Celebrate Religion here
Quote: FrGambleI always though it would help to have some rational reason behind JW's teaching against blood transfusions, but I have never heard a good one.
Now you know how I feel about religion in general.
Quote: FrGambleI always though it would help to have some rational reason behind JW's teaching against blood transfusions, but I have never heard a good one.
It's because they conflate transfusion with consumption of blood, which was forbidden under all circumstances by the Torah.
Then you are a hypocrite.Quote: FrGambleI am not okay with that at all.
He can't afford to pay for it.Quote: FrGambleHe should get a blood transfusion to save his life, take him to any Catholic or public hospital and he will be able to receive one.
or in the case of JWs, blood transfusions. It is the same, exactly the same.Quote: FrGambleI am also not okay with you seeming to equate blood transfusions with contraceptives. I see a big difference between blood transfusions and artificial birth control on many levels. The Church does not believe in contraceptions, sterilizations, or abortificiants
You're not a woman, are you? Neither am I but one thing I do know is that you can only get birth control pills legally through a prescription. Three months supply costs over $100 not including the doctor's office visit. For me, that's no big deal, for a single young woman working as a waitress at or near the minimum wage, that's a big deal! Especially now that the GOP has decided to "get rid of" Planned Parenthood.Quote: FrGamblebut no one is talking about banning or making them illegal. They are very common, easily avaliable, and affordable or free (I should add IMHO also destructive to society).
It's not a tough one. As an ordained minister, I can tell you that the moron should get his transfusion to save his dumbass life regardless of what he thinks he believes in.Quote: FrGambleBy the way your example, which is used in a lot of moral theology textbooks except the victim who needs a transfusion is a JW, is a tough one. Do you break his religious beliefs and give him one anyway to save his life or in respecting his religious traditions withold possible life saving treatment? I always though it would help to have some rational reason behind JW's teaching against blood transfusions, but I have never heard a good one.
Quote: s2dbakerYou're not a woman, are you? Neither am I but one thing I do know is that you can only get birth control pills legally through a prescription. Three months supply costs over $100 not including the doctor's office visit. For me, that's no big deal, for a single young woman working as a waitress at or near the minimum wage, that's a big deal!
Maybe so. But the pill is not the only means of contraception, nor is it necessarily the most convenient for everyone. There are diaphragms and condoms, which can be had without a prescription or a doctor's visit and are rather cheap.
Quote:As an ordained minister, I can tell you that the moron should get his transfusion to save his dumbass life regardless of what he thinks he believes in.
It's hard to say on a life and death situation. A transfusion does not have lasting side effects or quality of life issues, most times. but would you amputate someone's arm to save his life? Sometimes that's necessary, but if at all possible it should not be done without the patient's knowledge and consent.
How about simple CPR and other routine forms of resuscitation? Usually they should be performed. But what if the odds are the patient will wind up alive but severely brain-damaged? I'd choose death over that.
That is incorrect, Nareed. You do need a prescription for a diaphragm. I got one years ago and I had to make an appointment with Planned Parenthood, go in, get fitted for it (yes there are actually many different sizes depending on the size of a woman's cervix), was shown how to insert it, was instucted on how to actually use it, was told how to take care of it, got a prescription for it and had to go to a couple of different pharmacies to pick it up because not all pharmacies carry the whole range of sizes. The only thing you don't need a prescription for in that case is the spermicide that you have to use with the diaphragm which you buy over the counter if I remember correctly.Quote: NareedBut the pill is not the only means of contraception, nor is it necessarily the most convenient for everyone. There are diaphragms and condoms, which can be had without a prescription or a doctor's visit and are rather cheap.
Quote: s2dbakerAs an ordained minister, I can tell you that the moron should get his transfusion to save his dumbass life regardless of what he thinks he believes in.
Being an internet ordained minister means absolutely zero, apart from the fun-ness of being able to marry people in certain states. I realize you are trying to make a point, but religiously ordained ministers do spend a lot of time learning how to counsel and help people. Even if you reject the moral foundation of that counselling.
While I completely disagree with someone's decision to refuse a blood transfusion, he has the complete right to accept or reject any medical intervention or treatment that they wish to reject. It's when that treatment (or lack of it) is forced on another that it's a dumb-ass and morally objectionable decision.
You are confusing them with social workers. Religiously ordained ministers are snake oil salesmen who believe in their product. Nothing more.Quote: thecesspitreligiously ordained ministers do spend a lot of time learning how to counsel and help people. Even if you reject the moral foundation of that counselling.
Quote: HotBlondeThat is incorrect, Nareed.
I stand corrected. I must have been thinking about the sponge, if that is still around.
But my point remains, there are other means of contraception which are cheap and don't require prescriptions.
Quote: NareedI stand corrected. I must have been thinking about the sponge, if that is still around.
But my point remains, there are other means of contraception which are cheap and don't require prescriptions.
Hmm... abstinence?
Quote: AyecarumbaHmm... abstinence?
I define contraception as any action that allows sex between fertile people, but prevents conception. So, no, abstinence is not contraception.
But condoms are.
