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Nareed
Nareed
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October 23rd, 2011 at 2:10:42 PM permalink
Quote: HotBlonde

Or children or mentally retarded people who don't understand the concept of being born-again by "giving your life over to Christ"? Again this was brought up when I was a Christian and again I was met with some flimsy excuse.



Very good question.

As to language, the common language of the Eastern Roman Empire was a form of Greek. But the language of the people in what is now Israel was Ancient Hebrew (which is quite different from the modern version). In any case, the works have been translated, re-translated and so on, and undoubtedly there have been distortions along the way.

Remember, too, that until the invention of the printing press, books were copied by hand. The chance for introducing errors was very good. This goes for all ancient books, including notable Greek Tragedies, The Iliad, The Aeneid, The Book of the Death, etc.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
zippyboy
zippyboy
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October 23rd, 2011 at 3:18:23 PM permalink
Quote: HotBlonde

The fact that Christians believe a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense to a normal mind is just hard for me to comprehend. ....... he died and woke up from being dead and flew into heaven, the Noah's ark story, the Adam and Eve story, etc., etc. I just find it crazy that people believe that this stuff ACTUALLY happened, ....


It doesn't make sense to a normal mind today, but back then people were ignorant and had to make up stories to explain the unknown. The smartest among them added punishments for NOT believing the made-up stories. And then they added tithing to avoid those punishments, and added military to help enforce the tithing, and so on and so on.

The stories were things the people with their limited knowledge of physics could comprehend (turn water into wine, part the Red Sea, rise from the dead, flooding of the world as they knew it...etc), notice our own fictional movies today have similar stories (living inside a Matrix grid, teleportation to other planets of a Galactic Empire, interstellar travel, vampires, aliens, etc) except our leaders today don't force us to believe them and punish us if we don't. Oh, zombies are as popular today as that Jewish Zombie was 2000 years ago.

I bet the average 4th grader today knows more about geography, medicine and nutrition than the wisest minds of 2000 years ago.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 23rd, 2011 at 6:57:19 PM permalink
Quote: zippyboy

...except our leaders today don't force us to believe them and punish us if we don't.

I bet the average 4th grader today knows more about geography, medicine and nutrition than the wisest minds of 2000 years ago.



zippy you gotta show some respect. We are standing on the shoulders of giants who without all of the help from modern technology we rely upon so heavily today figured out all kind of stuff about math and philosophy we use to this very day. They built things without any of our modern tools that we couldn't build today. I remember an architect student telling me that they have some theories but how they built the dome of the Pantheon in Rome is still a mystery to us.

What you also forget is that the armies of mighty Rome and all those in power at the time tried their darndest to squash these stories about the resurrected Jesus Christ. The miltary of the known world was against a small group of fisherman and disciples who had encountered something so powerful in the person of Jesus that they could not be silenced. More proof that the truth will always win out, even against military oppression, government persecution, and ignorant internet posts.
rxwine
rxwine
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October 23rd, 2011 at 7:07:04 PM permalink
The Romans were no better at killing roaches either.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
ikilledjerrylogan
ikilledjerrylogan
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October 23rd, 2011 at 8:01:27 PM permalink
Does it take any less faith to believe that in the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded (banged)?
Nareed
Nareed
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October 23rd, 2011 at 8:03:25 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

More proof that the truth will always win out, even against military oppression, government persecution, and ignorant internet posts.



Something won, sort of, but it wasn't the truth.
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FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 23rd, 2011 at 9:04:55 PM permalink
One of my favorite sayings is, "The truth will out." It has proven itself over and over again. IMO it proves itself again in the case of Christianity.

p.s. Dear Wizard could you please move this thread to the off-topic or free speech category where these discussions usually take place? Announcements doesn't seem like the right place. Thanks for your consideration.
rxwine
rxwine
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October 23rd, 2011 at 9:07:52 PM permalink
Quote: ikilledjerrylogan

Does it take any less faith to believe that in the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded (banged)?



One difference is, every science theory could change somewhat given some evidence either supporting or refuting some critical pillars.

