabs
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February 20th, 2014 at 6:46:59 AM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Having faith in the Lord and believing in the vision that Jesus died on the cross, was resurrected, and died for our eternal foregiveness of sins is really the central tenet of Christianity.

Being a Christian will not prevent you from dying in a car accident driving down I-95.
Being a Christian will not prevent your daughter from getting molested by a neighbor's friend.
Being a Christian will not make you financially rich, poor, smarter, or dumber.

So, all of the crap about the preacher dying by snakebite, by the sins of priests, is all a bunch of just that: crap. We believe through faith alone. We are saved through God's grace alone. We are all sinners.

Being a Christian will change how you live your life, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you treat others, using selected lessons from the bible.
Being a Christian will change how you react to events in life and around the world, because you have the strength of God behind you.



In the sense that Christ was an extremely wise teacher and His guidance has led me in many ways through my life, I am a Christian, using selected lessons from the Bible, as you suggest. I am also a Buddhist, a Confucian, and even in a few things, a Mohammedan and Jewish; there is a lot of value in the Sacred writings of all of those. But adhering to any sect, lock stock and barrel, nope. Not gonna happen.

Kubli is probably more correct in calling my personal philosophy Deism. However, part of my skepticism about organized religion is a healthy respect for the possibility that there is no Higher Power. I believe there is, but haven't ruled out the idea that we are intelligent ants and just about as important in the whole biosphere of possibilities, and that everything just HAPPENED from among all random combinations of base matter into a carbon-oxygen rich environment over untold amounts of time. As an eternal student, I don't expect to know in this life. But the journey's a blast.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
kubikulann
kubikulann
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February 20th, 2014 at 6:53:20 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

As an eternal student, I don't expect to know in this life. But the journey's a blast.

Funny you'd write that.
Actually, when a kid, the main reason I had for hoping in afterlife was the horrible idea that there could be questions that would remain forever unanswered. So, my image of Paradise was, essentially, that we'd get all the answers by then.

Now I am wiser, and must accept that death is the end and those answers will never be coming.

So, let's enjoy life as it lasts, by making it the journey to a maximum of answers.

If morons want to believe absurdities because they can't face reality, well... there is no law against being a moron, isn't it?
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Face
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Face
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February 20th, 2014 at 7:24:55 AM permalink
Quote: Mosca

I did that without a god.



As did I. Unless God looks over his lost children, too, which I'm sure He does, so...

J/K, congrats to us both =)

Quote: kubikulann


If morons want to believe absurdities because they can't face reality, well... there is no law against being a moron, isn't it?



There's no need for the insults. There are many who preach or follow the word of Christ here. Few if any are morons nor do they deserve such a jab.

Are there moronic religious folk? Yup, sure as night doth follow day. There's Christian morons, Hindi morons, Sihk morons...and, of course, no shortage of atheist and agnostic morons. What view you hold is immaterial. If a Christian is a moron, converting to atheism does not fix his moronicity ;)

The older I get, the more I feel religion should be spared the hate toward it. Yes, there are examples beyond count of atrocities done "in the name of religion". But those weren't done by religion, those were done by weak people. I find it harder and harder to blame religion for Westboro brand hatred. I imagine if religion was stricken from memory, those same, hate filled people would find another reason to hate. Religion is the excuse, not the cause (IMO). I suppose you could say my feelings toward religion are starting to align with my pro-gun stance.

Just as the fact there was no fox and were no grapes doesn't prevent me from learning a lesson from Aesop's Fables, so too does the fact that I think God does not exist prevent me from learning lessons contained in scripture. To shun it all is to live in a darker world.
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MathExtremist
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February 20th, 2014 at 8:19:09 AM permalink
Quote: Face

Agnostics do not believe one way or another whether a god or gods exists. However, having that stance can certainly be held strongly.

Agnostics strike me as those "on the fence". That's not a put down, rather, it seems a very logical position to hold. The evidence both for and against a god or gods can certainly look shaky at times, so why cast all your eggs into one or another uncertain basket? You can very strongly say "I don't know" and wish to not be pushed one way or the other.


Agnosticism comes in a range of flavors. One is simply "I don't know whether the Judeo-Christian God exists" and another is "I don't know whether any deity exists," noting that there is a big distinction between any general deity and the biblical Lord. For example, the FSM is very clearly not the biblical Lord, and an agnostic would point out the seeming contradiction in denying the former but affirming the latter. In any event, in both cases a weaker agnostic would believe the evidence is simply not there for the evaluation, but should evidence arise, it could be evaluated.

A stronger form of agnosticism is the theory that not only is the question of God (or any other deity) unknown but it is unknowable/untestable. In other words, no evidence for a deity is possible. It's a subtle distinction but it leads to a pretty big difference in philosophy.
"In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice." -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
boymimbo
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February 20th, 2014 at 2:07:45 PM permalink
Quote: Face

As did I. Unless God looks over his lost children, too, which I'm sure He does, so...

There's no need for the insults. There are many who preach or follow the word of Christ here. Few if any are morons nor do they deserve such a jab.

Are there moronic religious folk? Yup, sure as night doth follow day. There's Christian morons, Hindi morons, Sihk morons...and, of course, no shortage of atheist and agnostic morons. What view you hold is immaterial. If a Christian is a moron, converting to atheism does not fix his moronicity ;)

The older I get, the more I feel religion should be spared the hate toward it. Yes, there are examples beyond count of atrocities done "in the name of religion". But those weren't done by religion, those were done by weak people. I find it harder and harder to blame religion for Westboro brand hatred. I imagine if religion was stricken from memory, those same, hate filled people would find another reason to hate. Religion is the excuse, not the cause (IMO). I suppose you could say my feelings toward religion are starting to align with my pro-gun stance.

Just as the fact there was no fox and were no grapes doesn't prevent me from learning a lesson from Aesop's Fables, so too does the fact that I think God does not exist prevent me from learning lessons contained in scripture. To shun it all is to live in a darker world.



Thank you. Yes, I am a Christian. I was raised as such and as I went through University and got my degree in Astronomy and Physics, I took a more agnostic view. I found it difficult to reconcile the existence of a Christian God with what I've learned through science. Certainly there are stories in the bible that don't confirm with the scientific or archaeological record.

I've been going to church now every Sunday (when I am in town) for the past eight months after being absent for a good 30+ years. Spiritually, it's done a great deal of good for me in ways that are unexplainable. My pastor is an amazing fellow. From my perspective, I think happiness on earth is linked strongly to a strong spritual life, be it Christianity, other religions, Mother Earth or Karma.

When I sit in church, I think sometimes that everything the people are doing might be for naught. But it makes you feel better. You're part of a community of like-minded people. The church I go to offers hope, encourages charity and mindfulness -- nothing wrong with those things. These things can be achieved as well via friendship and meditation as well.

I'm not going to look down on the athiests and agnostics on this site. However, I do encourage everyone to experience some spirituality in their life, perhaps a realization that there are things that you can do to feel better, completely on your own, without having to rely on money, friends sex, alcohol, surroundings, or drugs to achieve that feeling. Start with meditation and mindfulness.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!

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