Forgive him Father, he knows not what he did
Yeah, lets play the victim game. The guy was homeless and
still he owned a gun registered to him. He goes and shoots
two innocent women, and we're wondering if we should
forgive him? Instead, lets be grateful the low life shot himself,
so he can't kill anybody else. Let god forgive him, thats why
he was invented.
Quote: rxwineNote for FrGamble
here
Well hopefully you know your own home crowd, so to speak.
Well, really. With the reputation that Catholic education has for quality, you'd expect a priest to play BJ, VP or even craps, rather than slots. For shame.
didn't get even the whisper of a convert. Its not like the
old days when a priest could say 'convert or else', now
they have to use logic and good arguments. Dang the luck.
Quote: FrGambleDon't worry you guys I promise gambling won't get me into trouble and I won't play the slots.
That's more like it.
BTW I don't recall if you ever mentioned what games you like to play at the casino.
Quote: EvenBobHe wasted a lot of time here, looking for lost souls. He
didn't get even the whisper of a convert. Its not like the
old days when a priest could say 'convert or else', now
they have to use logic and good arguments. Dang the luck.
You are a tough nut to crack Bob because not only will conversion on command not work with you, but I've realized that logic and good arguments are wasted on you too. :)
Quote: Nareed
BTW I don't recall if you ever mentioned what games you like to play at the casino.
I like to play Blackjack, Craps, and Video Poker (oh yeah, and the buffet).
Quote: FrGambleI like to play Blackjack, Craps, and Video Poker (oh yeah, and the buffet).
I've yet to decide whether the buffet is an advantage play or a negative EV :)
Lately I've gravitated more towards craps and VP.
Quote: FrGamblebut I've realized that logic and good arguments are wasted on you too. :)
When were you going to use those?
Quote: EvenBobWhen were you going to use those?
Nice retort, but I think the Padre was soft on you considering that you made it sound like he was History.
now now! He (nor his father) were true believers. Otherwise the serpent couldn't have killed him.Quote: WongBolet him be praisssssed.
On the other hand, well there's probably a snake bight there too.
I actually had a ton of witty remarks lined up but the guy freakin' died because of his believe in a God. It's just a waste.
Please don't hijack this thread, it's where I come for amusing fictions,
Not for something that has a foundation in reality!
Quote: WongBoInteresting, but this is a mathematical issue, not a religious one.
Please don't hijack this thread, it's where I come for amusing fictions,
Not for something that has a foundation in reality!
I saw "jugs" "biblical" and "mathematics" in the title, and at that point I knew I had to link it to the site somehow.
With the notable exception that a mathematician would never jump to such a ridiculous conclusion. "Math is unseen, religion is unseen therefor both are equally valid".Quote: FrGambleInteresting, mathematics is a good example of that which is unseen yet is grounded in reality and helps us to understand the world we live in. This is just like religion and faith in God.
Wow!
Don't know what that silent hug meant but I thought it was a pretty cool moment.
Quote: FrGambleHe stomped out his cigarette and without a word gave me a hug and went inside.
If you go to a really poor country and give a beggar
a dollar, it has the same effect. They're happy for
awhile, you gave them what they wanted.
cause his "love" ain't cuttin it.
Quote: WongBoi would really hate to see what it would be like if this god hated humans,
cause his "love" ain't cuttin it.
When we go through suffering, loss, sorrow, or failure sometimes we can feel like His [God's] love doesn't cut it. However, at those moments I think about those who love me most and whom I love most in this world. I don't doubt their love and I hope they don't doubt mine because my care for them does not shield them form all difficulties or struggles. My love and their love doesn't take away the problems of this world but helps us through them often with a silent hug. This is how loves "cuts it" or cuts through the pain, not by taking it away but by sharing it with me. If this is my experience of the most perfect love I know why should I expect something totally different from God who loves me.
Quote: EvenBobIf you go to a really poor country and give a beggar
a dollar, it has the same effect. They're happy for
awhile, you gave them what they wanted.
That is a poor analogy. When you share with someone a new way of looking at the world it can make them happy forever and is worth more than all the money in the world.
Quote: FrGambleThat is a poor analogy.
Actually, its not. A beggar wants a dollar and you give it
to him. The guy who approached you knew you were
a priest, and you gave gave him what he expected and
needed right then. Same as the beggar.
Quote: FrGambleIf this is my experience of the most perfect love I know why should I expect something totally different from God who loves me.
Like how god loved all those people in the movie theatre
who got shot yesterday. With that kind of love, who needs
hate. If thats love, who needs it.
Quote: FrGambleThe proof of love is not some invisible force field that protects someone from danger or death, .
Obviously. That would be too easy. Better to be some
mysterious force that nobody can prove exists. That
makes much more sense.
Quote: FrGambleI'm pretty sure we all believe that love exists and can probably prove it.
From person to person. The universe is obviously indifferent. How
could it be anything else.
Quote: FrGambleIt is far from obvious that the universe is indifferent, but regardless it's not the universe that loves you, its God who loves you.
But god is the universe. God is behind everything. There
are billions of galaxies, god is supposedly behind all of
it, watching and plotting and judging everything. The
universe is supposedly alive with god's love, if you
believe some religions. Its a primitive fantasy that
takes a hit everytime science moves forward.