And that's okay.

No matter how absent the proof, god could still be hiding somewhere. Not to mention, which god it might be.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
zippyboy
zippyboy
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October 23rd, 2011 at 9:14:33 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

zippy you gotta show some respect.


I appreciate your being here Father, to give the opposing side, but....um, what's the name of this thread again?

Quote: FrGamble

....a small group of fisherman and disciples who had encountered something so powerful in the person of Jesus that they could not be silenced. More proof that the truth will always win out, ...


Proof? Truth? Puh-leeeese. My belief is that Jesus (IF he existed at all) was a human carpenter who preached loving thy neighbor, along side all the other street preachers who had their own messages. He got to be too much of a threat to authority, was crucified along side the other criminals of the day, went into a coma where his lifesigns weren't readable by the primitive medicine of the day, came out it 3 days later and freaked out the ignorant masses, who created fantastic stories to explain what they thought was divine interference. No photos, no newspapers, only stories told around a bonfire like the Native Indians here in America. Story grew wilder with each telling until they were finally put to paper. I personally like how Moses himself is supposed to have written the Old Testament, making himself the hero, kinda like some bloggers do today, except Moses' stories have proven to have staying power. The uneducated people of the day probably couldn't question what he wrote since they couldn't read. Children believed it like they do Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, but after getting older, they realize it's ridiculous and physically impossible. Every schoolkid should know by now it's impossible to rain everywhere in the world at the same time, especially enough to flood the planet up to the top of Everest. Or that a man can shake a staff and cause an entire sea to part for long enough to lead an army of Israelites to Canaan. Makes a good story though. Way to go, Moses!

The Bible has been amended by every pope and king for hundreds of years to adapt it to his own agenda. And by "his", I mean having a penis, because women have been kept down throughout the centuries, haven't they? Is that fair? Mid-east religions (or pop culture) even make it a crime for women to be equal. Where is Jesus to protect his female children in Saudi Arabia?

My opinion is that with ALL the religions and beliefs of the world...if you guys can't get together and agree on things, they ALL lose credibility. In fact, if I can convert to a different religion just because I want to marry a hot Catholic, then my old beliefs must not have been very important, could they? How many times are we allowed to change religions in life anyway? If I don't like the idea of Hell, can I just switch to Buddhism? If people don't believe in Christianity's version of the hereafter, can they be saved? Or is it okay with you if they have a similar belief, just not Christianity? How about the aborigines of New Guinea? They believe in something don't they....just not Jesus? Sun God, maybe? Rain God? Is that okay with you? Is it okay that they fall under the mass hypnosis of the invisible man in the sky, just not your man in the sky, is that okay with you? Is it any of your business anyway? Is it your job as a priest to convert more people to the Sunday collection plate and add to the church's coffers? Isn't that the duty of every priest regardless of denomination? Isn't the Catholic Church the richest entity in the world and the biggest landowner in the world?

I remind you that this is just a post in the "rag on religion" thread. You can console yourself that I'll probably burn in hell for this.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 23rd, 2011 at 9:35:58 PM permalink
Zippy that is an interesting story you tell about Christianity, again I think I will take the truth and not your made up version.

I know this is a rag on religion thread so I will leave you to your regularly scheduled craziness, but your zombie line struck me too hard to be ignored.
By the way I believe that everyone who is seeking God is doing something wonderful. One important and unique aspect of religion in general is that it draws us out of ourself to focus on something bigger. It is intuitive in all people to strive to find meaning and purpose to this life and to not be pulled into the selfish tendices we all have. So yes it is okay to me that everone follows their own path to their God, I'd like to invite them to travel on the path I have discovered because I believe it is the surest, safest, and straighest path, but ultimately we are all leading to the same place. By the way this is the thought of religious freedom, ecumenism, and interreligious dialogue found in Vatican II.

My hope is also that because you are at least thinking about these things and searching for truth in some capacity that you are on a path towards Heaven too. So happy searching, but might I recommend a different thread to find the truth and a little more research on your history. Peace.

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